Alternative Sleep Cycles/Whats your sleep cycle? | Forex Factory

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Alternative Sleep Cycles/Whats your sleep cycle?

  • #1
  • First Post: Feb 17, 2014 12:12pm Feb 17, 2014 12:12pm
I was wondering if any of you guys have an alternative sleep cycle in order to be able to trade the most volatile sessions.

My friend should me an article about this over the weekend and it seemed like it could be good as long as you are still getting rested.

Heres some examples(note these are kind of extreme)
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So whats type of sleep schedule do you use in order to trade your favorite sessions?

I usually will stay up for the London open and then I will go to sleep till the NY open.

Heres a link to the article if any one is interested: http://www.highexistence.com/alternate-sleep-cycles/
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
  • #2
  • Feb 17, 2014 12:41pm Feb 17, 2014 12:41pm
I hadn't really given an alternative sleep cycle any consideration. I usually just survive on copious amounts of caffeine Will definitely read up on this, though. Thanks for the tips!
  • #3
  • Feb 17, 2014 2:19pm Feb 17, 2014 2:19pm
Looking at your profile I see you are young. So you will probably be able to endure shortened or interrupted sleep cycles for some time before you start seeing negative results. However many of us (like myself) are more than 30 years your senior. At my age, and really any age, sleeping/resting well, and thinking clearly go hand in hand.

If the session you want to trade is in the middle of the night your choices are (1) become a mole and never see the light of day. Be up all night even when your are NOT trading and go to sleep when the sun comes up. Again as you are young working on the night shift may not adversely affect your ability to think clearly. (2) Find a session that occurs during your normal waking hours and trade those markets. This way there is no major life or sleep cycle changes from what you already feel is "normal".

For me, I live in the Central Time Zone. That means that the NY sessions are the most logical and fit my sleeping schedule perfectly. I tried the London and EU sessions and just about went crazy after 3 months. I used to work the night shift as a cop and all those memories of long nights and even longer days (when I couldn't sleep because its light out) came flooding back and I quickly rejected any more of that type of lifestyle.

The beauty of this business is that it is flexible enough to permit you to design how you want to live. A regular job doesn't permit that. If you get the night shift and you want to keep your job, you are stuck.

My best advise...don't divide your sleep. Get all your REM sleep at once and don't break it up. If you chose to work at night, then sleep well during the day...if you can.
  • #4
  • Feb 17, 2014 4:42pm Feb 17, 2014 4:42pm
Quoting gspajon
Looking at your profile I see you are young. So you will probably be able to endure shortened or interrupted sleep cycles for some time before you start seeing negative results. However many of us (like myself) are more than 30 years your senior. At my age, and really any age, sleeping/resting well, and thinking clearly go hand in hand. If the session you want to trade is in the middle of the night your choices are (1) become a mole and never see the light of day. Be up all night even when your are NOT trading and go to sleep when the sun comes...
ty for your insight, Even though I'm young i don't think i could be able to adjust to something like this cause I rarely ever can get my self to take a nap. even if I'm exhausted, ill just wait till its time to go to bed before i get any sleep
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
  • #5
  • Feb 17, 2014 7:47pm Feb 17, 2014 7:47pm
Quoting TheDDReport
{quote} ty for your insight, Even though I'm young i don't think i could be able to adjust to something like this cause I rarely ever can get my self to take a nap. even if I'm exhausted, ill just wait till its time to go to bed before i get any sleep
I wouldn't discount my ability to take a nap "on demand", if I were you. It's all a matter of getting used to the routine.

The examples you gave are for advanced polyphasic sleepers and understandably daunting to beginners.

I've recently graduated to triphasic sleep from biphasic sleep. But due my being a married man with family commitments, this can be a little tedious to maintain, so I'll probably switch back to biphasic. The important thing is making sure your naps are as restful as possible, and that takes practice and finding out what works e.g. aromatherapy, ambient sounds etc etc.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #6
  • Feb 17, 2014 8:12pm Feb 17, 2014 8:12pm
I personally don't alter my living schedule for trading. That is due, in part, to the fact that trading is not my only investment or main income generator. A bigger reason is my trading style. I don't spend more than 10 minutes a day (total) in entering, exiting or altering my positions. That is not to say that other folks styles are better served by not altering their schedule to accommodate their trading. To each his own.
  • #7
  • Feb 17, 2014 8:18pm Feb 17, 2014 8:18pm
I live in US in Mountain Standard Time making trading during London difficult. I trade mostly H4 charts and set my alarm. My setups are visually explicit so if I wake up and see nothing I go back to sleep. If there is something worth trading I either set a pending order or enter at market, set stops and then go back to sleep. But I don't have some weird alternative sleep cycle so I can trade. As with others trading is not my primary income so I can choose to trade or not.
  • #8
  • Feb 17, 2014 8:35pm Feb 17, 2014 8:35pm
aah... to be clear tho, I don't practice polyphasic sleep in order to specifically "trade more". My preferred trading times are still the same as before.

