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Is it possible to earn 30% per month consistently for 4 years?

  • #141
  • Jan 15, 2014 5:47pm Jan 15, 2014 5:47pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} The formula is: INITIAL CAPITAL * (1+ GROWTH PERCENT/100) ^ TIME = 100* (1+ 0.30)^ (3*12 ) = 100* (1.3) ^36 = 100 *12646.2185 = 1,264,621.85 $ Well 60% or 80%, whatever, i dont know what is possible, i think the pro wallstreet stock traders can achieve this, so i was wrong with the 60%. But even if the cap is 60%, just trade more trades/day to make up for the losses, if the probability for all trades to be right is 60% then the more trades the more money.Overtrading is a stupid urban myth for newbies. If all trades have equal probability...

I know the formula, but there is more to this than a formula, you've have to be scalping at $2000 per pip, which would be 200, $10 per pip orders your broker would take 10mins to fill all, think of trying to set a SL on 200 or close quickly, which would likely take 10mins aswell.

I add $100 at a time myself, blow it but learn a bit, better to learn with $100 then $10,000.

Overtrading, isn't really that, it's when your losing and you take 20trades in a day and pretty much lose all at 3% then it's bad, when your good and you pretty much win all at 3% then that's obviously very good
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #142
  • Jan 15, 2014 5:51pm Jan 15, 2014 5:51pm
Quoting Proximus
And by the way what is with this "overtrading" crap if all trades have an equal probability of the outcome to be a winner,then doesnt matter how much you trade.If for example the wedge patterns would have a 70% of continuation, would you stop trading them after 1 or 2/ day? Hell no,i personally would trade them on all majors all day, and probably make 20% account growth /day.Unfortunately i dont know if there is a constant probability situation in the market.An edge is an edge but not always the same probability it may have 40% probability for a...

Part of the edge, is yourself being able to trade, with Fear and Greed at play, so sadly real $$$'s when you've found something that might work, obviously keep it small, ie hobby level/

It takes TIME, then 1 day it will all hopefully click into place, did with me, just wish I wasn't busy, had today ear marketed to trade, but tired and headache and ended up with 1 trade for 7pips, but hey always another day.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #143
  • Jan 15, 2014 6:14pm Jan 15, 2014 6:14pm
Quoting Proximus
And by the way what is with this "overtrading" crap if all trades have an equal probability of the outcome to be a winner,then doesnt matter how much you trade.If for example the wedge patterns would have a 70% of continuation, would you stop trading them after 1 or 2/ day? Hell no,i personally would trade them on all majors all day, and probably make 20% account growth /day.Unfortunately i dont know if there is a constant probability situation in the market.An edge is an edge but not always the same probability it may have 40% probability for a...
It stands to reason: the more pairs you watch the greater a chance you will see setups worth taking, and with a good system, the more money you will make.

Over trading is not really about how many trades you make, but how many poor setups you take.
  • #144
  • Jan 15, 2014 7:04pm Jan 15, 2014 7:04pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} I know the formula, but there is more to this than a formula, you've have to be scalping at $2000 per pip, which would be 200, $10 per pip orders your broker would take 10mins to fill all, think of trying to set a SL on 200 or close quickly, which would likely take 10mins aswell. I add $100 at a time myself, blow it but learn a bit, better to learn with $100 then $10,000. Overtrading, isn't really that, it's when your losing and you take 20trades in a day and pretty much lose all at 3% then it's bad, when your good and you pretty much win...
10 min to fil an order? Thats just insane, my broker fills an order in 1-2 seconds, imagine trading the news or any breakout with a 10 min delay, pretty bad eh.

And probably trade on more pair not just on 1, having 20-30 trades/ day its acceptable if they are all quality trades.


Quote
Part of the edge, is yourself being able to trade, with Fear and Greed at play, so sadly real $$$'s when you've found something that might work, obviously keep it small, ie hobby level/

It takes TIME, then 1 day it will all hopefully click into place, did with me, just wish I wasn't busy, had today ear marketed to trade, but tired and headache and ended up with 1 trade for 7pips, but hey always another day.

