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Looking for Real Trading Method

  • #41
  • Jun 2, 2014 1:51am Jun 2, 2014 1:51am
Quoting Davit
{quote} Chicky Not willing to share my entire trading plan.I have worked hard at it. Its very detailed and has SL,profit targets,number of swings taken on each Quarter etc. Again I will kindly leave you alone to continue.I only posted because you mentioned luck thing...I think of trading like Chess.There is no luck in Chess Regards
Davit, I am most definitely not trying to pick a fight with you, as you have paid your dues here. But you mentioned chess, something I happen to enjoy.

Did you know that it is possible to play a perfect game of chess and still lose?

Edit: I feel I should elaborate on this. It is possible to play black, and defend perfectly, but white has the initiative, which means he has a tempo of +1. In the endgame he will be a pawn up, and that pawn will win. Again, not trying to pick a fight, but I really do enjoy chess.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #42
  • Jun 2, 2014 2:22am Jun 2, 2014 2:22am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Davit, I am most definitely not trying to pick a fight with you, as you have paid your dues here. But you mentioned chess, something I happen to enjoy. Did you know that it is possible to play a perfect game of chess and still lose? Edit: I feel I should elaborate on this. It is possible to play black, and defend perfectly, but white has the initiative, which means he has a tempo of +1. In the endgame he will be a pawn up, and that pawn will win. Again, not trying to pick a fight, but I really do enjoy chess.
JMN
You don't have to be cautious.Speak freely.Healthy discussions are catalyst for change.
By your definition Black did not play perfect otherwise he would of won.
I won lot of games when my opponents said "you got lucky"
Applying my strategy,planning,opening sequence,logic all inconsequential and mere chance.Every chess player knows that's just never happens in chess.
Even blathers are by consequence of opponent's pressure on the position or time pressure which is again result of opponents good game that required more time to think.
My approach to trading is its a skill either one makes every effort to learn and master or blame all failures on the market.
Regards
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #43
  • Jun 2, 2014 2:43am Jun 2, 2014 2:43am
Quoting Davit
{quote} JMN You don't have to be cautious.Speak freely.Healthy discussions are catalyst for change. By your definition Black did not play perfect otherwise he would of won. I won lot of games when my opponents said "you got lucky" Applying my strategy,planning,opening sequence,logic all inconsequential and mere chance.Every chess player knows that's just never happens in chess. Even blathers are by consequence of opponent's pressure on the position or time pressure which is again result of opponents good game that required more time to think. My...
You are a chess player then? We will take this away from the thread or we will derail it. As a trader, your skill is undisputed, I just always think of myself as black when I trade, and must coax white into a mistake. But white has the order flow, black has nothing. So the only way to beat white or at least draw him is to not allow him to see your pieces on the board. That is why I do not use stops.

I trade simply by adding orders in the direction of the trend and cutting trades that prove otherwise. It is boring, and it takes a great deal of patience. Do you play online? PM me if you do. I need to someone to sharpen my skill.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #44
  • Jun 2, 2014 4:39am Jun 2, 2014 4:39am
"Looking for Real Trading Method"

might help..!

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My Best Trade is Next Trade!
  • #45
  • Jun 2, 2014 7:07am Jun 2, 2014 7:07am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} You are a chess player then? We will take this away from the thread or we will derail it. As a trader, your skill is undisputed, I just always think of myself as black when I trade, and must coax white into a mistake. But white has the order flow, black has nothing. So the only way to beat white or at least draw him is to not allow him to see your pieces on the board. That is why I do not use stops. I trade simply by adding orders in the direction of the trend and cutting trades that prove otherwise. It is boring, and it takes a great deal...

good point about not letting the sharks see your stops. I have found that when I need to close a trade in loss, the circumstances are vastly different than when I would have set a stop, anyway.

My take profit I also view as a stop. I put them in only as an emergency because I do not sit here all the time(believe or not). When I am at the screen, It is very, very rare that I wait for the take profit to be executed. That does not mean I necessarily abandon the trade. I like to pocket my money and go for more, if the circumstances are right.
  • #46
  • Jun 2, 2014 7:14am Jun 2, 2014 7:14am
The market is going to go where the market is going to go. If you have good broker with true ecn model [that does NOT take the other side of your trade] look at only price action etc
All trends begin with the smallest time frame
  • #47
  • Jun 2, 2014 9:21am Jun 2, 2014 9:21am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Davit, I am most definitely not trying to pick a fight with you, as you have paid your dues here. But you mentioned chess, something I happen to enjoy. Did you know that it is possible to play a perfect game of chess and still lose? Edit: I feel I should elaborate on this. It is possible to play black, and defend perfectly, but white has the initiative, which means he has a tempo of +1. In the endgame he will be a pawn up, and that pawn will win. Again, not trying to pick a fight, but I really do enjoy chess.
Hiya Jmn, in my opinion all games of chess MUST end in a draw as the game begins with not one but TWO pairs of opposite colored bishops

I post in jest
  • #48
  • Jun 2, 2014 1:15pm Jun 2, 2014 1:15pm
Quoting shiva
{quote} Hiya Jmn, in my opinion all games of chess MUST end in a draw as the game begins with not one but TWO pairs of opposite colored bishops I post in jest

Actually There are two pairs of the same colored bishops... no, wait.....

