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In FOREX, is 10% return per month good enough?

  • #141
  • Feb 2, 2014 5:49am Feb 2, 2014 5:49am
Yes, 10% per month is attainable. It is more difficult if you think like a wage earner though.

Stop thinking like a wage earner.

10% per month is 120% per year.

To put it on a shorter time frame, if you made 0% this month, but you make 20% in February, then you made 10% per month. This is what trading is.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #142
  • Feb 5, 2014 8:23am Feb 5, 2014 8:23am
Quoting Michael698
hello, Robin34 you are wrong and so is your math. with $1000 account to make 10% or $100. with the above 50%/50% win/loss and 1:2 risk/reward, and risking 2% or $20 a trading strategy with 20 pip stop loss with a $20 risk each pip equals $1 or 1 mini position size if the trade frequency is 3/week or 12 per month. 6 wins at $40 each equals $240 and 6 losers at -$20 each equals $120. net $240 -$120 = $120 per month I challenge you to examine this mathematically and logically. correct me if I am wrong
no , you need to read it again ,we are not talking about loosing or risk / reward .

god...what are you talking about ?!

read it again please.
  • #143
  • Feb 5, 2014 11:23am Feb 5, 2014 11:23am
Quoting Patience
{quote} Pass the spliff on bro. You're hogging it.
Yeah, we sure need to pass it around and as to the er..wishful thinker, as requested, quit hogging it..
  • #144
  • Feb 6, 2014 12:34am Feb 6, 2014 12:34am
Yea 10% is attainable but be flexible, you may make 50% in Jan and nothing for the next six months. Eliminate the time targets and trade freely. It will be much easier for you.
  • #145
  • Feb 6, 2014 2:26am Feb 6, 2014 2:26am
Quoting Forexnuts
{quote} Yeah, we sure need to pass it around and as to the er..wishful thinker, as requested, quit hogging it..
He is not wishful thinking IMO. He just does not understand the nature of the question he asked.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #146
  • Feb 6, 2014 12:12pm Feb 6, 2014 12:12pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} He is not wishful thinking IMO. He just does not understand the nature of the question he asked.
LOL, Frankly, don't care if he ever gets to point zero and closer to understanding the question..it's my turn to hog it and I'm just in the mood for some..
  • #147
  • Feb 6, 2014 12:41pm Feb 6, 2014 12:41pm
Quoting Forexnuts
{quote} LOL, Frankly, don't care if he ever gets to point zero and closer to understanding the question..it's my turn to hog it and I'm just in the mood for some..
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #148
  • Feb 6, 2014 8:34pm Feb 6, 2014 8:34pm
Quoting sgpbufet
{quote} i think 10% per year is very good. it is my understandiong anythign above 20-25% per year consistent you are better than most of teh best fund managers in the world. 10% per month over many years is crazy and not realistic imho better off playing lottery.
A retail trader can do better than the hedge fund manager. The fund manager has hundreds of millions to trade so slippage and liquidity comes into play and he has to scale in and scale out of positions. The fund manager is risk adverse with other peoples money many of them only risk 0.5 % of their account so their max draw down is 5%. Many retail trader risk 2% of their account with a 20% max draw down. So if both were trading exactly the same the retail trader makes 4 times a much but also risk a draw down of 4 times as much.

The hedge fund trader aims for 20% to 50% per year with goals of 3% to 5% per month. Some retail traders goals are 8 to 10% per month average knowing they will have losing months and months much greater than 10%.
If you are risk adverse and 30% per year is good for you then trade like the fund managers and risk only 0.5% of you account per trade.
You will have less chance of blowing up your account. Play around with the formula I shared with you in my previous post.
  • #149
  • Feb 6, 2014 8:53pm Feb 6, 2014 8:53pm
Quoting Robin34
well, i have read many thread and forgive me if i sound sort of disappointing , but i simply can not help it ! i think what you expect from forex is essentially impossible ! simple as that ! you expect to gain some profit but let's take a look at this matter mathematically. i am not talking about winning or losing 2 or 20 positions , i am talking about gaining and winning A continuing and constantly percentage of profit . let's say for example 10 % profit per month that is to say 200 % profit annually ! i am sure many of you guys expecting much...
With a $1000 account you can trade a mini where 1 pip is $1. So you only need to make 100 pips per month for a 10% gain. Not the 50 pips per day. If 1000 pips equal $100 dollars then each pip = $0.10. You are then only risking 0.2% per trade on a $1000 account.
  • #150
  • Feb 9, 2014 10:45am Feb 9, 2014 10:45am
As someone who has been trading for a long while now - yes, it's very possible to have a much higher profit margin as a retail trader instead of a hedge fund manager. 10% per month is do-able, but consistently do-able is another story. As Michael said above me, every time you risk more and more of your account, you are prone to increased drawdowns. Seeking 10% a month is quite a lot. If you are sure you have a reliable, well-tested(!!) trading strategy that won't give you such a drawdown that you can't recover from, go for your goal.

Here is an honest piece of advice though. Please make sure you know your strategy works. Trading the same plan for a week isn't enough time to confirm you have a statistical edge. A month isn't enough time. Maybe a year is, but I can't say. A well-tested system involves taking 1,000s of trades before coming to any sort of definite conclusion. 95% of traders are unsuccessful for a reason. It isn't because they aren't bright or don't work hard enough. One important reason is because they don't bother making sure what they are trading works.

