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Fractals, ZZ & the Pissing Dog

  • #641
  • May 2, 2014 6:33am May 2, 2014 6:33am
Quoting crodzilla
{quote} It seems that bar lengths that exceed some pre-determined lengths need to be counted as 2, 3 or more bars, when storing the lengths of zigzags. This oversight could be why so many of us see lots of signals, when we really should not. More lengths will be pushed into a longer space. So, SET1 needs to include the increased bar lengths. So, that when these lengths happen in the future, the database has them. Carl
crodzilla & summicron,

I'm doing that bar length calclulation in my algo and not in the database.
The reason for that is it gives me more control of what is the "normal" or "standard" length using a parameter for it.
If you do it in the database itself you will loose that ability and destroy raw data.

G.
  • #642
  • May 2, 2014 7:39am May 2, 2014 7:39am
Quoting gg53
{quote} crodzilla & summicron, I'm doing that bar length calclulation in my algo and not in the database. The reason for that is it gives me more control of what is the "normal" or "standard" length using a parameter for it. If you do it in the database itself you will loose that ability and destroy raw data. G.
G, I've got a question. How come is the data in the database "normal"? It has same kind of over- and undershoots as the new, incoming data, doesn't it?

While I'm at it, I have another question as well, hope you don't mind When compiling the database, are the lengths taken as they are or you compensate the too-large-bar-overshoots in the database as well?

Thanks!
  • #643
  • May 2, 2014 7:59am May 2, 2014 7:59am
Quoting gg53
{quote} crodzilla & summicron, I'm doing that bar length calclulation in my algo and not in the database. The reason for that is it gives me more control of what is the "normal" or "standard" length using a parameter for it. If you do it in the database itself you will loose that ability and destroy raw data. G.
Oh, so if there is a match with the standard database lengths, then you go with that.

What if I create a second SET1 for lengths that are modified when there are "long" bars? I have plenty of memory to do that.

So, if there are real-time long bars, I can search the SET1-Long Bars database?

Still thinking about it...

Carl
  • #644
  • May 2, 2014 8:05am May 2, 2014 8:05am
Quoting candero
{quote} G, I've got a question. How come is the data in the database "normal"? It has same kind of over- and undershoots as the new, incoming data, doesn't it? While I'm at it, I have another question as well, hope you don't mind When compiling the database, are the lengths taken as they are or you compensate the too-large-bar-overshoots in the database as well? Thanks!
candero,

I thought that was explained in previous post...probably not good enough.... ;-}
My database hold real time data, without any modifications.
The algo is responsible for deciding if a long bar (pips wise) should be counted as 1 or 2 or 3 bars - based on a parameter.
That parameter should represent "normal" bar size for that specific TF.

G.

EDIT: You can use some ATR value and serch for bars that are double or triple that ATR value.
  • #645
  • May 2, 2014 10:04am May 2, 2014 10:04am
I just posted this in SteveHopwood's forum (stevehopwoodforex.com) as a response to some posts/comments there :
"...
There is nothing "Hidden" in my algo. Everything is explained, over and over, again and again, in posts and in my responses to gazillions of PM's in that FF forum. Some participants even contributed written doc's.

Since I'm so "in it" there might be some things that are left out, not because I'm hiding something, but because they are so trivial and obvious to me. I'm trying to catch up with those "little" things as time permit and explain them also.

There is one thing about this "Fractal" based system that almost everyone, amazingly, fail to see.It has nothing to do with math, statistics or algorithm. It's in plain sight on the chart - and if you can't see it - look closer and harder... because this one I'm not going to explain.
Take a good look at the standard fractals: not where your eyes leads you - but where "trader" entry/exit points will/should be and connect the dots.

BTW: I'm not the only one who can do it - there are others, "silent" ones, who PM'ed me with their same results, begging me to shut-up. They think that a good system should be kept a secret, otherwise it will eventualy fail. I don't share that thought, the market is too big, but maybe I'm wrong.
..."

G.
  • #646
  • May 2, 2014 10:21am May 2, 2014 10:21am
Quoting gg53
BTW: I'm not the only one who can do it - there are others, "silent" ones, who PM'ed me with their same results, begging me to shut-up. They think that a good system should be kept a secret, otherwise it will eventualy fail. I don't share that thought, the market is too big, but maybe I'm wrong. ..." G.
Really? Some have succeeded then, hmm. Understandably you won't give us the names, but maybe a number, how many successful ones are there?

Thumbs up for you for not shutting up, I share your opinion, talking about this here will not make it go bust next week!

