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There is no Holy Grail

  • #121
  • Dec 14, 2013 5:35pm Dec 14, 2013 5:35pm
Where is Majix when you need him LOL
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #122
  • Dec 14, 2013 9:35pm Dec 14, 2013 9:35pm
Quoting Turveyd
Where is Majix when you need him LOL

http://wholesaledress.mobi/img/ask_maggie_1.png
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #123
  • Dec 15, 2013 6:20am Dec 15, 2013 6:20am
Was reviewing some of the items in this thread and it caught my eye:

Quoting jen101
{quote} Yes. If I asked you to run across a plank of wood 30cm off the ground, no problem. Now if I placed that same plank 100 metres up, I bet you couldn't do it.
You know what? Perhaps you're right, but there's a pretty good chance I could, if I was able to visualise it being the same as it was when it was only 30cm off the ground. But due to inexperience, my nerves/ subconscious may get the better of me and cause me to hesitate, stumble, etc., but not necessarily fall. Perhaps 95% of people might. (There's that same damn random(?) number again.) ;-)

Now, back to trading - when I re-started my trading plan a while ago, I had no problem getting from 100 to 400 with steady and fairly consistent profits. However, when I decided I didn't want to wait to let the account grow, I decided to add another 1k to it. Suddenly, that week became one of the most awkward I had to deal with in long while, but thankfully I regained my composure (and refocused on my trading plan) and still ended up with a positive result.

I believe one of the major factors linked to my initial behaviour that week was directly related to subconsciously knowing that I had more capital and thus could put more trades on...and perhaps not with the same thoughtful timing or planning as I had previously. Or maybe I was overconfident that I could let some trades go 'just a bit further' into profit, just to see them drop back and hit my much lower TPSL(take profit stop loss - do people just call them SL's?). Perhaps I fell into a gambling/higher risk mindset due to a larger capital amount? Who knows. All I know is that it was a surprise and a good wake-up call for me.

In any case, I moved onward from there and continued to have good results, with my account sitting at just under 1.9k. I'm back to trading with the same risk ratio I had when I was trading 100 (or actually, just slightly less, to ensure I stay comfortable) and making similar % gains on my account.

When, not if, my account grows to 3k, will that be a shock? No, I don't think so.

How about 5k? 10k? 25k? 100k? No, it will all be relative and thus I will know that the 'risk' I'm taking looks like a hell of a lot more than I traded previously, but actually it's exactly the same. Secondly, as I've gotten used to seeing these amounts (even those in the red), then I will have acclimatised myself to manage the account the same way as I'd done previously (and profitably).

So, back to the plank analogy - I'm now treading the board quite easily 20x 'higher' than it was before, so that's 6 meters off the ground...and no concern about falling. (I also only need to raise the bar just 17x 'higher' and I'll have literally proved you wrong, with 32k in the bank.) ;-)
  • #124
  • Dec 15, 2013 2:09pm Dec 15, 2013 2:09pm
Quoting Nefser
Was reviewing some of the items in this thread and it caught my eye: {quote} You know what? Perhaps you're right, but there's a pretty good chance I could, if I was able to visualise it being the same as it was when it was only 30cm off the ground. But due to inexperience, my nerves/ subconscious may get the better of me and cause me to hesitate, stumble, etc., but not necessarily fall. Perhaps 95% of people might. (There's that same damn random(?) number again.) ;-) Now, back to trading - when I re-started my trading plan a while ago, I had no...
Nice one. That's the way to do it, slowly and surely .
  • #125
  • Dec 19, 2013 10:39am Dec 19, 2013 10:39am
Quoting Nefser
Was reviewing some of the items in this thread and it caught my eye: {quote} You know what? Perhaps you're right, but there's a pretty good chance I could, if I was able to visualise it being the same as it was when it was only 30cm off the ground. But due to inexperience, my nerves/ subconscious may get the better of me and cause me to hesitate, stumble, etc., but not necessarily fall. Perhaps 95% of people might. (There's that same damn random(?) number again.) ;-) Now, back to trading - when I re-started my trading plan a while ago, I had no...
Nice post, i dont know why people say you cannot start with a small account.When infact you should start only with a small account because the first time it might not work out as well.So might it blow up a few accounts before learning the lesson, nobody can get it right at the first time.But with more and more experience traders become unstopable.

