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vsa with Malcolm

  • #25,121
  • Dec 27, 2013 7:52am Dec 27, 2013 7:52am
15 min chart.
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  • #25,122
  • Dec 27, 2013 11:02am Dec 27, 2013 11:02am
Hi SimpleDev, please can you expand further on this, please see attached chart with an Upthrust which closes below the previous bar.
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} Besides the bar is not an UT because it closes well below the previous bar.
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Tracking the Specialists.
  • #25,123
  • Dec 28, 2013 8:48am Dec 28, 2013 8:48am
Quoting jcite89
Hi guys, Im currently looking at usd/chf H4. Chart is in a down trend but last Hr4 bar spike down and reversal above the support area. Waiting for it to close above it to add more position. Im still in the learning process. I understand its not right to go against the trend but what do you think of this chart? {image}
Why are you going long in a downtrend?
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #25,124
  • Dec 28, 2013 10:01am Dec 28, 2013 10:01am
Quoting Connected
Hi SimpleDev, please can you expand further on this, please see attached chart with an Upthrust which closes below the previous bar. {quote} {image}
I'm not Ryan but i'll give my two cents anyway. Yes this is an upthrust but I wouldn't call it an upthrust in the classic sense. On the old copy of TG that I used to have these bars were often marked as a trap up move. For me these differ to an upthrust in that the volume was nearly always ultra high and the spreads tend to be wider.

The market pushes up at the open of the bar, more often than not making a new high, all the herd jump in long thinking the up trend is continuing then the SM push it down hard and fast, taking out the lows of the previous bars and catching stops of the herd and causing some panic selling. A couple of bars later, this area is tested and we see a nice little ND bar into what is probably the 50% area of this trap up move bar.

Hope this helps a bit.
  • #25,125
  • Dec 29, 2013 6:45am Dec 29, 2013 6:45am
Quoting KinsaleForex
{quote} I'm not Ryan but i'll give my two cents anyway. Yes this is an upthrust but I wouldn't call it an upthrust in the classic sense. On the old copy of TG that I used to have these bars were often marked as a trap up move. For me these differ to an upthrust in that the volume was nearly always ultra high and the spreads tend to be wider. The market pushes up at the open of the bar, more often than not making a new high, all the herd jump in long thinking the up trend is continuing then the SM push it down hard and fast, taking out the lows of...
Hi Kinsale, thank you kindly for your explanation and feedback buddy, that definitely makes sense.
Tracking the Specialists.
  • #25,126
  • Dec 29, 2013 7:00am Dec 29, 2013 7:00am
Quoting Connected
Hi SimpleDev, please can you expand further on this, please see attached chart with an Upthrust which closes below the previous bar. {quote} {image}
The second chart you posted is different, look at the UT it does close below the previous bar but not far off. The first chart you posted, the bar closed a lot lower than the previous bar. I see it as a wide spread down bar in an up trend, would have been looking to go long on it.

4h, possible weakness coming in, wide spread but volume isn't what I would expect it to be. Watch for reactions at 3700-3720, next week is another holiday week, I think its a holiday for Asia all the way through Thursday or Friday. Maybe another good week to take a break and relax.
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  • #25,127
  • Dec 29, 2013 8:04am Dec 29, 2013 8:04am
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} The second chart you posted is different, look at the UT it does close below the previous bar but not far off. The first chart you posted, the bar closed a lot lower than the previous bar. I see it as a wide spread down bar in an up trend, would have been looking to go long on it. 4h, possible weakness coming in, wide spread but volume isn't what I would expect it to be. Watch for reactions at 3700-3720, next week is another holiday week, I think its a holiday for Asia all the way through Thursday or Friday. Maybe another good week to take...
Thank you kindly for your feedback Ryan, I'll pay more attention to the close of the bar in cases like this when compared to the previous bars close.
Tracking the Specialists.
  • #25,128
  • Dec 29, 2013 10:59am Dec 29, 2013 10:59am
Reading through Master the Markets and still trying to decipher the difference between an Upthrust and a Hidden Upthrust, and the nearest difference I can find is that a hidden upthrust can also be seen as an upthrust AND No Demand combination and usually comes during a downtrend. Please can anyone tell me if this is correct and/or if I missed anything out? many thanks for any pointers.
Tracking the Specialists.
  • #25,129
  • Dec 30, 2013 8:25am Dec 30, 2013 8:25am
Quoting Connected
Reading through Master the Markets and still trying to decipher the difference between an Upthrust and a Hidden Upthrust, and the nearest difference I can find is that a hidden upthrust can also be seen as an upthrust AND No Demand combination and usually comes during a downtrend. Please can anyone tell me if this is correct and/or if I missed anything out? many thanks for any pointers.
During my research looking for more information re: hidden upthrusts, I remembered this very useful document in this post by Gez http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...18#post6520318