​Treat trading like science. Form a hypothesis, test it well, then come to a statistical, verifiable conclusion. Expect professionals to provide you with a verified system. Too many people trade strategies that simply don't work for longer than a week. They do well for a little while, then blow their accounts. Don't be one of those people.

Best,
ForexZen
  • #151
  • Feb 12, 2014 12:31am Feb 12, 2014 12:31am
10% monthly profit is the perfect goal for all traders
  • #152
  • Feb 12, 2014 4:19am Feb 12, 2014 4:19am
Quoting Danny Maina
Yea 10% is attainable but be flexible, you may make 50% in Jan and nothing for the next six months. Eliminate the time targets and trade freely. It will be much easier for you.

Agree with Maina here.
  • #153
  • Feb 12, 2014 5:49am Feb 12, 2014 5:49am
10% is good only if you are playing with small lots... so you would have to make more pips to get the 10%, but this decreasing risk of losing all at once. Anyone can make 10% a month with big risk, you can make 10% a month with only a few pips, but then you can also lose all your account with a few pips.

All these percentage talks are rookie talk... worry about the system, lot size, account size... Then the percentage will come naturally with how much ever you are comfortable to handle the risk of that percentage.

I made about 700% in 6-8 month, this with a medium to high risk account. 1:50 with lot sizes starting from 0.05 going up to 0.45, with starting account of £500 or £600. But have a max drawdown of 31% (if i remember correctly).

You see percentages are illusion, because even i made 700%, it had a big loss which was hard to take even on demo account. But if i decrease lot size i would of comfortably made 10% a month with extremely low draw down. So dont worry about percentage, just be a good trader.
  • #154
  • Feb 12, 2014 12:53pm Feb 12, 2014 12:53pm
Exactly, instead of trying to work out virtual fortunes of what you "could" make, it makes better sense to concentrate on trading and netting pips consistently while keeping DD to the bare minimum..
  • #155
  • Feb 12, 2014 1:53pm Feb 12, 2014 1:53pm
It would be great if you can make 10% per month doing anything, Forex included. The question is, how many months in a row can you consistently make 10%? (And how do you know you will be able to do that?)
  • #156
  • Feb 12, 2014 3:54pm Feb 12, 2014 3:54pm
10% per month are you crazy? That would be over 100% per year.

The best of the best funds make about 20-30% per year
Forex is a losers game.
  • #157
  • Feb 12, 2014 4:32pm Feb 12, 2014 4:32pm
10% a month compounded for 5 years your fund will stand at £30,000 go for it son, target yourself 0.5 to 1% a day put in your hours, obtainable definitely I get it and a little more month in month out .............don't agree with losing months you have mastered your trade or you have not

Summer doldrums and all the nonsense about slow months ect absolute BS you keep your discipline and patience or you don't simple .........if you do there is no loseing week let alone month
  • #158
  • Feb 13, 2014 5:32pm Feb 13, 2014 5:32pm
Quoting Michael698
{quote} With a $1000 account you can trade a mini where 1 pip is $1. So you only need to make 100 pips per month for a 10% gain. Not the 50 pips per day. If 1000 pips equal $100 dollars then each pip = $0.10. You are then only risking 0.2% per trade on a $1000 account.
hi michael698 , interesting to have some basic calculation that mean something ....at last ! thanks, but ...

well , considering that you have got leverage 10 by default ! we are not going to start the leverage issues now but let's not forget that if you are going to use the advantages of 10 times leverage you are risking you equity 10 times more !

if you open a position by 10000 $ and your equity is 1000$ , you need to risk nothing more than 2% of your real equity that is to say here is 20 $ .

so ask yourself what if you take a wrong direction and your stop hit ? i finish by this , if your stop hits only 20 pips , then you have lost 20 dollar that means 2 % of your 1000$ equity !

don't you think that the market fluctuation is way more than 20 pips ? let me say that 200 or even 300 pips in a day is a usual fluctuation in forex world .you can find many fact on this ,, just follow chart prices .

so i think probably this way one will lose 2 % of his equity in a blink and so on.

therefore i am against the high leverage .

i look forward if you have anything to say .
  • #159
  • Feb 13, 2014 8:27pm Feb 13, 2014 8:27pm
Hi Robin34, True that 20 pips can go in a blink of the eye in high volatility times in the market. I have a rule to exit and not trade around news events that can move the market more than 15 pips. My trading system uses a 20 pip stop loss. That is why I used it in the examples posted.

I trade with a 2% risk per trade. Yes, that is leverage of 10 times where I use higher leverage is opening multiple trades. In non correlated pairs.
I am a day trader looking for setups on the 1hr and trade of the 15 min chart and a 20 pip stop works for me.

I lose 40% to 45% of the time so yes I ask myself. At what price will I question the validity of this trade?
At what point will I accept I have got it wrong and close this trade?
If I close this trade what will I want to see to allow me to trade in the opposite direction?

sorry got off topic. 10% per month compounded monthly is 200% per year. Yes, good only for small accounts with a proven trading system that give you an edge over the market. With larger accounts we become more risk adverse to maximum draw downs and lower our risk per trade. 10% per month every month for a year is unrealistic for me cause I still have losing months. 10% per month is plenty good to become rich, IMHO
  • #160
  • Feb 14, 2014 12:01am Feb 14, 2014 12:01am
I don't look at a specific % of return. I look at how much the market can actually give me and go from there. You never know what would be the true % return until you close that trade. Sometimes a trade doesn't look promising in the beginning but it goes on and become a killer trade. Sometimes looks like a really promising trade turns out to be a dud. So why set a fixed % return for the unknown in the beginning?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
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