No emotions here, i will trade with an EA, i will make an EA to trade the system, so no emotions should interfere.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #145
  • Jan 15, 2014 7:09pm Jan 15, 2014 7:09pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} It stands to reason: the more pairs you watch the greater a chance you will see setups worth taking, and with a good system, the more money you will make. Over trading is not really about how many trades you make, but how many poor setups you take.
Yes but some people think its equivalent.

Some guys think 100 trades /day is too much, but cant justify it, they think that if i trade 100 trades/day then the quality of them must be bad, but not necessarly.

If all of them have a 0.1 expectancy, but its the minimum, then probably i cant buy a Lamborghini from 1 trade, but need hundreds of them to gain a good account growth, even with 3-4% risk.

Some people do stupid things like 20-30% risk, which is just insane, even if you have an edge, if the edge is so small like 0.1 expectancy, means that you can easily have 10 losses in a row in no time.

So by risking 30% you can lose all your cash in 4 consecutive losses, which can happen often, so this is why i adjust my account risk to be always less than 5%, so i vary between 1-4% depending on the drawdown and other factors, but this is only minor improvement.

The key is to have an edge, after than anything is possible.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #146
  • Jan 15, 2014 7:12pm Jan 15, 2014 7:12pm
Quoting apu21
I want to ask all the expert traders here that, is it possible to earn 30% of our invested capital
Hi Apu,

A similar question asked on the this older thread:-

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=48001
  • #147
  • Jan 15, 2014 7:16pm Jan 15, 2014 7:16pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Part of the edge, is yourself being able to trade, with Fear and Greed at play, so sadly real $$$'s when you've found something that might work, obviously keep it small, ie hobby level
Nah thats not the edge, that is called sanity, or discipline.Nothing to do with the edge.

The edge is the capacity to predict price better than a coin flip, so if you have any system which more than 50% winrate on 1:1 RR, or in other words the expectancy > 0, that is the edge.

So expectancy > 0 = edge

And the formula for expectancy is: expectancy = [winrate * reward /risk] - [(100-winrate) *1]

If it is bigger than 0 then you have an edge and probably you are a future billionaire if the edge is bigger >1
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #148
  • Edited 7:31pm Jan 15, 2014 7:20pm | Edited 7:31pm
At page 8 it's not doubt probably been said, but if it hasn't, here it is:

Turning $100 into $28 million isn't about making money. It's about what you do with the money once you make it.

Think about it: You go for and try and compound $100 by 30% every month. What happens? If you succeed you have an account of about $50,000 pulling in $15,000 per month. Tell me: Are you seriously just going to do nothing with that money and keep compounding it? What about $500,000? Are you seriously going to tell me that you're not going to go 'to hell with it - I'm gonna start spending!' when you realise you are pulling in $150,000 per month?

Even if you do decide to bite the bullet and keep compounding it up, a small error might scare you into thinking that you should stop compounding in case you lose this awesome amount of money you never expected to have and feel lucky having. You might decide to start buying stuff like a nice car to show off or to reward your discipline, you might decide to shout your kids and family some luxeries that you would never thought you'd be able to shout. You might hand the easy money to a friend to start a business because 'hay!' it's easy to make $150,000 per month, so why not?! The business goes to shit and the money is lost, but you know you can make more, so what's the issue?

Then there's the family demands. Your wife catches wind that you're generating far more money than your family needs and a friend of hers child is seriously ill and needs $100,000 for surgery. Do you do it? Do you say 'no'? I dare you to say 'no'. So, -$100,000 there. But hey, that's where it starts... word gets around and before you know it people are either trying to sap you of money, emotionally manipulate you for money, bribe you for money or you're coming up with reasons to spend the money... because after all... it was easy money. Your wife, utterly impressed with your proficiency for making money in the markets, will innocently tempt you into spending the money - just because she believes you deserve it!

Then there's the brokers, the banks, accountants, lawyers, etc wanting to take as much of the slice of money as they can. The reality is, if you had several million dolloars that was made really fast in a brokers account, it might be difficult to take out easily. The broker could go belly up - all the money is lost. You decide to take some money out incase of such a thing happening, this then dillutes your returns because you have less money in the broker's account to hold positions and absorb losses. You want to set something up with the broker that allows you to have more control over the bank account that trades the money (so you can trade for the same returns), this costs money and resources with lawyers negotiating with eachother, etc. Taking large money out of the account gets hit with charges from the bank. Everyone is coming up with reasons why they should take your money... You go into threarpy and they decide to up their rates once they realise how much you make. Eventually the broker no longer is willing to be the market maker for your trades because your account is too big, so they put you through to the ECN network and you start suffering slippage. This errodes your returns by erroding your risk:reward ratio. This causes you to change your strategy to something more appropriate for a large account. You lose money during this transition.

