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Can't Find the Answers of 2 Really Fundamental Questions

  • #41
  • May 1, 2014 6:25am May 1, 2014 6:25am
Quoting 4StarGen
Hi fellows, I'm an aspiring trader who's looking for answers... I've lurked the forum quite a bit, and also I send some PMs around in order to understand better who FX works, although everyone gave me their time answering my questions, I'd like to open up a thread in order to get more insights. Plz help me to understand better because right now I'm feeling lost I've see over an over again the same gist... " You have to find what works for you" or something like that. I can't really understand how such statement could be true. The market has its...
Yeah, the argument "you have to find what works for you" is the most ridiculous one I have heard. First you need to understand how the markets work, then you need to create a strategy that can capture profits on a consistent basis. And let me tell you this: the answer is not technical analysis.

If you want to find your way into trading, the best way to go is to ignore FF and to get yourself educated on the guys that are the big fish in this vast trading / investing sea. Soros, Buffett, Lynch, paul tudor jones,... those are the guys you can learn from (and none of them uses crappy technical analysis systems). Their systems are just based on common sense. Buffett evaluates companies and buys when they are cheap. Soros is just looking for feedback loops in the markets and the collaps thereof,... and so on.

Sorry for being such a cynical ass, but I have outgrown FF and these ridiculous systems posted here that are not much more profitable than a coin toss
  • #42
  • Edited 6:53am May 1, 2014 6:30am | Edited 6:53am
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} Mate I hate to say it but you're cruising for a broken account some day. Risk is the amount of your account you're willing to lose before you accept that your position isn't working. It should always be a hard figure before you enter a trade, not some soft value that you just add to as you go along.
On the other hand, how about this?
when the 8bar simple moving average crosses the 32 bar simple moving average on an hourly chart, it is time to close the trade.

That is an objective, effective way to book loss without having to to use a fixed figure. if you keep your lot size small enough, this will establish control without losing so much of your balance. (your equity stays the same, your margin improves, unless you are in the habit of making terrible trades one after another you should prosper).

There is nothing new or unusual about using moving averages to guide your trades. (If 32 bars is too long for you, how about 24?)
  • #43
  • May 1, 2014 6:49am May 1, 2014 6:49am
Quoting Custos
{quote} Yeah, the argument "you have to find what works for you" is the most ridiculous one I have heard. First you need to understand how the markets work, then you need to create a strategy that can capture profits on a consistent basis. And let me tell you this: the answer is not technical analysis. If you want to find your way into trading, the best way to go is to ignore FF and to get yourself educated on the guys that are the big fish in this vast trading / investing sea. Soros, Buffett, Lynch, paul tudor jones,... those are the guys you can...
Def not an ass at all, ty for stopping by.
Well I think you are right, TA is not going to give you an edge... maybe, it could be use at a tool, but not as primary reason to trade IMO...
  • #44
  • May 1, 2014 6:54am May 1, 2014 6:54am
Quoting eurotrash
{quote} The answers you've received in this thread so far are an example of "you have to find what works for you". People have given you various opinions based on things that ostensibly work for them, but of course you don't have to take any of the specified paths in order to be profitable. There are many ways to skin this cat, but many more to lose your shirt (or at least lose money). At the end of the day you have to consider that most people speculating in the markets are losers, and that applies to this and other forums as well. "Many" strategies...
I have to agree and disagree.

Disagree, for instance, Kanzler and I both suggested 4Star resources where he can learn market facts, rather than specific strategies.

Agree, that there is more than one way to skin the the cat, and plenty more to be skinned. Also, agree that many strategies can work at the same time. For instance, it's possible that a seller and a buyer both make money simply because they hold their trades for different periods.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #45
  • May 1, 2014 7:06am May 1, 2014 7:06am
I don't believe there is such a thing as two fly fishermen who fish at the same hole the same way with the same fly. Yet they all seem to satisfy themselves with their catches. I suspect that there are almost as many poor fly fishermen as there are poor traders in the forex. The number is more like three out of four than 95% by the way.