Thank you again for your answers and explanations, it's a help one way or another.

C.
  • #647
  • May 2, 2014 10:44am May 2, 2014 10:44am
Quoting candero
{quote} Really? Some have succeeded then, hmm. Understandably you won't give us the names, but maybe a number, how many successful ones are there?
Do know that will make you more successfull ?
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #648
  • May 2, 2014 11:13am May 2, 2014 11:13am
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} Do know that will make you more successful?
Ferru,

It's different strokes for different folks, but do you know the 4-minutes-a-mile story? It was widely believed that a man cannot run a mile under 4 minutes, many tried and failed, which only only fed the myth. Then a hugely determined and motivated Roger Bannister broke that record, and in a short space of time many people repeated the feat! Call it the law of attraction or a reticular activating system or whatever, it's a big help for me 'cause I've seen much brighter minds than me achieving similar results as I in these months! Now I know it can be done, especially when they are when reading this thread

C.
  • #649
  • May 2, 2014 11:30am May 2, 2014 11:30am
Quoting candero
{quote} Ferru, It's different strokes for different folks, but do you know the 4-minutes-a-mile story? It was widely believed that a man cannot run a mile under 4 minutes, many tried and failed, which only only fed the myth. Then a hugely determined and motivated Roger Bannister broke that record, and in a short space of time many people repeated the feat! Call it the law of attraction or a reticular activating system or whatever, it's a big help for me 'cause I've seen much brighter minds than me achieving similar results as I in these months!...
The success you will have will be only due to your hard work.

No matter if someone reach already the top ... go for your own goal. In any situation, there's always a 1st to achieve it ... and this 1st didn't need anybody to tell him if someone else did it.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #650
  • May 2, 2014 12:12pm May 2, 2014 12:12pm
Quoting candero
{quote} Really? Some have succeeded then, hmm. Understandably you won't give us the names, but maybe a number, how many successful ones are there? Thumbs up for you for not shutting up, I share your opinion, talking about this here will not make it go bust next week! Thank you again for your answers and explanations, it's a help one way or another. C.
candero,

They are free to come forward, if they want to, but I'm not even going to ask them to do so.
2 of them participated in the previous forum. 1 of them posted here and another one got me on Skype and never posted.
Please remember that on the early days of this forum and previous one, every time I logged-in there was at least 25-30 users reading this forum, in every hour of the day (or night).


G.
  • #651
  • May 2, 2014 10:41pm May 2, 2014 10:41pm
Quoting gg53
{quote} candero, They are free to come forward, if they want to, but I'm not even going to ask them to do so. 2 of them participated in the previous forum. 1 of them posted here and another one got me on Skype and never posted. Please remember that on the early days of this forum and previous one, every time I logged-in there was at least 25-30 users reading this forum, in every hour of the day (or night). G.
Hi G,

Good to know that there are some other peoples having the same result as yours ....

Questions:

*) How do you handle the end of Zigzag that does not have fractal at that point ?
According to the information "The end of zigzag must have a fractal".
Do you "shift" the zig zag end or the fractal , like some of us did ? Or .... ??

*) Having extra calculation on the zigzag length in memory (not database) - depend on the height of each bar,
how much time do you need for the whole calculation ? Is it still about 3-4 minutes to predict the turning point ?

Thanks
Gio
  • #652
  • May 3, 2014 6:03am May 3, 2014 6:03am
Quoting giovanni4000
{quote} Hi G, Good to know that there are some other peoples having the same result as yours .... Questions: *) How do you handle the end of Zigzag that does not have fractal at that point ? According to the information "The end of zigzag must have a fractal". Do you "shift" the zig zag end or the fractal , like some of us did ? Or .... ?? *) Having extra calculation on the zigzag length in memory (not database) - depend on the height of each bar, how much time do you need for the whole calculation ? Is it still about 3-4 minutes to predict the...
giovanni4000,

1. Please point me, in the attached chart, to one ZZ that DOESN'T have a fractal at its end.
2. Calculation is done on each bar wether it's a multiplier of "standard" bar (parameter) and not on the whole ZZ.
If it is, than the algo count that bar as 2 or 3 bars for the probabilities calculation.
3. The whole next bar prediction process is finished well before next bar is created on M5.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusdm15_zz.png Size: 40 KB


G.
  • #653
  • May 3, 2014 6:53am May 3, 2014 6:53am
Quoting gg53
It's in plain sight on the chart - and if you can't see it - look closer and harder...
Quoting gg53
{image}