The point is, as that account gets bigger, you'll encounter more and more reasons to empty that account.

So, you can still generate 30% per month and still have no money. It's not about making the money. It's about what you do with the money once it's made.
  • #149
  • Jan 15, 2014 7:32pm Jan 15, 2014 7:32pm
Quoting Cujo2
At page 8 it's not doubt probably been said, but if it hasn't, here it is: Turning $100 into $28 million isn't about making money. It's about what you do with the money once you make it. Think about it: You go for and try and compound $100 by 30% every month. What happens? If you succeed you have an account of about $50,000 pulling in $15,000 per month. Tell me: Are you seriously just going to do nothing with that money and keep compounding it? What about $500,000? Are you seriously going to tell me that you're not going to go 'to hell with it -...
Come on, it is not about how to spend the money. Real isuse is how to consistently get it.

To me, after the first 100%, always take out the capital first. Then no risk further, just gain!

And if things really consistently accumulated, at some period, take some and continue with some.
If it is consistently achievable, can always repeat it, even with bigger starting equity.
  • #150
  • Jan 15, 2014 7:34pm Jan 15, 2014 7:34pm
Quoting Cujo2
At page 8 it's not doubt probably been said, but if it hasn't, here it is: Turning $100 into $28 million isn't about making money. It's about what you do with the money once you make it. Think about it: You go for and try and compound $100 by 30% every month. What happens? If you succeed you have an account of about $50,000 pulling in $15,000 per month. Tell me: Are you seriously just going to do nothing with that money and keep compounding it? What about $500,000? Are you seriously going to tell me that you're not going to go 'to hell with it -...
Nice thought, but this is the least of my concerns, or atleast for now.

If i`d make 30% / months i`d probably be a VIP person, everyone would stay in my door begging for money

But look at other billionaires, they are not that begged by, look at Bill Gates, he has a nice house and a few normal cars, nothing fancy.

As for withdrawals, of couse i would withdraw cash at a regular basis, didnt you think that i would hold a billion dollar sized account at my broker, even if i trust them, nobody can know.

With that much money i make my own bank, and trade with that

And about withdrawals, yes if i make 30% /month, i think its reasonable to pull out 10%, it would slow the growth, but whatever just for safety.

And i agree,that they wont let you pull out much, because the broker doesnt always have that much cash at them.I think in my country its about 20 million € they must hold in reserves, so if i`d want to withdraw my 50 million € profit, then i would have to wait a few months or years, or i had to withdraw it in smaller sizes.

As for the bank, yes the same stuff there, banks have a legal obligation to have a certain sized reserve, so if i want to take out cash, i cant just simply withdraw 1 billion dollar and put in a van

Where do i put that, i would get robbed the way home and no cash would be left by the time i get home with the van.

So there is a magic invention called debit cards, where the money you have is not stored in cash, but in e-money or whatever is called, and i can buy everything i want without using phisycal money.

And also spending is good, i have many plans what to do with a huge chunk of money, so why should i keep them under my pillow ? Just to raise the inflation ? Nah, spending all the way, maybe buy some stocks in a few companies to help them grow, sort of to help the economy, but no way keep them under the pillow
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #151
  • Edited 8:18pm Jan 15, 2014 8:01pm | Edited 8:18pm
All I'm saying is that the bigger the account gets, the harder it will get to keep building that account. You'll encounter numerous reasons, temptations, realisations, distractions, etc that will 'encourage' you to not keep building that account and instead to start spending the account.