There is a challenge to doing either one well. Trading the forex is dryer.
  • #46
  • May 1, 2014 8:00am May 1, 2014 8:00am
Quoting dkrock
{quote} Ha, BINGO!! Guess what? You are almost onto the secret I am impressed. SO close Rap Skallion So close! Hey, when you do figure it out though, you don't keep the lot size small You max out on every trade until you reach your liquidity point and then that becomes your lot size for every trade This will get you from a few micro lots to 10 full lots in about 2 months. (10 cents to 100 dollars a pip) I am really interested in knowing if you make it happen!! Way to go! Oh, another thing. When you figure it out, get off the 1hr chart...
hey Rap Skallion, don't listen to this DICKHEAD!! He has some religious crest for his avatar and is not listening to some clever guys
  • #47
  • Edited 8:53am May 1, 2014 8:19am | Edited 8:53am
Quoting dkrock
{quote} Ha, BINGO!! Guess what? You are almost onto the secret I am impressed. SO close Rap Skallion So close! Hey, when you do figure it out though, you don't keep the lot size small You max out on every trade until you reach your liquidity point and then that becomes your lot size for every trade This will get you from a few micro lots to 10 full lots in about 2 months. (10 cents to 100 dollars a pip) I am really interested in knowing if you make it happen!! Way to go! Oh, another thing. When you figure it out, get off the 1hr chart...
Oh yes, THE SECRET! The secret MA cross that will make you obscenely rich in no time. Now, if I just could figure out those magical parameters...

EDIT:

Btw, it is a real pleasure for me being ignored by toxic newbies such as yourself, DKROCK
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #48
  • May 1, 2014 9:34am May 1, 2014 9:34am
Quoting dkrock
{quote} Ha, BINGO!! Guess what? You are almost onto the secret I am impressed. SO close Rap Skallion So close! Hey, when you do figure it out though, you don't keep the lot size small You max out on every trade until you reach your liquidity point and then that becomes your lot size for every trade This will get you from a few micro lots to 10 full lots in about 2 months. (10 cents to 100 dollars a pip) I am really interested in knowing if you make it happen!! Way to go! Oh, another thing. When you figure it out, get off the 1hr chart...

Thank you for your very kind words. I see what you mean about the increasing lot size. I have pruned a lot of dead wood from the bush , as it were. I shall try looking at some pairs at longer time frames, as you suggest. if this helps, I will switch them all. I know other very successful traders use the daily charts. I think 10 cents to 100 dollars a pip is a bit much, but I shall try.

The longer time frame will certainly give a trade more time to make good.
  • #49
  • May 1, 2014 9:38am May 1, 2014 9:38am
You have to find what works for you" or something like that. I can't really understand how such statement could be true. The market has its own rules, trader just can't find what work for them, they have to understand how market works... and once they do that, they have to exploit. Of course, different traders, could have different strategies, but I can't see how many strategies can work at the same time...

==> You already see the contradiction... The market does not have it's own rules, only traders do!


Another question that bug my head is how a begginner could find its way into trading? Plz don't tell me that he have to follow some premade system because IMO, this isn't the way to trade. Follow a recipe isn't going to make you a good trader, understanding the market does. In the stategies section, I can find 1000 systems, none of them have a solid fundamental reason imo, they are just a set of rules probably, made watching past events... Since many of those systems (if not 100% of them) doesn't work, why people continue to follow them? If you are going to ask me why I think so, well, if one trader have a winning strategy I believe he wouldn't make it pubblic and second reason is, if a strategy is a winning one, you could build an EA and simply take that trade over and over again, making you rich in a fer years... obv this is not that simple I guess Ty for you time guys and sorry for the dumb questions

==> If you put your ear to the market, you can hear a big sucking sound made by the money disappearing into it...
  • #50
  • May 1, 2014 9:39am May 1, 2014 9:39am
good questions & both correct.
here is the answer;
if you are not able to answer those two DO NOT Trade Live.

when you are able answer, then you are a trader.