I do it to maximize the benefits of sleep in the least time possible and to increase my waking hours for stuff that matter to me, like family and personal hobbies, and not just for trading.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #9
  • Feb 18, 2014 10:45am Feb 18, 2014 10:45am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
I personally don't alter my living schedule for trading. That is due, in part, to the fact that trading is not my only investment or main income generator. A bigger reason is my trading style. I don't spend more than 10 minutes a day (total) in entering, exiting or altering my positions. That is not to say that other folks styles are better served by not altering their schedule to accommodate their trading. To each his own.
I think thats probably a good thing because you know what they say, Trade to live don't Live to trade(I feel like sacrificing sleep for chart watching could be dangerous for your judgment). I also like the idea of only messing with positions for about 10 minutes a day. Seems like very low stress trading. I take you trade higher time frames like the day chart?



Quoting skenobi
{quote} I wouldn't discount my ability to take a nap "on demand", if I were you. It's all a matter of getting used to the routine. The examples you gave are for advanced polyphasic sleepers and understandably daunting to beginners. I've recently graduated to triphasic sleep from biphasic sleep. But due my being a married man with family commitments, this can be a little tedious to maintain,...
I think i could adjust to a biphasic type of sleep cycle by anything more than that is intimidating haha now that you say I do want to try some aromatherapy with a nap. I remember one time I got a message and the lady burned some stuff that made me so relaxed(and it wasn't reefer )

Quoting Winston Reed
I live in US in Mountain Standard Time making trading during London difficult. I trade mostly H4 charts and set my alarm. My setups are visually explicit so if I wake up and see nothing I go back to sleep. If there is something worth trading I either set a pending order or enter at market, set stops and then go back to sleep. But I don't have some weird alternative sleep cycle so I can trade. As with others trading is not my primary income so I can choose to trade or not.
Iv noticed a couple guys from the Trading Made Simple prefer to trade 4h charts like this as well, just waking up to see the candle close and then going back to sleep. I don't know what type of cycle that would be but it seems like it would be the easiest way to see the whole chart play out with out having to spend to much screen time.
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
  • #10
  • Feb 18, 2014 10:58am Feb 18, 2014 10:58am
Quoting TheDDReport
...Iv noticed a couple guys from the Trading Made Simple prefer to trade 4h charts like this as well, just waking up to see the candle close and then going back to sleep...
This essentially guarantees that you will only receive 4 hrs or less sleep in one shot. Unless you are one of those fortunate people that can immediately enter REM sleep when your head hits the pillow I doubt you will find it restful...and by the end of the week you will be exhausted...take it from one who did that, and didn't do well.

The issue with sleep (as I'm sure you already know) is getting enough REM sleep to feel rested...the key issue with this is how long it takes YOU to reach the phase of sleep and how long you stay in it. Most documentation states we need at least 4-6 hrs of continuous REM sleep...that's CONTINUOUS. If you interrupt it you must start over...

Most of us take at least 2-3 hrs to enter this phase. and if you are checking charts every 4 hrs you will find even though you sleep...you do not rest. By about the 3rd night you will NOT be thinking clearly.
  • #11
  • Feb 18, 2014 11:30am Feb 18, 2014 11:30am
Quoting gspajon
{quote} This essentially guarantees that you will only receive 4 hrs or less sleep in one shot. Unless you are one of those fortunate people that can immediately enter REM sleep when your head hits the pillow I doubt you will find it restful...and by the end of the week you will be exhausted...take it from one who did that, and didn't do well. The issue with sleep (as I'm sure you already know) is getting enough REM sleep to feel rested...the key issue with this is how long it takes YOU to reach the phase of sleep and how long you stay in it. Most...

Iv been reading that a lot that it takes 2-3 hours to enter REM sleep but I wonder if after a couple weeks your body would adjust to how it was thousands of years ago when it was more primal so to speak. I feel like wild animals/primal humans would rarely ever sleep for long extended periods of time and likely use a cycle like the ones posted above. Wild animals are also very precise and specific when and how they hunt(like traders should be when looking for trades!), mate, travel, Sleep, look for water so I wouldn't think they are sleep deprived their whole life since every decision is very calculated(owls hunt at night, animals only mate during certain seasons, Birds fly south for the winter, etc) but who knows they are basically staving all the time living meal to meal so I could be wrong

In other words is this 2-3 hours required to enter REM sleep sort of an evolutionary step back we have developed since life has become so easy for us(we aren't even in the food chain any more) and if this is the case would't it be almost more "natural" to use one of these alternative sleep cycles?

BAH! Who knows?
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
  • #12
  • Feb 18, 2014 11:40am Feb 18, 2014 11:40am
Going to get a little crazy here....
They say market moves on emotions. peoples fear and greed. Or instinct of free and greed. This is how the wild works too I think. It runs off animals fear and greed instincts. The animal that trembles in fear while running will get eating and the tiger that gets to greedy with a herd of elephants will get trampled.


