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Is anyone here an institutional trader?

  • #81
  • May 27, 2014 9:29am May 27, 2014 9:29am
Quoting sandy-pip
Skenobi/Jacob... Out of all the traders you worked with professionally, what was the predominate trading style, length of trade, were you all the same? Was there any style the bank absolutely did not allow?
I've seen all kinds of trading styles expect scalping, at least as the primary focus. It's just really difficult trying to make a sizeable budget making 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 pips on a series of dozens of trades a day. Not saying it can't be done and for those of you who make money doing that, great. It's just not something I saw.

Banks don't care how you make your money as long as you don't break your limits doing it.
  • #82
  • May 27, 2014 11:35am May 27, 2014 11:35am
Quoting sandy-pip
Skenobi/Jacob... Out of all the traders you worked with professionally, what was the predominate trading style, length of trade, were you all the same? Was there any style the bank absolutely did not allow?
In the Banks I worked in, there'd been no predominant style. Some are old-school price action guys like me. I know a handful of Ichimoku fanboys. Some guys were classical Dow theory chartists (those guys still exist). Some still like using MAs and MA crossovers. Only rookies use stuff like MACDs, RSIs, ADX lines etc until they realise it's mostly BS.

And I don't know a single Elliot Wave counter, and I have no doubt that Elliot Waves do work for someone somewhere out there...

In terms of length of trade, I think the Bank treasury management is predisposed towards scalping, although the Bosses wouldn't exactly say so in so many words. To put it in another way, I don't think the Boss would like to see his traders sitting around twiddling their fingers waiting for the "right time to trade" without having open trades in their books. I guess for the Boss, there is no "right time" to trade. His traders are paid to trade so by Golly, they damn well better pick up that broker direct line and start trading or making markets.

Different from retail traders. Retail guys have the luxury of waiting. Even "not taking a position" can be a position.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #83
  • May 27, 2014 11:46am May 27, 2014 11:46am
Quoting simonb
{quote} I'm pretty sure it would go against some kind of professional code of ethics ethics to be a member of a public trading forum if you were an institutional trader?
The local or regional chapters of the ACI (The Financial Markets Association) will have their own sets of ethical conduct rules. There aren't any restrictions on external associations in electronic forums AFAIK...

In any case, I think it's ok as long as the institutional trader is not divulging proprietary information (e.g. client details, client orders, order book information etc)...
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #84
  • May 27, 2014 2:15pm May 27, 2014 2:15pm
A lot of good information in this discussion. I would like to ask how institutional traders would take position in some FX crosses - such as EUR/JPY. For example shorting directly EUR/JPY or through major pairs - shorting EUR/USD and USD/JPY?
  • #85
  • May 27, 2014 3:41pm May 27, 2014 3:41pm
Quoting johnnycash
A lot of good information in this discussion. I would like to ask how institutional traders would take position in some FX crosses - such as EUR/JPY. For example shorting directly EUR/JPY or through major pairs - shorting EUR/USD and USD/JPY?
A pair like Eur/Jpy is very liquid and we would just deal directly in that pair. If a dealer quoted a customer say 100 million Eur/Nzd and got given. The dealer will probably get rid of most of that risk through Eur/Usd and Nzd/Usd or maybe even Aud/Nzd and then manage the more liquid Aud/Usd pair.
For two reasons
1) you are basically converting from illiquid pairs to more liquid pairs (I know they will be crossing more spreads BUT when you want out of a position you need liquidity)
2) You hide your real intentions (disguise) which is to off load the long Eur/Nzd position you were given. If dealer just tried to keep hitting the Eur/Nzd bid other banks would know because the EBS or Reuters Dealing machine gives up your name. It may be a big market but a small community of dealers and everyone knows everyone else. You wouldn't be able find a bid anywhere unless you were prepared to take a huge loss.
  • #86
  • May 27, 2014 8:49pm May 27, 2014 8:49pm
Quoting skenobi
Only rookies use stuff like MACDs, RSIs, ADX lines etc until they realise it's mostly BS.

EASY FELLA!

RSI Automated on 4 pairs, M1 chart, .01 lot size...4 days.

It works, I tell you!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: RSI1.png Size: 32 KB
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #87
  • May 27, 2014 8:57pm May 27, 2014 8:57pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} EASY FELLA! RSI Automated on 4 pairs, M1 chart, .01 lot size...4 days. It works, I tell you! {image}
Somehow I knew I'd stepped on a hornet's nest when I said it...

