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Attachments: career as a professional FX trader for hedge funds, banks, etc
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career as a professional FX trader for hedge funds, banks, etc

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Why start a carreer when you can trade self-employed from home?

for most of us i guess the problem is that we don't have 100-200K to start...

even if you make 100% by year, 100% of nothing = nothing ....
What you are trying to say does not make sense, as we talk about two different things here:

- Amateur Traders. They can make returns like 30% per month, however they won't last very long, as they will be wiped out sooner or later, for pure mathematical reasons.
- Professional Traders, a complete different Group. They intend to trade on a long-term basis, 10, 20, or even for 50 years. They can't gamble like the Amateur Traders, or they will go out of business sooner than you think. That's why they need to set realistic return expectations.

See this Video for reference, a guy who knows what he's talking about:

Inserted Video
Forex is a losers game.
Quoting trader121
What you are trying to say does not make sense, as we talk about two different things here: - Amateur Traders. They can make returns like 30% per month, however they won't last very long, as they will be wiped out sooner or later, for pure mathematical reasons.
And what are those mathematical reasons? That's nonsense.

I find it odd that when someone says "I can earn 30% per month," people automatically assume that they're going to compound that account continuously for infinity. So they start doing the math and assume that if you start with a $1000 account, 30% per month turns into $1m within three years and $1b within five years (or whatever)-- all the while neglecting to acknowledge that not only will a trader presumably need portions of these profits to fund his life and lifestyle (which instantly and drastically reduces the compounding effect), but also that many would likely diversify assets at some point and would not be pouring $10m or whatever absurd figure they think of into the same 30 pip EURUSD fade that is only possible with more flexible and liquid positions.

Can a trader earn 30% a month? Sure, assuming the account remains small enough. Can a trader earn 30% on a continuously compounded account? Obviously not.
Trader121, I totally agree as mentioned 10% - 20% - 30% consistently, with low draw down and portfolio volatility is quite a good performance.

While blinded by illusive riches chased, many get burnt significantly emotionally and financially.

indeed, focus on risk and capital preservation should be number 1!

whereas a great temptation is to use excessive leverage for astronomically high returns.

Excessive leverage I personally consider to be more than 5:1. Professional funds usually employ 1-2:1 leverage at most.

If I can offer just one recommendation in good faith and from my heart, this is it: reduce leverage at most 2:1 and see how you trade for a while at least.

my opinion: results will be better with 2:1 leverage than with 20:1 leverage.

best regards all!
Your right on a lot of accounts but 1 thing has not been said the leverage that can be trade in usa stop the infinity building for a lack of a better term. I have been averaging about 20% a month for last 3 yrs but my trading is based on what is real. I have an account of 80000 so at end of month weather I make 10 or 20% I take out winnings and start again. to me this is my job and I want to have the ability to make and draw out money in realtime not fantasy. So for me making 150 to 200,000 per year is fine. Its all about the business plan you put in place. The reason its impossible to compound to make millions is the lot size one can put on in retail fx and in institutional also you will get partial fills and screw up everything. I day trade and I get filled everytime 24 standard lots is nothing in this environment think about it.
Quoting trader121
What you are trying to say does not make sense, as we talk about two different things here: - Amateur Traders. They can make returns like 30% per month, however they won't last very long, as they will be wiped out sooner or later, for pure mathematical reasons. - Professional Traders, a complete different Group. They intend to trade on a long-term basis, 10, 20, or even for 50 years. They can't gamble like the Amateur Traders, or they will go out of business sooner than you think. That's why they need to set realistic return expectations. See this...

I am guessing this was in response to my post. If so, it is very apparent you are assuming many things that you seem to have little knowledge of. I can tell you two things:

1) Your 2 points are completely wrong, especially the second.
2) I know that I don't know everything, but your statement regarding the video is about a programmer, lol! So, he may know what he is talking about regarding programming, but how do you know he has any business discussing ROI's about everyone else? Maybe he is the greatest trader and knows all.

If my post doesn't make sense then tell me which part. It seems pretty clear to me, but I am the one who wrote it. If you don't get it I am guessing you don't understand the structure of the interbank market then either.