The road to building wealth is paved with lots of highly paid poor people.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this to suggest that it can't be done. I'm saying this so you can prepare for them rather than encountering them when you least expect it.
  • #152
  • Jan 16, 2014 12:36pm Jan 16, 2014 12:36pm
You can obsess about your calculations for the rest of your life but until you eventually get your brain working in the right direction and actually become consistently profitable they mean absolutely nothing.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #153
  • Jan 17, 2014 12:22am Jan 17, 2014 12:22am
Quoting Cujo2
All I'm saying is that the bigger the account gets, the harder it will get to keep building that account. You'll encounter numerous reasons, temptations, realisations, distractions, etc that will 'encourage' you to not keep building that account and instead to start spending the account. The road to building wealth is paved with lots of highly paid poor people. EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this to suggest that it can't be done. I'm saying this so you can prepare for them rather than encountering them when you least expect it.
Thats the least of my concerns, and spending is always good, why ,you think i will hold my money under my pillow forever?

Quoting Mikkk01
You can obsess about your calculations for the rest of your life but until you eventually get your brain working in the right direction and actually become consistently profitable they mean absolutely nothing.
Its more like the lack of a consistent reliable edge which can give consistent and reliable profits.

Without that, every attempt in trading is useless.You can have a mindset of a champion and iron discipline if you lack the edge, its of no use.

Maybe i should not keep you in ignore, i think the quality of your posts improved in the past days, and if you write crap then i can atleast laugh at it.You cant even imagine how much i laughted when i saw your dispute with the Magix guy.Its hard to decide which one of you is the biggest troll but whatever atleast its entertaining
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #154
  • Jan 17, 2014 12:47am Jan 17, 2014 12:47am
Quoting Proximus
Its more like the lack of a consistent reliable edge which can give consistent and reliable profits. Without that, every attempt in trading is useless.You can have a mindset of a champion and iron discipline if you lack the edge, its of no use.
You always miss the point - I got used to it already.

You have a very restricted understanding of what mindset is. I ain't gonna explain it, wanna know - make your own research.

You'll never get the edge working if you don't even see it - and you don't as you think 99% of systems are useless. There're enough working methods around. If you still can't get money and think that's cause you don't have an edge - it's your problem. Keep on building your holy grail

Just wondering, you think you're the smartest guy as turvy does? If not, what makes you think you can get any better results if you're now persistently doing the same thing all newbies do. And you're together with turvy on this stage...

Step Two - Conscious Incompetence

During this time you will be a system nomad - you will flick from method to method day by day and week by week never sticking with one long enough to actually see if it does work. Every time you come upon a new indicator you'll be ecstatic that this is the one that will make all the difference.

You will test out automated systems on Metatrader, you'll play with moving averages, Fibonacci lines, support & resistance, Pivots, Fractals, Divergence, DMI, ADX, and a hundred other things all in the vein hope that your 'magic system' starts today. You'll be a top and bottom picker, trying to find the exact point of reversal with your indicators and you'll find yourself chasing losing trades and even adding to them because you are so sure you are right.

You'll go into the live chat room and see other traders making pips and you want to know why it's not you - you'll ask a million questions, some of which are so dumb that looking back you feel a bit silly. You'll then reach the point where you think all the ones who are calling pips after pips are liars - they cant be making that amount because you've studied and you don't make that, you know as much as they do and they must be lying. But they're in there day after day and their account just grows whilst yours falls.

You will be like a teenager - the traders that make money will freely give you advice but you're stubborn and think that you know best - you take no notice and overtrade your account even though everyone says you are mad to - but you know better.
Quoting Proximus
Maybe i should not keep you in ignore, i think the quality of your posts improved in the past days, and if you write crap then i can atleast laugh at it.
Don't care really. You've been responding to each and every of my posts anyway.

I write what I feel like as usual. If you stopped feeling bad after reading [whatever it is] - good on you!!
Quoting Proximus
dispute with the Magix guy.
What exactly did you do you mean?
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #155
  • Jan 17, 2014 11:17pm Jan 17, 2014 11:17pm
I have to agree with Proximus on this. Most of the systems out there don't work out of the box. When you make changes to them, that's your edge - Doing something that not many others are doing. This is exactly why I never tell anyone exactly how I trade. I'll give them a general idea. Besides, I don't always trade the same way. I don't have set rules except for risk management. That's my edge.

