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Looking for Real Trading Method

  • #21
  • Jun 1, 2014 11:11pm Jun 1, 2014 11:11pm
Let me also add
Marty Schwartz took 50k loan and turned into 600k in 1year and never looked back.
Later won more trading contests then anyone.He used MA's as bases of his trading but after reading his book "pit bull trader"
It was obvious he was looking at relationship of cross over markets from bonds,currencies,commodities,futures and stocks.So it was not simply MA cross over or above X buy Below X sell.He was simply a discretionary trader.
Was he lucky? Was his system a weird accident in nature?No bottom line he got out when wrong and won more then lost.That's not luck that's skill and skill is measurable.
Regards
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #22
  • Edited 11:27pm Jun 1, 2014 11:16pm | Edited 11:27pm
Quoting Chicky
{quote} I am impressed. Have just this little question. Is it your performance or performance of your method? EAs always follow the instructions.
Its combination of recognizing good set up then deciding if its worth taking.
Not taking every signal.I guess I am the filter.
Thanks Chicky
Did not mean to hijack your thread.I just like real discussions without the usual fluff.When looking at system thread they are literary hundreds of failed threads.
Traders who after initial success failed and never posted again.To me this is evidence of lack of skill by participants and lack of motivation.
I still believe competent trader can make money trading against the trend and incompetent trader losing money going with the trend.
Real reason is lack of knowledge how price behaves.This comes obvious after thousands of hours watching price.There is no shortcuts in trading or onc simply pays for his mistakes.
I have dedicated patiently every waking hour to get better.Have read lots of books and continue to do so.
Small example of books on my drive.Just to show it takes lot more work then people assume.
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In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #23
  • Jun 1, 2014 11:19pm Jun 1, 2014 11:19pm
Quoting Davit
Let me also add Marty Schwartz took 50k loan and turned into 600k in 1year and never looked back. Later won more trading contests then anyone.He used MA's as bases of his trading but after reading his book "pit bull trader" It was obvious he was looking at relationship of cross over markets from bonds,currencies,commodities,futures and stocks.So it was not simply MA cross over or above X buy Below X sell.He was simply a discretionary trader. Was he lucky? Was his system a weird accident in nature?No bottom line he got out when wrong and won more...
OK. The point you have is, it is trader not the system. Now, the question is what in a trader makes him or her a Marty?
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #24
  • Jun 1, 2014 11:23pm Jun 1, 2014 11:23pm
Quoting Davit
{quote} Its combination of recognizing good set up then deciding if its worth taking. Not taking every signal.I guess I am the filter. Thanks Chicky Did not mean to hijack your thread.I just like real discussions without the usual fluff.
I want you to stay here until we completely squeeze you. Please go ahead and elaborate more the highlighted text of yours.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #25
  • Jun 1, 2014 11:40pm Jun 1, 2014 11:40pm
Quoting Chicky
{quote} I want you to stay here until we completely squeeze you. Please go ahead and elaborate more the highlighted text of yours.
I can only show on charts.
I use harmonics in conjunction with my Bollinger Band system
Multiple edges on my side plus some fundamentals.Don't want to be wrong side of impact news
Understanding overall price behavior.
I'll gave you real concrete example
Last month I shorted NU 4x average swing 10-15 orders from 8690 down.Why was I confident shorting it.Simply extreme fall of dairy prices in New Zealand which accounts 30% of NZ economy plus Bollinger Band sell zone.
You put everything together you got no brainier trades at least to me.
So I don't just look one factor but multiple and compound good set ups with aggressive orders.
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In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #26
  • Jun 1, 2014 11:43pm Jun 1, 2014 11:43pm
Quoting Davit
{quote} .............................When looking at system thread they are literary hundreds of failed threads. Traders who after initial success failed and never posted again.To me this is evidence of lack of skill by participants and lack of motivation. ...........................
This is one way of looking at it. There maybe excellent trading methods but the ones who practice those methods may not want to share.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #27
  • Jun 1, 2014 11:50pm Jun 1, 2014 11:50pm
Quoting Davit
{quote} I can only show on charts. I use harmonics in conjunction with my Bollinger Band system Multiple edges on my side plus some fundamentals.Don't want to be wrong side of impact news Understanding overall price behavior. I'll gave you real concrete example Last month I shorted NU 4x average swing 10-15 orders from 8690 down.Why was I confident shorting it.Simply extreme fall of dairy prices in New Zealand which accounts 30% of NZ economy plus Bollinger Band sell zone. You put everything together you got no brainier trades at least to me. So...
Without going into the technicalities, will it be right to say that you place trades based on 1) multiple technicals, 2) fundamentals, and 3) Trader's discretion? That will still be one aspect of your skills. The other factors that you may like to share could be your risk exposure, r/r, tp, sl, timing, etc. In other words, how do you manage your drawdowns and maximise profits. Then again, how do you control temptations and emotions.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #28
  • Edited Jun 2, 2014 12:05am Jun 1, 2014 11:53pm | Edited Jun 2, 2014 12:05am
Please, do not say until you completely squeeze him. If someone who is continuously learning and growing, which I believe Davit is one of those wise man, the depth of their knowledge can be infinite. For saying to squeeze him completely, it would being kill the goose that lays the golden egg

I am no mean a successful trader who is making millions of dollar in the market yet, from my 3 years journey of trading FX, I believe any system within the right period of time, if one can completely stick to it with dedication, right timing for preparation and set ups, one can surely be successful. It is our mind that playing the tricks on us.