If you start with 100$ or € then with a nice 1% or 2% risk you could theoretically get to 1 million $ or € in a year if you can trade very well.Just think about it, if you can make only 1% growth each day then you can hit 1340.88$ in a year, 17979.72$ in the second year..., and your balance grows almost exponentially

But the person who can make 1% steady growth each day can do 10% just as easy, by trading more pairs, each broker gives atleast 50 pairs to trade, so everyone can pick enough of them to trade.Instead if you make 10% growth /day, then by the end of the year with a 100$ account you'd have exactly:

6,292,529,348,567.53 $ =6.2 trillion$

formula of growth rate: initial capital * (1+growth percent/100)^times

=100* (1+0.1)^260.887285 (average tradeable days in a year)
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #126
  • Dec 19, 2013 11:09am Dec 19, 2013 11:09am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Nice post, i dont know why people say you cannot start with a small account.When infact you should start only with a small account because the first time it might not work out as well.So might it blow up a few accounts before learning the lesson, nobody can get it right at the first time.But with more and more experience traders become unstopable. If you start with 100$ or € then with a nice 1% or 2% risk you could theoretically get to 1 million $ or € in a year if you can trade very well.Just think about it, if you can make only 1% growth...
Useless mental masturbation, but i guess everybody has to go through the "i theoretically could earn a trillion dollar" Phase. Been there as well. Focus your energy on risk reduction and finding an edge instead.
  • #127
  • Dec 19, 2013 4:12pm Dec 19, 2013 4:12pm
Quoting Custos
{quote} Useless mental masturbation, but i guess everybody has to go through the "i theoretically could earn a trillion dollar" Phase. Been there as well. Focus your energy on risk reduction and finding an edge instead.
I do, but a mental exercise is always good to find the path in trading.Besides you may think the numbers are absurd but the funny thing is that this can be done if you only have a little bit of edge.The hard part actually is not to make 1 billion dollar, but to make even 1 dollar consistently every day.Because if you can make only 1 dollar consistently every day the same way you can make 1 billion dollar.

So yes i agree with you everyone should emphasize on finding an edge, but risk reduction is not the way how you do it because risk is directly tied to reward, so if you decrease risk you will decrease reward.Instead you must increase the accuracy of the system, or atleast the expectancy of profit.Without those increased, nobody can achieve a holy grail.But if you increase it just enough to have a minimal edge, then you are a billionaire.Its just simple as that.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #128
  • Dec 19, 2013 8:02pm Dec 19, 2013 8:02pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} I do, but a mental exercise is always good to find the path in trading.Besides you may think the numbers are absurd but the funny thing is that this can be done if you only have a little bit of edge.The hard part actually is not to make 1 billion dollar, but to make even 1 dollar consistently every day.Because if you can make only 1 dollar consistently every day the same way you can make 1 billion dollar. So yes i agree with you everyone should emphasize on finding an edge, but risk reduction is not the way how you do it because risk is...
Hey, Proxy, have you ever heard about margin requirements which go up exponentially after you reach a couple of millions, leverage that does otherwise and liquidity limits by which you'll inevitably be affected considering you're gonna generate a billion per day?
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #129
  • Dec 19, 2013 11:41pm Dec 19, 2013 11:41pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} I do, but a mental exercise is always good to find the path in trading.
yeah, normally yes. But making cloud castles on how much you could be making is not leading to anything, except frustration.
Quoting Proximus
{quote}
Besides you may think the numbers are absurd but the funny thing is that this can be done if you only have a little bit of edge.The hard part actually is not to make 1 billion dollar, but to make even 1 dollar consistently every day.Because if you can make only 1 dollar consistently every day the same way you can make 1 billion dollar. So yes i agree with you everyone should emphasize on finding an edge, but risk reduction is not the way how you do it because risk is directly tied to reward, so if you decrease risk you will decrease reward.Instead...
you have a very one-dimensional thinking concerning risk. Risk is only directly tied to reward for the amateurs. With the right system, risk is very low, while potential reward can be staggering (buffett comes to mind), both in terms of win/loss as well as risk/reward. Accuracy of the system is only one side of the medal. Expectancy is always made up of win/loss and risk/reward.
And as was already mentioned, you will run into liquidity problems, once you reach a certain amount. Everything is finite.
But one thing I agree: you need an edge to make money!
  • #130
  • Dec 20, 2013 6:09am Dec 20, 2013 6:09am
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} Hey, Proxy, have you ever heard about margin requirements which go up exponentially after you reach a couple of millions, leverage that does otherwise and liquidity limits by which you'll inevitably be affected considering you're gonna generate a billion per day?
The leverage problem is easy to solve, by putting yourself to 1:1 leverage, there is no point to borrow money from your broker if you have that much in your account.

By the time you run into liquidity problems you already could theoretically make 1m$/day.The upper cap of lot size in MT4 is 10000 lots if i remember correctly, at which 1 pip is 10k $, so by trading only 1 trade with an average 20 pip length its already 200k /day.Which is an average daily salary for a WallStreet CEO, so its nothing exotic yet.But since we would trade like 5-6 trades /day, its easy to make 1 million /day.