Apologies; Mondays are fairly slow days, aren't they?
  • #49
  • Jun 2, 2014 7:50pm Jun 2, 2014 7:50pm
Rap and Shiva, both of you are idiots!

Yes, Mondays are slow, but I did take a trade, which is one more than I took all of last week.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #50
  • Edited 10:56pm Jun 2, 2014 10:35pm | Edited 10:56pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} good point about not letting the sharks see your stops. I have found that when I need to close a trade in loss, the circumstances are vastly different than when I would have set a stop, anyway. My take profit I also view as a stop. I put them in only as an emergency because I do not sit here all the time(believe or not). When I am at the screen, It is very, very rare that I wait for the take profit to be executed. That does not mean I necessarily abandon the trade. I like to pocket my money and go for more, if the circumstances are right....
Stoplosses is one major tactic in any trading method. My experience tells me this:

1. After a careful study of the charts we enter either a long or short position normally at right time. Many times our position size is so big that we need to put a stoploss anywhere between 5 to 50 pips.
2. We look at the charts to find a right place for a stoploss. After a quick couple of minute study, we finally find a good support/resistance maybe 10 to 20 pips away from our entry and decide to set SL there. So far so good.
3. Then we re-think about our SL and move it a couple of pips away, creating cushion for any spread widening. While doing so, we also think what if it hits this SL and then again resumes going back in our favor? This second thought tempts us to add few more pips to our SL. Once again, so far so good.
4. We again look at our position and the chart and find out that there is another support/resistance just a few pips away from our SL. This new discovery makes us think what if price hits this nearby support/resistance and resumes going back in our favor? No problem, we move our SL 2 or 3 pips beyond that newly discovered support/resistance. This goes on and on and on until we are not sure where to put the SL. So far good, but not so good.
5. We then decide to set our SL at any place (normally in relation to where our TP is in terms of number of pips) without bothering too much about the support/resistance where SL should logically be. We know that brokers are going to hunt for our SL anyway, no matter where they are, so why not take a chance? At least our SL is much less than our TP in number of pips. We are happy at this good money management of ours.
6. Then we wait and see what happens to our SL. So far so good.
7. Then we go to a forex forum just to check how others are thinking but find out that there is something cooking that we were not aware of. Gator is long while I am short. Chicky is short but for a longer term trade. Davit's analysis is completely different from mine. What do I do now? I am confused. OK. Let's go to Looking for Real Trading Method thread and see what people say about where to set SL.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #51
  • Jun 2, 2014 11:18pm Jun 2, 2014 11:18pm
Quoting Chicky
{quote} Stoplosses is one major tactic in any trading method. My experience tells me this: 1. After a careful study of the charts we enter either a long or short position normally at right time. Many times our position size is so big that we need to put a stoploss anywhere between 5 to 50 pips. 2. We look at the charts to find a right place for a stoploss. After a quick couple of minute study, we finally find a good support/resistance maybe 10 to 20 pips away from our entry and decide to set SL there. So far so good. 3. Then we re-think about our...
Bottom line for me is: No SL. Period. Ask me why and how?
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #52
  • Jun 2, 2014 11:22pm Jun 2, 2014 11:22pm
Quoting Chicky
{quote} Stoplosses is one major tactic in any trading method. My experience tells me this: 1. After a careful study of the charts we enter either a long or short position normally at right time. Many times our position size is so big that we need to put a stoploss anywhere between 5 to 50 pips. 2. We look at the charts to find a right place for a stoploss. After a quick couple of minute study, we finally find a good support/resistance maybe 10 to 20 pips away from our entry and decide to set SL there. So far so good. 3. Then we re-think about our...
Im sure everybody has gone through this scenario ,Infact it was my failing for sometime before I had to under go a transplant of my mind.this change in mind set was one of the hardest key lessons for me to undergo .ofcoarse its only one of many mindset changes needed to develop forward.the problem with this thought pattern,it actually tells us so much.looking back now ,the obvious one is the initial strategy .there's a lot of questions one can ask themselves if they are relating to this question of stoploss.