I would like to contribute here by sharing this book that written by mark douglas - a valuable book about trading psychology.

Enjoy~
Dedication brings Satisfaction and Success.
  • #29
  • Jun 1, 2014 11:54pm Jun 1, 2014 11:54pm
Quoting Chicky
{quote} Without going into the technicalities, will it be right to say that you place trades based on 1) multiple technicals, 2) fundamentals, and 3) Trader's discretion? That will still be one aspect of your skills. The other factors that you may like to share could be your risk exposure, r/r, tp, sl, timing, etc. In other words, how do you manage your drawdowns and maximise profits. Then again, how do you control temptations and emotions.
Chicky
Not willing to share my entire trading plan.I have worked hard at it.
Its very detailed and has SL,profit targets,number of swings taken on each Quarter etc.
Again I will kindly leave you alone to continue.I only posted because you mentioned luck thing...I think of trading like Chess.There is no luck in Chess
Regards
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #30
  • Jun 2, 2014 12:00am Jun 2, 2014 12:00am
Quoting Phatori Gal
Please, do not say until you completely squeeze him. If someone who is continuously learning and growing, which I believe Davit is one of those wise man, the depth of their knowledge can be infinite. For saying to squeeze him completely, it would being kill the goose that lays the golden egg I am no mean a successful trader who is making millions of dollar in the market yet, from my 3 years journey of trading FX, I believe any system within the right period of time, if one can completely stick to it with dedication, right timing for preparation...
Phatori
True he can't squeeze me totally because I share what I want to.
I can talk about painting endlessly but once I start painting all my talk prior has no relevance.
By the way Mods don't like trading books uploaded because of copy right issues.Just don't want you to be suspended for doing good.
Regards
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #31
  • Jun 2, 2014 12:01am Jun 2, 2014 12:01am
Quoting Davit
{quote} Chicky Not willing to share my entire trading plan.I have worked hard at it. Its very detailed and has SL,profit targets,number of swings taken on each Quarter etc. Again I will kindly leave you alone to continue.I only posted because you mentioned luck thing...I think of trading like Chess.There is no luck in Chess Regards
Thanks Davit. We all appreciate your contribution and understand not everything can be shared in a public forum. You have all the right to enjoy fruits of your hard work. Thanks again.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #32
  • Jun 2, 2014 12:12am Jun 2, 2014 12:12am
I wasn't expecting such a good contribution like the one by Davit on very first day of this thread. He pointed out something extremely important, that is, a trader's mind and skills play a very important role in any trading method.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #33
  • Jun 2, 2014 12:13am Jun 2, 2014 12:13am
Quoting Chicky
{quote} Thanks Davit. We all appreciate your contribution and understand not everything can be shared in a public forum. You have all the right to enjoy fruits of your hard work. Thanks again.
Thanks Chicky
I am going to leave you with this paragraph from a book.It is very profound to me.
green pips
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In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #34
  • Jun 2, 2014 12:15am Jun 2, 2014 12:15am
perhaps it is better to study what the market does, rather than systems. For instance, there are times of the day when the market is more active, (read volatile) and days of the week when it is more so, in general.

I wonder what marty's -- Davit's -- a good trader's money management practices are.

i see Butterflys and Bollinger bands in Davit's methodology, but also a look at fundamental news changes. A three criterion
approach -- The third not being a "rule" at all.

After a while, any trader has a methodology he more or less trusts -- But is it perhaps the "third criterion" that makes the difference?

(nevertheless I shall have to review what I know about Gann butterflies and Bollinger bands).

This will be profitable since all my indicators are right now telling me it's time to stay on the sidelines.

Except, possibly the usd/jpy... that might merit another look in the US session...
  • #35
  • Jun 2, 2014 12:18am Jun 2, 2014 12:18am
I like this title and I like the thread

In my own experience and along my journey until I was able to live from trading I, as every other trader, made the same mistakes and followed the usal path as well. It took me a few years to figure out that the trading system is almost irrelevant. The key is that you chose ONE system and stick to it. The biggest mistake traders can make is system-hopping. Everytime you start learning a new system, just because the old one had 5, 10 or 20 losers in a row, you have to start all over again.

I truly believe that any system can make you money. It's just that general thinking about forex is as wrong as it gets. Once you chose a system you want to master, you have to collect every possible data you can. You have to backtest, forward test and then after some 100 trades you will have a database that tells you how to apply your system that you will be able to make money. When new traders ask me how to start out in the forex industry, I always tell them that trading is NOT about the system or finding that special entry- method. Trading is all about statistics! I tade different 'methods' and over the years I constently tweaked every method bit by bit to adapt to changing market conditions and make it more profitable. If I had changed a system when I thought it did not work anymore, I would still be looking for that holy-grail.

just my 2 cents
Learn from yesterday, live for today and hope for tomorrow.
  • #36
  • Jun 2, 2014 12:21am Jun 2, 2014 12:21am
Nice thread.