And who said you trade only at 1 broker, would you trust 1 broker with your billion dollars? I dont think so, with that capital you would trade with atleast 10 brokers, or make your own investment bank and you get rid of spread then, even better, so, the potential income is pretty much limitless if you think about it

It is the beauty of capitalism .
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #131
  • Dec 20, 2013 7:45am Dec 20, 2013 7:45am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} The leverage problem is easy to solve, by putting yourself to 1:1 leverage, there is no point to borrow money from your broker if you have that much in your account. By the time you run into liquidity problems you already could theoretically make 1m$/day.The upper cap of lot size in MT4 is 10000 lots if i remember correctly, at which 1 pip is 10k $, so by trading only 1 trade with an average 20 pip length its already 200k /day.Which is an average daily salary for a WallStreet CEO, so its nothing exotic yet.But since we would trade like 5-6...
That's very funny!

Although, you'll unlikely be able to get a billion per day even with all the tricks you mentioned.

If you think about it: banks will never EVER let you take so much money - you WILL be hunted and burned.

Million is theoretically possible, billion - no way.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #132
  • Dec 20, 2013 7:53am Dec 20, 2013 7:53am
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote}Million is theoretically possible, billion - no way.
The way money is devaluing a billion is the new million.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #133
  • Dec 20, 2013 8:18am Dec 20, 2013 8:18am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} The way money is devaluing a billion is the new million.
Well, sooner or later the world's current monetary system is bound to collapse anyway...
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #134
  • Dec 20, 2013 8:22am Dec 20, 2013 8:22am
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} Well, sooner or later the world's current monetary system is bound to collapse anyway...
In any case THIS ain't gonna last forever:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...31022_scam.jpg
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #135
  • Dec 20, 2013 6:19pm Dec 20, 2013 6:19pm
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} That's very funny! Although, you'll unlikely be able to get a billion per day even with all the tricks you mentioned. If you think about it: banks will never EVER let you take so much money - you WILL be hunted and burned. Million is theoretically possible, billion - no way.
Hunted? Why, they will love me, since i wont put my money under my pillow, but i will store it in a bank deposit so they dont lose liquidity, and it helps them to lend more money away and that will increase their profit too.

Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} In any case THIS ain't gonna last forever: {image}
Glad that i live in the EU, things are not that bad around here, except that time-to-time a few countries need a bailout but thats still not that bad.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #136
  • Dec 20, 2013 6:28pm Dec 20, 2013 6:28pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Hunted? Why, they will love me, since i wont put my money under my pillow, but i will store it in a bank deposit so they dont lose liquidity, and it helps them to lend more money away and that will increase their profit too. {quote} Glad that i live in the EU, things are not that bad around here, except that time-to-time a few countries need a bailout but thats still not that bad.

To countries, money is just numbers it's not really real as such, so wouldn't worry to much they'll write it off, print more, bla bla bla and so the world keeps turning, basically it's all BS!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #137
  • Dec 20, 2013 8:13pm Dec 20, 2013 8:13pm
Quoting Proximus
Glad that i live in the EU, things are not that bad around here, except that time-to-time a few countries need a bailout but thats still not that bad.
Huh, so you think if dollar collapses Euro will be still doing good? I assure you it won't...

Anyway, I'm not an economist but saying 'things are not that bad around EU' - shows you simply don't know much about it...
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #138
  • Dec 20, 2013 8:14pm Dec 20, 2013 8:14pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} To countries, money is just numbers it's not really real as such, so wouldn't worry to much they'll write it off, print more, bla bla bla and so the world keeps turning, basically it's all BS!!
Yep Turv, had it been as you say - you'd probably be right...
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #139
  • Dec 20, 2013 8:27pm Dec 20, 2013 8:27pm
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} Huh, so you think if dollar collapses Euro will be still doing good? I assure you it won't... Anyway, I'm not an economist but saying 'things are not that bad around EU' - shows you simply don't know much about it...

Come on, Greece was it, went bankrupt bail out, bla bla bla can't remember what happened all seemed to blow over, it's in no bodys interest to go and close shop completely, it's just games being played, numbers being moved around which are too big to comprehend.

As long as someone is profiting from it, then the numbers will continue to move around, greed is a big motivator.

Also not an economist, just old enough to have seen it all before.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #140
  • Dec 20, 2013 8:43pm Dec 20, 2013 8:43pm
Quoting Turveyd
it's just games being played
Games come to an end eventually. This one will soon too.
Quoting Turveyd
numbers being moved around which are too big to comprehend. As long as someone is profiting from it, then the numbers will continue to move around, greed is a big motivator.
Someone, undoubtedly, is profiting - those who give money to people. For them motivation is so huge that they keep on doing this until it suddenly stops working - hopefully, not on their watch.
Quoting Turveyd
Also not an economist, just old enough to have seen it all before.
Point is it's a LOT different this time and nothing close to what's going on now have ever taken place before.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
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