Good on ya, mate! All in good fun!
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #88
  • May 27, 2014 9:07pm May 27, 2014 9:07pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Somehow I knew I'd stepped on a hornet's nest when I said it... Good on ya, mate! All in good fun!
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #89
  • May 27, 2014 9:11pm May 27, 2014 9:11pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Somehow I knew I'd stepped on a hornet's nest when I said it... Good on ya, mate! All in good fun!

At least ya didn't attack stochastics...

This is since market open this week...

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: stochastics.png Size: 36 KB
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #90
  • May 27, 2014 9:15pm May 27, 2014 9:15pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} At least ya didn't attack stochastics... This is since market open this week... {image}
I think stochastics is in the etc somewhere... LOL
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #91
  • May 27, 2014 9:18pm May 27, 2014 9:18pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} I think stochastics is in the etc somewhere... LOL
Bastard!

Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #92
  • May 28, 2014 12:09am May 28, 2014 12:09am
Hi guys,

How big is actually position of professional trader per trade let see in EUR/USD or GBP/USD?

100 - 500 lots
500 - 1000 lots
1000 - 5000 lots
or maybe 1 yard?

just curious about how big their positions per trade ...
  • #93
  • May 28, 2014 12:12am May 28, 2014 12:12am
Quoting JacobFordFX
{quote} I've seen all kinds of trading styles expect scalping, at least as the primary focus. It's just really difficult trying to make a sizeable budget making 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 pips on a series of dozens of trades a day. Not saying it can't be done and for those of you who make money doing that, great. It's just not something I saw. Banks don't care how you make your money as long as you don't break your limits doing it.
Is there a pecking order amongst the market makers and are they the elite of the institutional trading fraternity?
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #94
  • May 28, 2014 12:14am May 28, 2014 12:14am
Quoting Magix
{quote} At least ya didn't attack stochastics... This is since market open this week... {image}
Amazing real statistic, Is it scalping?
PROredart is not PRO trader
  • #95
  • May 28, 2014 1:21am May 28, 2014 1:21am
Quoting traider
{quote} Is there a pecking order amongst the market makers and are they the elite of the institutional trading fraternity?
None that I've ever seen. Let's just put it this way: I think all prop traders have to wear a market maker's hat every now and then during the day. It's an essential part of something called "price discovery".

The only elites are the ones bringing in the money anyhow, any way.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #96
  • May 28, 2014 1:35am May 28, 2014 1:35am
Quoting dogol
Hi guys, How big is actually position of professional trader per trade let see in EUR/USD or GBP/USD? 100 - 500 lots 500 - 1000 lots 1000 - 5000 lots or maybe 1 yard? just curious about how big their positions per trade ...
We dealt in millions.

Example:
Counterparty A: Euro in 5 ?
Counterparty B: 34/35

Counterparty A:YOURS
Counterparty B:Confirmed. I buy 5 at 1.3634

Counterparty A just sold EUR 5 million against USD to Counterparty B.

"Standard" per trade size could be anywhere between 3 million to 5 million of the base currency. Odd amounts of any size are also dealt, from "tiny" amounts (like the retail trader's 1 lot size) to large sizes. Yard-size amounts per trade are unheard of. Usually sizes don't go any larger than maybe 50 million in a really liquid market. Any environment less liquid and the party asking for the 50 million quote would probably have to break up his order in smaller sizes to prevent price from running away.

There are no fixed contract sizes like in exchange traded futures.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #97
  • May 28, 2014 3:18am May 28, 2014 3:18am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} None that I've ever seen. Let's just put it this way: I think all prop traders have to wear a market maker's hat every now and then during the day. It's an essential part of something called "price discovery". The only elites are the ones bringing in the money anyhow, any way.
Aaaah!

Is "price discovery" a prized skill?
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #98
  • May 28, 2014 4:01am May 28, 2014 4:01am
Here's the study guide for ACI's Dealing Certificate.
To chagrin of the retail population it's all dry boring business/office stuff on how to calculate interest rates, price options.. etc info about all the products you deal in, with emphasis on preventing routine mistakes and conducting ethical practices.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf aci_dc.pdf   1.9 MB | 27,528 downloads
  • #99
  • May 28, 2014 7:07am May 28, 2014 7:07am
Quoting PROredart
{quote} Amazing real statistic, Is it scalping?
Trigger Range Dynamics.

No fixed T/P nor S/L. Measuring range on trends with the use of 2x Moving Averages and cost average trading on a 5 minute delay and signal for triggering.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #100
  • May 28, 2014 7:26am May 28, 2014 7:26am
Quoting Magix
{quote} Trigger Range Dynamics. No fixed T/P nor S/L. Measuring range on trends with the use of 2x Moving Averages and cost average trading on a 5 minute delay and signal for triggering.
PROredart is not PRO trader
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