I would actually say that until the stoploss issue is clear in ones mind ,regardless of our methods you cannot move forward.it may well be that your method requires you don't use one but it needs to be solved to move forward
  • #53
  • Jun 2, 2014 11:30pm Jun 2, 2014 11:30pm
Quoting Chicky
{quote} Bottom line for me is: No SL. Period. Ask me why and how?
Why? How?
  • #54
  • Jun 2, 2014 11:35pm Jun 2, 2014 11:35pm
Quoting diceman555
{quote} Im sure everybody has gone through this scenario ,Infact it was my failing for sometime before I had to under go a transplant of my mind.this change in mind set was one of the hardest key lessons for me to undergo .ofcoarse its only one of many mindset changes needed to develop forward.the problem with this thought pattern,it actually tells us so much.looking back now ,the obvious one is the initial strategy .there's a lot of questiolns one can ask themselves if they are relating to this question of stoploss.
Few years back, I was designing layout of my house. I had limited space of 19,870 sq.ft of covered area. One of my wives wanted big bedrooms, one other wife was more in favor of a huge living room and banquet hall. 3rd, 4th and 5th wives had their own preferences. I finally managed to get them agree on one thing and the issue was settled. The point is, you resolve your sl issue once and for all. The best solution of this problem to me is Not Have One. Problem solved. The only thing one has to resolve from SL to NO SL trading is to find a why how our risk can remain the the same without the help of SLs. Once we solve this issue, it is gone forever.


ps. I had to replace all 5 wives of mine to resolve the living space issue. They all agreed on an expensive mass divorce.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #55
  • Jun 2, 2014 11:40pm Jun 2, 2014 11:40pm
Quoting AsadKiani
{quote} Why? How?
Why? = Because it is so confusing
How? = Just don't put them


If one is not reliant on a single trade but manages a portfolio of scores of trades spread on several pairs, all small and pointing at different directions using different timeframes, can trade without SL.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #56
  • Jun 3, 2014 12:00am Jun 3, 2014 12:00am
I think Money Management is the key to earn money in trading, even 50:50 strategy will work also, not need a myth strategy. But, trading with money management is a long process, it take long time to see the result.
  • #57
  • Jun 3, 2014 12:15am Jun 3, 2014 12:15am
Quoting Chicky
{quote} Few years back, I was designing layout of my house. I had limited space of 19,870 sq.ft of covered area. One of my wives wanted big bedrooms, one other wife was more in favor of a huge living room and banquet hall. 3rd, 4th and 5th wives had their own preferences. I finally managed to get them agree on one thing and the issue was settled. The point is, you resolve your sl issue once and for all. The best solution of this problem to me is Not Have One. Problem solved. The only thing one has to resolve from SL to NO SL trading is to find a...
Hi Chicky
I'll share part of my trading plan regarding Stop Loss

STOP LOSS
1 Decide how much each swing is worth example $500
2. Divide $500 into mini lots for multiple entries example .50c a pip gives 1000 pip distance
3. This allows averaging in orders as seen fit irregardless if previous orders are in red
4. Orders are placed as long as reason for trade is still valid
5. If conditions change loss is taken since orders are not all placed all at once this allows smaller loss
6. Once $500 DD is reached loss is taken.There are no exceptions

Its obvious that I don't place hard Stop but I do have SL
I also agree that SL issue is most critical.If not addressed properly then you are lost at sea.
Solve SL then mold trading plan around it.
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #58
  • Jun 3, 2014 12:59am Jun 3, 2014 12:59am
Quoting Davit
{quote} Hi Chicky I'll share part of my trading plan regarding Stop Loss STOP LOSS 1 Decide how much each swing is worth example $500 2. Divide $500 into mini lots for multiple entries example .50c a pip gives 1000 pip distance 3. This allows averaging in orders as seen fit irregardless if previous orders are in red 4. Orders are placed as long as reason for trade is still valid 5. If conditions change loss is taken since orders are not all placed all at once this allows smaller loss 6. Once $500 DD is reached loss is taken.There are no exceptions...
hi, I do something like this with a little difference, after opening a position and for each 10,25,45,70 distance from opening position I will add one new order in direction of first order and also instead of sl I add pending position with volume of 1.5 all total order but in vise direction. what is your idea about it?
  • #59
  • Jun 3, 2014 1:04am Jun 3, 2014 1:04am
Quoting saqoli
{quote} hi, I do something like this with a little difference, after opening a position and for each 10,25,45,70 distance from opening position I will add one new order in direction of first order and also instead of sl I add pending position with volume of 1.5 all total order but in vise direction. what is your idea about it?
If its working for you then its fine.I have never been fan of hedging.
Either you have confidence in your trades or you don't.
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #60
  • Jun 3, 2014 1:27am Jun 3, 2014 1:27am
Quoting Davit
{quote} If its working for you then its fine.I have never been fan of hedging. Either you have confidence in your trades or you don't.
Surely I have, but after many years I understand Forex is good sample for chaotic system, so everything can change in just minutes, in this way i manage my loss and also can reduce it by taking some profit from reversed trend.
the main problem for me is around news it cannot work good!!!
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