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Real Fx traders do not use stoploss

  • #321
  • Dec 13, 2013 2:18am Dec 13, 2013 2:18am
Quoting KingKaivar
Trading is about risk management. If you're not using a stop loss, you're not managing your downside risk (unless you believe in risking 100% equity). How many losers are you going to keep open until they turn profitable, if at all? Where is your escape hatch? Successful businessmen like Richard Branson cut losing businesses fast. They don't wait years or decades just to close at breakeven. There's alot of awful information in this thread.

Yes. I'll just add yours to the list. :-/
  • #322
  • Edited 2:37am Dec 13, 2013 2:19am | Edited 2:37am
Quoting pharley
Is it possible to trade without a stop loss? Yes, this is the way I trade. However what you must be able to do is analyse the market structure and where price is in relation to major support and resistance levels, and what the trend is. If you can do that, you wait for your signal for entry then enter. Here's an interesting exercise. Open up your platform and look at your trade history. Sort it on the loss/profit column so your losses appear at the top. Now go and look at the chart where your loss occurred - it probably hit your stop loss. Now look...
I do the exactly the same, I started making nice gains once I stopped using a stop loss and I also felt a lot more relaxed with my trades knowing I can't be taken out, I just use smallish lot sizes for my account and average out positions if I need too. I have to admit I got myself into a couple of bad situations over the year, but I made very poor decisions and it could easily have been avoided(I got lazy) my winning percentage would be over 90% for the year otherwise but I have made over 12,000pips, also had 3-4months of 99% wins and 5000+pips and my only loss was 35pips! and this would not have been achieved or been even half that amount had I used a stop.

Id encourage people to try it, use a smaller position than normal and figure out how many pips your account can handle against you and how many positions, I think with my lot size I could take 3000-4000pips before it becoming an issue, I had previously taken positions every 40-50pips when against and this was what got me into some difficulties on the jpy pairs if they had gone 400pips on the first position, I now leave till the market gives a signal to add to the position so this could be anything from 100-300pips apart, so then just requiring 50-150 to break even.

Plenty of times I had 10 or so positions on the same pair come back to the first poor trade and continue in that direction too, which was how I got some of the bigger gains
  • #323
  • Dec 13, 2013 2:55am Dec 13, 2013 2:55am
Quoting humility
There are things we do as traders,that are wrong even in the sight of God. Despite the fact that we talk about greed,we seem not to see when we ourselves are greedy. Greed to a forex trader can Hide under figures. You have an account of $5000 and you say I want my daily target to be 25% .It is good ,it is acheivable, many peolple do that. You will never be classified as greedy till something goes wrong with your account. the greed could just come in in a single day,it could come in in an hour. You first think it as a thought. You want a new car,...
\

God bless you my friend!!!
  • #324
  • Dec 13, 2013 5:43am Dec 13, 2013 5:43am
trading without a SL? not for pros, maybe wannabe's. Even if this was possible, the risk management dept would be on your neck
  • #325
  • Dec 13, 2013 5:59am Dec 13, 2013 5:59am
Quoting Danny Maina
Even if this was possible, the risk management dept would be on your neck
What? "Even if this was possible..." You're just talking nonsense.

It is possible, but perhaps not exactly as you'd think. Many of 'us' trade without a negative SL on our initial trade - or at least I do.

I DO use SL's but only as a BE or TP point. I do place smaller, offsetting positions well out of range (much farther than I'd want to put a SL) and I manage those offset positions as and when I need to, which isn't often.

Instead, I will watch how a trade position may move into the red and then back into the black. I will set a 'risk mgmt/TPSL' on the first trade and then put a compounding trade in as the price moves in my direction. And repeat. Adjust the offset's as necessary to keep them at an appropriate range.

I'm essentially only ever 'exposed' over one trade. That's essentially it.
  • #326
  • Dec 23, 2013 12:37pm Dec 23, 2013 12:37pm
I saw that some brokers do not give your SL at the specific price i place if market goes fast against me, but when i put a TP, i get that price no matter what. I find that not to be fair, can someone explain why this is happening? Now i only place SL when i leave a position over night. Is this good solution?
  • #327
  • Dec 23, 2013 2:49pm Dec 23, 2013 2:49pm
Quoting Danny Maina
trading without a SL? not for pros, maybe wannabe's. Even if this was possible, the risk management dept would be on your neck
On the contrary, big players like banks managing millions or more trade without setting a stop loss. They only use a "mental" stop loss and will look to get out in the best way possible if their trades don't work out. They have a good feel for the market and know when their positions won't work. When you're handling such huge volumes, having a stop loss hit will drive price against you and will only make you lose more.