Hmm, probably not hard and close enough. I guess I'll keep looking
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
  • #654
  • Edited 7:21am May 3, 2014 7:08am | Edited 7:21am

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=7440112#post7440112

(it was live, for test purpose, not normal trading account. high leverage too. )
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #655
  • May 3, 2014 7:31am May 3, 2014 7:31am
Quoting gg53
I just posted this in SteveHopwood's forum (stevehopwoodforex.com) as a response to some posts/comments there : "... There is nothing "Hidden" in my algo. Everything is explained, over and over, again and again, in posts and in my responses to gazillions of PM's in that FF forum. Some participants even contributed written doc's. Since I'm so "in it" there might be some things that are left out, not because I'm hiding something, but because they are so trivial and obvious to me. I'm trying to catch up with those "little" things as time permit and...
even some one not willing to do hard work of looking back the charts with _____________
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #656
  • May 3, 2014 7:35am May 3, 2014 7:35am
It does happen infrequently that fractals and zigzag do not have the same endpoints.
If I recall correctly, the backstep and deviation parameters provide some level of hysteresis for the end points too.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: zz-fractal-3.png Size: 18 KB
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: zz-fractal-1.png Size: 18 KB
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: zz-fractal-2.png Size: 18 KB
  • #657
  • May 3, 2014 8:13am May 3, 2014 8:13am
Quoting gg53
{quote} Can you roughly double an account ? Trade-explorer is set up and waiting to start on next week open. Strategy: Little "edge" applied on Renko charts, statistical tools and "Out-of-the-Box" thinking on Risk/Reward & Money-Management. Wish me luck... G.

this is the key, it should be change with condition pf market if one can use it in his own way the result is amazing.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #658
  • May 3, 2014 8:13am May 3, 2014 8:13am
Quoting Xaphod
It does happen infrequently that fractals and zigzag do not have the same endpoints. If I recall correctly, the backstep and deviation parameters provide some level of hysteresis for the end points too. {image}{image}{image}
Xaphod & giovanni4000,

When building the database, counting bars and fractal within each ZZ leg, I consider each ZZ leg to be with fractal at its top/bottom end-point.

G.
  • #659
  • May 3, 2014 9:56am May 3, 2014 9:56am
Quoting gg53
{quote} Xaphod & giovanni4000, When building the database, counting bars and fractal within each ZZ leg, I consider each ZZ leg to be with fractal at its top/bottom end-point. G.
Hi G,

I am still confused. Can you please see the picture below. How do you take the data of zigzag leg, and put to database: Which one from the number 1) to 4) is the right one ?

1) Moving zigzag leg end from point "B" to point "C". So, the "valid" zigzag leg will be A-C. Now we have fractal at zigzag end (point C), and the zigzag leg A-B
is not valid anymore.

2) Moving fractal from point "C" to point "B". The zigzag leg is still the same A-B, and the fractal at point C is not exist anymore. So, for the next zigzag leg
B-D the amount of fractals is decrement by 1 (fractal at point C is no longer belongs to zigzag leg B-D).

3) We do not take the data of zigzag leg A-B, because the zigzag leg end at point B has no fractal. So we just take the data of zigzag leg B-D,
and the fractal is begin at point C.

4) We assume that the "valid" zigzag leg is A-D, because at point B, the zigzag end has no fractal. And the next zigzag leg will be : D-G (because the zigzag
leg end at point E has no fractal).

Thanks
Gio
Attached Image
  • #660
  • May 3, 2014 1:21pm May 3, 2014 1:21pm
Quoting giovanni4000
{quote} Hi G, I am still confused. Can you please see the picture below. How do you take the data of zigzag leg, and put to database: Which one from the number 1) to 4) is the right one ? 1) Moving zigzag leg end from point "B" to point "C". So, the "valid" zigzag leg will be A-C. Now we have fractal at zigzag end (point C), and the zigzag leg A-B is not valid anymore. 2) Moving fractal from point "C" to point "B". The zigzag leg is still the same A-B, and the fractal at point C is not exist anymore. So, for the next zigzag leg B-D the amount of...
giovanni4000,

As I said, building the database is based on the ZZ. I'm not moving it an inch.
I count the bars, register their OHLC, count the fractals in between and their spaces, and add one fractal at the top (for Long move) or bottom (for Short move).
That's it. I'm not moving anything or changing positions.

So, to answer your question based on your chart: the ZZ's are ABDEG.
AB - one fractal (top)
BD - 7 fractals
DE - 5 fractals
EG - 3 fractals

G.
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