PS: dont expect the answers here will help you. this is same thing such as "explaining economics to a kid". you should live & learn.
My Best Trade is Next Trade!
  • #51
  • May 1, 2014 1:41pm May 1, 2014 1:41pm
^ I'm not interested even in trading a demo account before filling my blanks... it would be gambling and this is not a good approach.
I didn't expect any specific answers but only some insights, and some traders provided them... now it's time to research on my own...
  • #52
  • May 1, 2014 2:57pm May 1, 2014 2:57pm
Quoting Custos
{quote} Yeah, the argument "you have to find what works for you" is the most ridiculous one I have heard. First you need to understand how the markets work, ..... and so on. Sorry for being such a cynical ass, but I have outgrown FF and these ridiculous systems posted here that are not much more profitable than a coin toss
LOL, I know that the statement "you have to find what works for you" is one of the most corniest ones doing the rounds..and yes, traders need to understand the market, it's not the other way about..TA can indicate the trends some of the time so it is not a fool proof strategy to depend on that..and as for the threads that er..bill the strategy of the author as a sure winner..don't even get me started, been burnt quite a few times as a beginner so not gonna fall for those, ever again..bleah
  • #53
  • May 1, 2014 3:56pm May 1, 2014 3:56pm
Quoting Custos
{quote} Yeah, the argument "you have to find what works for you" is the most ridiculous one I have heard. First you need to understand how the markets work, then you need to create a strategy that can capture profits on a consistent basis.
I think "find what works for you" is entirely legit, in that people have different styles and approaches to the market, some might do well scalping while others find the longer term easier. By "find what works for you" I don't mean look for a strategy that "works" (i.e. is profitable) for you... I think finding what works for you is a product of experience. You've still got to come up with it yourself, but you find that you're better at certain things than others, or they're more in sync with your nature.
  • #54
  • May 1, 2014 5:17pm May 1, 2014 5:17pm
Quoting Mingary
You have to find what works for you" or something like that. I can't really understand how such statement could be true. The market has its own rules, trader just can't find what work for them, they have to understand how market works... and once they do that, they have to exploit. Of course, different traders, could have different strategies, but I can't see how many strategies can work at the same time... ==> You already see the contradiction... The market does not have it's own rules, only traders do! Another question that bug my head is how...
Big traders have their own rules. They are the market. Little people here try to say they can win the game by pretending the rules don't exist (or simply being completely ignorant of them) and doing what they want is hilarious.
  • #55
  • Edited 1:02am May 2, 2014 12:30am | Edited 1:02am
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} Big traders have their own rules. They are the market. Little people here try to say they can win the game by pretending the rules don't exist (or simply being completely ignorant of them) and doing what they want is hilarious.
I am laughing as well..
If you are retail, just continue to buy when the small Moving Average crosses over the big Moving Average..
If you are a Big Trader, just continue to hedge those losing positions (and don't tell your boss)..
  • #56
  • May 15, 2014 10:06pm May 15, 2014 10:06pm
Quoting 4StarGen
Since many of those systems (if not 100% of them) doesn't work, why people continue to follow them? If you are going to ask me why I think so, well, if one trader have a winning strategy I believe he wouldn't make it pubblic and second reason is, if a strategy is a winning one, you could build an EA and simply take that trade over and over again, making you rich in a fer years... obv this is not that simple I guess Ty for you time guys and sorry for the dumb questions

4starGen, you are right your reasoning and question:

I'll answer your question base on my 5 year experience in forex...

Q1: I've see over an over again the same gist... " You have to find what works for you" or something like that.
I can't really understand how such statement could be true.