But something I disagree with is about the big banks. the big banks ARE using the same indicators. There aren't any magical indicators that only they have access to. Sure they probably came up with a few of their own, but then again, indicators are always backwards looking and the markets look ahead. So, it doesn't matter. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, go ahead and use them. For example, RSI can stay in overbought or oversold for hundreds of pips. It gives you exactly ZERO insight into what's going to happen.
  • #156
  • Jan 17, 2014 11:26pm Jan 17, 2014 11:26pm
Quoting card
I have to agree with Proximus on this. Most of the systems out there don't work out of the box. When you make changes to them, that's your edge - Doing something that not many others are doing. This is exactly why I never tell anyone exactly how I trade. I'll give them a general idea. Besides, I don't always trade the same way. I don't have set rules except for risk management. That's my edge. But something I disagree with is about the big banks. the big banks ARE using the same indicators. There aren't any magical indicators that only they have...
I`m sorry but indicators are only a fallacy.Even worse, its an addiction, once you get addicted to them its hard to throw them away, because there is always a: what if this combo works?...
If they work for a few trades you get so excited that you found a holy grail, and after a few weeks you get dissapointed, and go search for other magical combo.

As for banks, i can assure you no serious bank would trade with indicators, maybe an MA just to show the trend but nothing more.Maybe Lehman Brothers did traded with RSI+MACD+STOCHASTIC+ ADX systems, and look at them now, bankrupt & liquidated.

Heck even better i think the Lehman Brothers used Magix's NO STOPLOSS system and thats why they lost all their capital, and got bankrupt

So to speak seriously, banks use orderflow calculation, they know exactly the sums of money which goes throught them and can move candlesticks, so whatever trade they go into, they only trade at high liquidity situations and mostly using only fundamentals, because they are more reliable than a fkin STOCHASTIC+ADX crap.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #157
  • Jan 18, 2014 2:46am Jan 18, 2014 2:46am
Quoting apu21
I want to ask all the expert traders here that, is it possible to earn 30% of our invested capital in a compound way for consistently for 4 years? I have seen many traders that claim to have a gain of more than 30% per month, are they telling the truth? If it's possible then investing only $100 can be turned into $29,463,267.63 after 48 winning month. I want to ask all the traders that is there any real strategy that can make it possible? Even I made a strategy which looks to be holy grail and giving me about 30% per month. But I don't know how...
oooo I just spotted this thread, It is possible to do it but the odds are stacked against you.
First you need an excellent trading method which stands to reason plus a massive bank roll and then forget about the 30%. You do need the experience to trade compounding. You can achieve tens of thousands of £££££/$$$$$ but the million part you'll start to get probs off the broker
I would advise you to once you start getting big money to buy houses as this is a sound method. If you do not trade you do not lose
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #158
  • Jan 18, 2014 4:43am Jan 18, 2014 4:43am
Quoting apu21
I want to ask all the expert traders here that, is it possible to earn 30% of our invested capital in a compound way for consistently for 4 years? I have seen many traders that claim to have a gain of more than 30% per month, are they telling the truth? If it's possible then investing only $100 can be turned into $29,463,267.63 after 48 winning month. I want to ask all the traders that is there any real strategy that can make it possible? Even I made a strategy which looks to be holy grail and giving me about 30% per month. But I don't know how...
you can make it if you believe in your strategy and its working however it would be very difficult above 100k most of the brokers will refuse leverage and liquidity , banks terms would not be very flexible so you might get slowdown there , so not impossible but difficult.
  • #159
  • Jan 18, 2014 9:13am Jan 18, 2014 9:13am
ok making a 30% per month is possible but in forex market i believe and this is what i am doing you must take all the profit that you are making so it is not going away in secs
making 30% mean you are risking 30% of losing you account on every trade

my way of trading is little different from our player
forex market it is a risky place to trade safe as per my view(it is matter of time to clean you account from the cash by losing it)
so for safe place to trade you may play in stock markets but forex market i believe (small account value 1000$ as max, 5 account minim and high risk trading) any profit withdraw it insistently

the way you are doing to trade on the profit to make more profit it is better to do it in the stock market i believe.
  • #160
  • Jan 18, 2014 9:38am Jan 18, 2014 9:38am
Quoting hamedmohd
making 30% mean you are risking 30% of losing you account on every trade.
Absolutely not.

The point isn't to make 30% in a single trade ... and sure not to risk 30% in a single trade.
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