or here is the link to download the document http://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1153796&d=1363512580 very useful guide for us newbies
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Tracking the Specialists.
  • #25,130
  • Dec 31, 2013 11:32am Dec 31, 2013 11:32am
It appears to me on this thread that a lot of emphasis is being placed on single bars or bar by bar analysis to look for a trade entry. This type of analysis will kill your account.
The background of the chart must be telling you the reason you are entering and whether or not we have just completed or have entered a period of distribution or accumulation.
Speaking from experience it wasn't util I really started to wrap my head around Wykoff principles on this that I was able to make certain leaps in my trading.
  • #25,131
  • Dec 31, 2013 1:34pm Dec 31, 2013 1:34pm
Quoting Sonofsin5
It appears to me on this thread that a lot of emphasis is being placed on single bars or bar by bar analysis to look for a trade entry. This type of analysis will kill your account. The background of the chart must be telling you the reason you are entering and whether or not we have just completed or have entered a period of distribution or accumulation. Speaking from experience it wasn't util I really started to wrap my head around Wykoff principles on this that I was able to make certain leaps in my trading.
I have not seen a clear description of the concept of BACKGROUND. How far is it in the time ?
I think one though issue with Background is, it is subjective. It would be helpful to get some fundemantal rules how to read the background, how to define it, how to work with it.

please do not reply this post by suggesting to read MTM. I've already done it.
  • #25,132
  • Dec 31, 2013 2:33pm Dec 31, 2013 2:33pm
Quoting Trappist
{quote} I have not seen a clear description of the concept of BACKGROUND. How far is it in the time ? I think one though issue with Background is, it is subjective. It would be helpful to get some fundemantal rules how to read the background, how to define it, how to work with it. please do not reply this post by suggesting to read MTM. I've already done it.
Did you say you wanted funnymentals? You've just joined the herd.
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #25,133
  • Dec 31, 2013 3:07pm Dec 31, 2013 3:07pm
Quoting gez40
{quote} Did you say you wanted funnymentals? You've just joined the herd.
I am not trying to be funny. When i say fundementals, i do not mean the news or fundemental analysis of events and their effect on the markets. I was referring to background's characteristic attributes.
  • #25,134
  • Edited 1:19am Jan 1, 2014 12:44am | Edited 1:19am
Quoting Sonofsin5
it wasn't util I really started to wrap my head around Wykoff principles on this that I was able to make certain leaps in my trading.
Hi Sonofsin , please if you wouldnt mind can you advise on a book or source of best information I may read up on for the Wyckoff principles best described in your post please? Many thanks in advance
Tracking the Specialists.
  • #25,135
  • Jan 2, 2014 10:04am Jan 2, 2014 10:04am
Quoting Connected
{quote} book or source of best information I may read up on for the Wyckoff principles
Jesse Livermore's Methods of Trading in Stocks by Richard D. Wyckoff
Studies in Tape Reading by Richard D. Wyckoff
Stock Market Technique by Richard D. Wyckoff
My Secrets of Day trading in Stocks by D Richard Wyckoff
Wall Street Ventures and Adventures by Richard D. Wyckoff
How I Trade and Invest in Stocks and Bonds by Richard D. Wyckoff

Now to choose one which emcompasses the main Wyckoff principles....any pointers guys? I am gravitating towards 'Studies in Tape Reading' also I heard that Richard Ney's books were very good reading material too.
Tracking the Specialists.
  • #25,136
  • Jan 2, 2014 10:16am Jan 2, 2014 10:16am
Guys there are a few Wyckoff books now in the public domain, this one is originally from 1910, you can download it legally from this link: http://www.nowandfutures.com/large/R...ngOfStocks.pdf
Tracking the Specialists.
  • #25,137
  • Jan 2, 2014 10:25am Jan 2, 2014 10:25am
Quoting Trappist
{quote} I have not seen a clear description of the concept of BACKGROUND. How far is it in the time ? I think one though issue with Background is, it is subjective. It would be helpful to get some fundemantal rules how to read the background, how to define it, how to work with it. please do not reply this post by suggesting to read MTM. I've already done it.
I'm not suggesting anything ... but read MTM
  • #25,138
  • Jan 2, 2014 3:14pm Jan 2, 2014 3:14pm
Quoting 1pipperhour
{quote} I'm not suggesting anything ... but read MTM
Woww..very impressive..thank you
  • #25,139
  • Jan 2, 2014 9:53pm Jan 2, 2014 9:53pm
Quoting Connected
{quote} During my research looking for more information re: hidden upthrusts, I remembered this very useful document in this post by Gez http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...18#post6520318 or here is the link to download the document http://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1153796&d=1363512580 very useful guide for us newbies {image}
That doesn't even tell you what a hidden upthrust is, just gives you definitions of a ND/NS. Use the search function in this thread and you will see hundreds of posts with examples of hidden upthrusts.

BTW a hidden upthrust is an upthrusts where the close of the ipthrust closes lower than the previous bar's close.
  • #25,140
  • Jan 2, 2014 10:16pm Jan 2, 2014 10:16pm
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} a hidden upthrust is an upthrusts where the close of the ipthrust closes lower than the previous bar's close.
Thanks you SimpleDev for clarifying this, much appreciated,
Tracking the Specialists.
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