Plz let me know if u find a good trading method cause I trade like shit.

But honestly I believe in: testing and trading a lot and in every free minute to become better.

Maybe the most simple method is (what I'm trying to figure out): identifying correctly if a pair (market) is in a ranging or trending phase.
Not easy I know.
  • #37
  • Jun 2, 2014 12:22am Jun 2, 2014 12:22am
Quoting Rap Skallion
perhaps it is better to study what the market does, rather than systems. For instance, there are times of the day when the market is more active, (read volatile) and days of the week when it is more so, in general. I wonder what marty's -- Davit's -- a good trader's money management practices are. i see Butterflys and Bollinger bands in Davit's methodology, but also a look at fundamental news changes. A three criterion approach -- The third not being a "rule" at all. After a while, any trader has a methodology he more or less trusts -- But is it...
I agree. The first thing to do is to understand how this market works. Since a trading system aims at benefiting from market moves cannot be devised without first understanding how this market moves or responds to events. A demo or micro account and small positions should be good enough for sole purpose of understanding market behavior.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #38
  • Edited 12:59am Jun 2, 2014 12:35am | Edited 12:59am
Quoting Chicky
I wasn't expecting such a good contribution like the one by Davit on very first day of this thread. He pointed out something extremely important, that is, a trader's mind and skills play a very important role in any trading method.

I will read your thread, if you don't mind, but I will probably not contribute much. Hardly anyone understands anything I say, so I just don't say much on other people's threads anymore. However, in life, in general, a possible missing attribute of traders is professionalism. Most just think they can simply "want" to trade and therefore come into it without any skills. That is okay, since formal education for trading doesn't actually exist, but you have to attempt self-education rather than plagiarizing someone else. For the most part, in my studies, most people trade horizontal lines on the chart like it is still 1920. They might as well just use their computer to play solitaire since they are not using it to compute anything.

Allow me to propose just one piece of advice, on a general level. Goals that are written down, on a piece of paper, by your own hand, have a much higher success rate than goals that are in your head. If anyone desires to be a good trader, perhaps they should write it down? Most people remember things visually, so reading it will place the thought deeper into the subconscious mind and cause the mind to work with the body to achieve the goal, any goal, trading or not.

This is a study that explains the concept.
http://www.dominican.edu/dominicanne...chieving-goals

Good Luck on your journey
You cannot be extraordinary by being normal
  • #39
  • Jun 2, 2014 1:07am Jun 2, 2014 1:07am
Quoting No-Luck
Nice thread. Plz let me know if u find a good trading method cause I trade like shit. But honestly I believe in: testing and trading a lot and in every free minute to become better. Maybe the most simple method is (what I'm trying to figure out): identifying correctly if a pair (market) is in a ranging or trending phase. Not easy I know.
Would you give me your golden egg laying goose?

You don't find methods but have to devise one for yourself collecting bits and pieces of gems from all the trash in the world, then cutting and polishing it to perfection.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #40
  • Jun 2, 2014 1:38am Jun 2, 2014 1:38am
Quoting Chicky
I am NOT a professional trader but have deep interest in foreign currency trading. Have spent many years in this market and have developed and tested countless trading methods, also tested methods invented by others. I don't know how much and what is true in whatever is posted or claimed here. When I say I don't know, I honestly mean I have no means to check accuracy or otherwise of these claims. Therefore, all who claim 3% a year to 3,000% a year are innocent until proven guilty. However, everytime I read a claim about a system that is consistently...
Grab an EA, tell it to trade if price bounces off a couple of moving averages. In this way entries do not matter as they are mechanical. The moving averages represent trend and you can use any kind of trigger you want, RSI, Stochs, CCI, any oscillator will do. Then try to manage your entries. Magix gave me the idea of doing this on an M1 chart, which would never do in real life, because I am not going to sit in front of a computer all day watching paint dry.

In any event, this is an idea to speed up the learning curve of how markets work, in my opinion.

I have become committed to no stoploss, especially after that institutional thread.

I trade 1 dollar to 1000 dollars, broken up into 5 pieces, so that's 20 cents a trade.

I trade negatively correlated pairs and I do not trade against the swap.

Someone here gave a great way to manage risk. They suggested that you take the square root of the dollar value of your account. That is the total risk of the position. If my floating DD exceeds this, I trim back trades.

Make sure your trades are volatility adjusted to your pair if you like grids. A GBPJPY grid is much much different than a EURGBP grid. If you are a trade stacker you will find this out the hard way.

Give yourself and your method time to work. Do not system jump. A corn seed cannot produce ears if you dig it up every other week.

Spend some time on demo while you squirrel away a decent chunk for when you do think you are ready to give it a go.

I personally believe you should allow a system to have 10 pips of slippage on entries, in other words, do not scalp.

I am just giving out some general ideas to general people who are trying to find a real trading method. Talking to no one in particular.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
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