If you don't know ask, otherwise these discussions are futile. In my opinion those with beliefs like yours are very limiting. It is sad that so many traders are close minded, because this creates tunnel vision when finding your trading sweet spot.

Let me ask you a question if if may. Why do you try to compare your "trading results" to "professional" traders in hedge funds or other institutions? I am not asking for you to answer that question here, but just think about it for a long time. I often ask myself, why do I do the things that I do.
Quoting fxpivots
Your right on a lot of accounts but 1 thing has not been said the leverage that can be trade in usa stop the infinity building for a lack of a better term. I have been averaging about 20% a month for last 3 yrs but my trading is based on what is real. I have an account of 80000 so at end of month weather I make 10 or 20% I take out winnings and start again. to me this is my job and I want to have the ability to make and draw out money in realtime not fantasy. So for me making 150 to 200,000 per year is fine. Its all about the business plan you put...
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Wow, 10-20% per month is quite impressive, congratulations for such results!

Do you use a leverage of aroud 5-10:1 or more, if I may ask?

I know Mulvaney Capital had an over 100% return per annum în 2008 and that's quite significant too în my opinion.

Please lets keep the conversation flow constructive rather than ...otherwise

Best, all!

Have à great day!
In usa max is 50 to 1 max trade 3% of acct
Quoting slowhand
BGrigore, having worked for others (as a dealer and a broker) in various markets, I enjoy working for myself for all the reasons listed above. Getting enough capital (and skills) together to survive as a fulltime trader is the hardest part. But I have worked for myself longer than for others, perhaps what you wish for depends on your stage in life. There are opportunities to prove yourself - as olympus999 wrote - if that helps. And yep, nothing beats pajama trading. Good luck A.
I doubt if anyone can make a living trading FOREX as a retail trader. One of the greatest threat to a retail trader is that the best FOREX brokers today are scams tomorrow. Even if you are that good to make profit, those guys will not allow you to make withdrawals; you can't 'run' away with their money.

Until FOREX market is highly regulated, the best thing is take as a past-time.

Which broker can you 100% vouch for?

I stand to be corrected.
EMA Addict
Quoting DeeTee
{quote} I doubt if anyone can make a living trading FOREX as a retail trader. One of the greatest threat to a retail trader is that the best FOREX brokers today are scams tomorrow. Even if you are that good to make profit, those guys will not allow you to make withdrawals; you can't 'run' away with their money. Until FOREX market is highly regulated, the best thing is take as a past-time. Which broker can you 100% vouch for? I stand to be corrected.
Why is there so much false information on these threads about Brokers NOT letting their clients make withdrawls of their profits? This is just crazy! Well, I trade Forex Full time and make a very nice living. And while I agree there are some dicey brokers out there, there are also some very good reputable ones. Do your research. I use FXCM Active Trader No Dealing Desk and regulary wire funds in and out of my account several times a month at no charge
Quoting yazzie
{quote} Why is there so much false information on these threads about Brokers NOT letting their clients make withdrawls of their profits? This is just crazy! Well, I trade Forex Full time and make a very nice living. And while I agree there are some dicey brokers out there, there are also some very good reputable ones. Do your research. I use FXCM Active Trader No Dealing Desk and regulary wire funds in and out of my account several times a month at no charge
Well, I don't have any reason to disbelief you, but allow me to ask this question:

Is the sum total of your withdrawals more than the sum total of your deposits?

If it's not, then you are only withdrawing your deposit and not profit.

Broker's don't have issue with withdrawing deposit but I believe some of them will do everything to prevent you from touching your 'profit' 'cos that what you claim profit is partly their money and partly the losses of the losers.
EMA Addict
of course there are brokers and brokers, everyone should make their own research in this regard.

reputable brokers are well regulated, listed even, pay care to customer service and do allow quick withdrawals and deposits.

plus, client funds are kept segregated.

but let's get back to the topic of how can you be a trader for a firm - do you know any firms which offer this possibility in Europe or in otther major financial centres?

best, all!
Quoting DeeTee
I doubt if anyone can make a living trading FOREX as a retail trader. One of the greatest threat to a retail trader is that the best FOREX brokers today are scams tomorrow.
Uhhhh like who? What a ridiculous statement. Oanda (not my broker, but a very common one) has been in operation since 1996. That's 18 years if you can't do the math.
Quoting smittens4212
{quote} Uhhhh like who? What a ridiculous statement. Oanda (not my broker, but a very common one) has been in operation since 1996. That's 18 years if you can't do the math.
I know I sound cynical. The truth is I have not yet met a successful full-time retail trader who is paying his bills solely from the proceed from FOREX. I started trading FOREX in 2006, I broke even in 2011. I am still on the learning curve.