A1: This is true if you want a straight up in your face proof is the thousand of different system that exist on the forexfactory and other system. Because if it's false, you can bet... everyone just follow only 1 wining system...
Every one of the system share online the author REALLY believe he's wining...he's not dumb...if he see his account $ is not rising he wouldn't even try to share..
The main problem why it does not work for the author's fan follower is because of their trading habit, psychological, capital AND experience in the forex game.
Only the author can win with his own system no one else...

Q2: The market has its own rules, trader just can't find what work for them, they have to understand how market works... and once they do that, they have to exploit. Of course, different traders, could have different strategies, but I can't see how many strategies can work at the same time...

A2: The market have only buy or sell rule, margin, stop and limited order and stoploss. Don't complicated yourself that's the only rule that exist in market which is the rule to play the game. The reason why different strategy work AT THE SAME TIME because at ANY POINT IN TIME buy and sell are transaction SIMULTANEOUSLY. That mean when you enter a sell with your system .. SOME ONE ELSE on the other side is buying at the same time.. IF it's not by a system then it's your BROKER that's buying...your sell entry. So that's why you have zero problem enter the market or exist out the market because the broker liquidity is making EVERYONE STRATEGY entry and exit work.

Q3: Another question that bug my head is how a beginner could find its way into trading? Plz don't tell me that he have to follow some premade system because IMO, this isn't the way to trade. Follow a recipe isn't going to make you a good trader, understanding the market does.

A3: You FIND your way into trading by learning ABOUT THE MARKET. You have a great source like babypips website as my alway #1 recommendation for any new people. After you learn what is the market. THEN you can start creating or COPY strategy from other people..to BEGIN trading. If you are NOT at the level to create your own wining system because you lack experience then you STRAIGHT UP NEED to COPY other people system. You will learn something even if the system your copy is a losing one.

Q4: Since many of those systems (if not 100% of them) doesn't work, why people continue to follow them?

A4: The system does work it just doesn't make FAST PROFIT... people continue follow them because it's does win small profit. Do you really think people are that stupid? If a system just straight out 100% loss... they would just NOT WASTE their time...

Q5: if one trader have a winning strategy I believe he wouldn't make it public and second reason is, if a strategy is a winning one, you could build an EA and simply take that trade over and over again, making you rich in a fer years.

A5: You are right that's why you don't see any "easy fast money low risk holigrail at all on the internet". You don't know it now but having a wining strategy that can make you rich in a FEW YEARS is an AWARD IN ITS OWN MERIT. People have pride the pride of being better than other people. It's alway been that way.. even in sport you still want to be the best in your team. You might show some..but you will not show ALL.

This is what I have been taught. Your Learn from 1 teacher A, you MAYBE can be equal to teacher A but you can NOT BE BETTER than Teacher A because he NEVER teach you everything. However if you learn a bit here and there from MANY TEACHER B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J You will BE BETTER THAN all teacher INDIVIDUALLY. That's why you read many book, listen to many people advice, do your OWN research that it's outside the box.

With that said, yes there is definitely thing I hide/I don't want to share. This is the "bit of teaching I can give to you". Anything else you are on your own put in lot of effort.
  • #57
  • Last Post: May 16, 2014 2:56pm May 16, 2014 2:56pm
Quoting 4StarGen
Hi fellows, I'm an aspiring trader who's looking for answers... I've lurked the forum quite a bit, and also I send some PMs around in order to understand better who FX works, although everyone gave me their time answering my questions, I'd like to open up a thread in order to get more insights. Plz help me to understand better because right now I'm feeling lost I've see over an over again the same gist... " You have to find what works for you" or something like that. I can't really understand how such statement could be true. The market has its...
It's like that: they see most of us went long so they move the price down to hit our SL and vice versa.

It is best to wait for the price to be very low or very high and enter until you catch the beginning of the opposite move. You will be wrong a few times but later comes the paycheck...that's why anything other than swing/positions trading is much harder...not impossible but harder.
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