That being said IF animals did practice these type of sleeping habits(i do not know for certain, I'm not a scientist) does this allow them to thrive more instinctively in their fear driven environment? (The Gazelle would probably get eaten in his sleep if he slept for 9 hours like some folks! lol instead he practices a more broken up sleeping pattern in order to not be a sitting duck for too long)

If so do you think this could help a trader thrive more instinctively in his fear driven environment?(missing trades while you sleep)
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
  • #13
  • Feb 19, 2014 3:34am Feb 19, 2014 3:34am
Quoting TheDDReport
I was wondering if any of you guys have an alternative sleep cycle in order to be able to trade the most volatile sessions. My friend should me an article about this over the weekend and it seemed like it could be good as long as you are still getting rested. Heres some examples(note these are kind of extreme) {image} {image} So whats type of sleep schedule do you use in order to trade your favorite sessions? I usually will stay up for the London open and then I will go to sleep till the NY open. Heres a link to the article if any one is interested:...
Interesting thread DDreport

Sleep is very important for the mind. I've been in every cycle you could think of in my trading "career" including the "no sleep much coffee, I'll sleep when I'm dead" cycle. These days after work I often have a "nanna nap" for a couple of hours or so before the London session starts so i can stay up for the start of the US session. I try and get my 8 hours but usually I'm around 5 hours (12am - 5am).

I used to sleep with the market when I wasn't working, meaning I would just sleep when I felt like it and often awake during the night until crazy hours baby sitting trades, then sleeping during the best part of the day, as London session in Australia starts at around dinner time here in Australia. US session around midnight.

Over time, it really did a number on me in the end. I became "out of sync" with the real world. I relly wouldn't recommend adjusting normal sleeping patterns to accommodate the market hours. You should adapt your trading hours/ strategy to fit with what we're actually all here for, "the real world".

Oh man those coffee nights turned into bourbon nights turned into crazy nights... Just insane..,. I've since used longer term charts where I don't need to sit and watch trades minute by minute anymore to fit in with my daily schedule. Each to their own though, I would never have been patient or comfortable enough doing it this way a couple of years ago.
Howlin' at the Moon on the Roof
  • #14
  • Feb 19, 2014 3:45pm Feb 19, 2014 3:45pm
Quoting Wolf_Wicked
{quote} Interesting thread DDreport Sleep is very important for the mind. I've been in every cycle you could think of in my trading "career" including the "no sleep much coffee, I'll sleep when I'm dead" cycle. These days after work I often have a "nanna nap" for a couple of hours or so before the London session starts so i can stay up for the start of the US session. I try and get my 8 hours but usually I'm around 5 hours (12am - 5am). I used to sleep with the market when I wasn't working, meaning I would just sleep when I felt like it and often...

That is one thing I think would be a problem with trying to adjust to trade London session as a US trader, your schedule would be the opposite of everyone around you haha

I also think its very important as humans to be awake with the sun. I doubt its true but I think people who spend a majority of their time while the sun is up/in the sunlight are less likely to be depressed than some one who spends a majority of their waking time in darkness.

Ive never tried to have a schedule like this for trading but I remember 4 years ago when I would play world of warcraft all night long I basically had a reverse schedule and boy did I feel like crap some days. I noticed that whenever I would stay up till the sun came back up I would start to feel sick almost every time. I quickly learned that staying up all night was not for me.

Now a days I go to bed at 1-2 AM and wake up @ 7 or 8. as long as I get about 5 or 6 hours I usually won't even feel tiered when I wake up the next morning.
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
  • #15
  • Feb 19, 2014 4:10pm Feb 19, 2014 4:10pm
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...SH20_OU01_.jpg

I quit trying to stay up all night to trade the London session, now I just wake up early (0600 - not really so early) to catch NY open and since I am trading mostly US equity options, that's all I need to do. I usually get all I need for market-related screen time at an hour around the the NY open and again the same around the NY close.

Anyway, the attached book ref is a very interesting read.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #16
  • Feb 19, 2014 4:31pm Feb 19, 2014 4:31pm
Quoting The Fool
{image} I quit trying to stay up all night to trade the London session, now I just wake up early (0600 - not really so early) to catch NY open and since I am trading mostly US equity options, that's all I need to do. I usually get all I need for market-related screen time at an hour around the the NY open and again the same around the NY close. Anyway, the attached book ref is a very interesting read.

ty for sharing that book. it looks very interesting, I think I'm going to have to give it a read some time
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
  • #17
  • Feb 19, 2014 9:02pm Feb 19, 2014 9:02pm
LOL..
How very topical that the following article turned up on HuffPost:

20 Songs To Help You Fall Asleep
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #18
  • Last Post: Feb 19, 2014 10:57pm Feb 19, 2014 10:57pm
Quoting skenobi
LOL.. How very topical that the following article turned up on HuffPost: 20 Songs To Help You Fall Asleep
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
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