I still maintain that the greatest threat to traders are the brokers. So I believe people should keep their day job and trade part-time in case their brokers refuse to play by the rules they set. That way they have something to fall back on.
EMA Addict
Quoting DeeTee
{quote} I know I sound cynical. The truth is I have not yet met a successful full-time retail trader who is paying his bills solely from the proceed from FOREX. I started trading FOREX in 2006, I broke even in 2011. I am still on the learning curve. I still maintain that the greatest threat to traders are the brokers. So I believe people should keep their day job and trade part-time in case their brokers refuse to play by the rules they set. That way they have something to fall back on.
Nice to meet your acquaintance DeeTee. Been at this since 2001 fulltime since 2004 or 2005 cant remember I draw profits every month haven't made a deposit since 2004 I have been using oanda since then with no problems. They basicly give me the people who loses money. Now concerning trading for a firm like anything else degrees in economics etc gets you in the door then you work your way up just like any other job. Had a friend start off as a clerk in commodities company now hes on the exchange floor.
Quoting fxpivots
I have been averaging about 20% a month for last 3 yrs but my trading is based on what is real.

fxpivots, how can your statement be true? After all, the guy in video above (in post #82 of this thread) said:

"A lot of amateur traders say they want to do 5% or 10% a month. That's not realistic all the time. That would be an annual return between 100% - 200%. Nobody does that. Nobody ever has and nobody ever will."

I know you are not an "amateur", but the guy in the video specifically said in regards to averaging 5% or more per month: "NOBODY does that. Nobody EVER has and nobody EVER will." So, is the guy in the video lying? I don't know. That's why I'm asking.
"Trading is a mental sport." - Ziad Masri
Here's a man who claims to make 75% a month.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=343533


Here's a man who claims to make 3-9% a day "almost every day".

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...ghlight=kostas

Forex is full of liars. That's the first thing you need to learn before reading these forums.
Don't believe anything you read here and only half of what you actually witness.
Quoting billbss
Here's a man who claims to make 75% a month. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=343533 Here's a man who claims to make 3-9% a day "almost every day". http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...ghlight=kostas Forex is full of liars. That's the first thing you need to learn before reading these forums. Don't believe anything you read here and only half of what you actually witness.

That's exactly the kind of BS newbies are prone to believe because it matches their financial needs to pay the bills and/or their unrealistic expectations of getting rich quickly. Most won't realize that the market doesn't own them anything until it's a bit too late and they have already lost their shirt.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
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Quoting billbss
Here's a man who claims to make 75% a month. <a href="http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=343533" target="_blank">http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=343533</a> Here's a man who claims to make 3-9% a day &quot;almost every day&quot;. <a href="http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=236210&amp;highlight=kostas" target="_blank">http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=236210&amp;highlight=kostas</a> Forex is full of liars. That's the first thing you need to learn before reading these forums. Don't believe anything you read...
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<p></p>your statements may be true but not in my experience and I have nothing to sell lol
Quoting Quickdraw
{quote} fxpivots, how can your statement be true? After all, the guy in video above (in post #82 of this thread) said: "A lot of amateur traders say they want to do 5% or 10% a month. That's not realistic all the time. That would be an annual return between 100% - 200%. Nobody does that. Nobody ever has and nobody ever will." I know you are not an "amateur", but the guy in the video specifically said in regards to averaging 5% or more per month: "NOBODY does that. Nobody EVER has and nobody EVER will." So, is the guy in the video lying? I don't...

Classic type of guy who lose in Forex. Reminds me of friends claiming it's not possible to make a dime in Forex because they just couldn't.

I know plenty of guys making more than 5% a month and even more.

Don't listen to all the BS you hear, just focus on your own account and own strategy. Too many losers try to drag you down.
COT: The precious data ignored
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