Personally, I set a 1:1 "disaster" stop loss that if hit, I am out no matter what. Besides that, I also try to get a feel for the market and just get out when I know I'm wrong. This "mental" stop is the stop that can lead to 1:2 or better. Of course that's only my way of doing it. If you can't watch your positions you obviously should set a stop, just kept it far enough so you don't get stopped out only to see price go your way.

And if you were referring to without a SL meaning a "mental" stop too, just disregard my post. However, I still think it may be insightful to newbies.
  • #328
  • Jan 10, 2014 10:59pm Jan 10, 2014 10:59pm
Quoting FXMasterSK
{quote} On the contrary, big players like banks managing millions or more trade without setting a stop loss. They only use a "mental" stop loss and will look to get out in the best way possible if their trades don't work out. They have a good feel for the market and know when their positions won't work. When you're handling such huge volumes, having a stop loss hit will drive price against you and will only make you lose more. Personally, I set a 1:1 "disaster" stop loss that if hit, I am out no matter what. Besides that, I also try to get a feel...

The thing is we are not as big as they are. Although what you said is true, a new comer might take it seriously and stop trading with stop-losses. At our stage, its a must, and until we reach the banking level its better to make it an habit
  • #329
  • Jan 11, 2014 8:29am Jan 11, 2014 8:29am
You must always use a stop-loss order, people who do not are not professional traders!
  • #330
  • Jan 11, 2014 10:20am Jan 11, 2014 10:20am
Quoting Tom_d
{quote} I do the exactly the same, I started making nice gains once I stopped using a stop loss and I also felt a lot more relaxed with my trades knowing I can't be taken out, I just use smallish lot sizes for my account and average out positions if I need too. I have to admit I got myself into a couple of bad situations over the year, but I made very poor decisions and it could easily have been avoided(I got lazy) my winning percentage would be over 90% for the year otherwise but I have made over 12,000pips, also had 3-4months of 99% wins and 5000+pips...
Way to go Tom! Good to see there are others that figured out how to succeed without using SL. I'm doing a very similar strategy as you Tom. Made over 11,000 pips last year with over 900 trades and winning close to 94% of them. ALL without a SL. I think to trade like this you need to have a decent size account to withstand 1,000's of pip draw down and be able to add to your positions by scaling in at wide ranges of 200-300 pips or more. I made close to 450% last year trading like this and now am trading an account of around $250K. This IS not for everyone but it does work for me and it's good to see some others as well!
  • #331
  • Jan 11, 2014 10:44am Jan 11, 2014 10:44am
trading without SL?

probably if you have very small r:r ?

but what if your trades goes the other way and does not come back?
  • #332
  • Jan 11, 2014 11:06am Jan 11, 2014 11:06am
The way I see it money can be made with or without using stop losses, but the real pros definitely use stop losses.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #333
  • Jan 12, 2014 12:32pm Jan 12, 2014 12:32pm
Quoting Vitez
trading without SL? probably if you have very small r:r ? but what if your trades goes the other way and does not come back?
low r:r against 90% of probability with multi entry... there is something to think about...
JacekPreserve Precious Capital
  • #334
  • Jan 12, 2014 1:21pm Jan 12, 2014 1:21pm
Quoting merlin
{quote} pro fx traders (the kind that work at banks, which it sounds like you are talking about) DO use stoplosses. maybe they dont place a stoploss order, but they have a mental stop. the reason they dont actually place the order ahead of time is because they sit in front of their monitor while trading, and they have good disapline to get out when they need to. they also have a good feel for order flow because they are on a trading desk.
Hello Dear Merlin,

I couldn't agree with you more.
I think every one must have to use stop losses to stay alive in the highly volatile market. Money Management cum risk ration, position sizing can vital role with your accounts. Proper stop losses can lead to success.... :-)

Best of luck to your trades guys!
  • #335
  • Jan 12, 2014 1:43pm Jan 12, 2014 1:43pm
Quoting Blackship
hi guys, I've heard that pro fx traders who do not use stop losses and this had contributed much controvesy. Anyone who approve or disapprove please comment
seems a very risky way of trading, using no stop loss. sounds like eventually it will end in disastor whether you are pro or not. i think maybe liquidity may be the only reason to sometimes not use a SL becuase market cannot handle closing whole position if it is large.
  • #336
  • Jan 19, 2014 3:35am Jan 19, 2014 3:35am
Not using a stop-loss means your ego is to big to admit you're wrong.
  • #337
  • Jan 19, 2014 3:43am Jan 19, 2014 3:43am
Quoting thehouse
Not using a stop-loss means your ego is to big to admit you're wrong.
When I am wrong, I am wrong and have no problem to admit this.... SL is an element of system, element of money and risk managemet.
Risk management this is a case, not ego.
JacekPreserve Precious Capital
  • #338
  • Jan 19, 2014 3:53am Jan 19, 2014 3:53am
I guess I am not a real trader because I use stop loss ALL THE TIME.

Remember this, small losers are way much EASIER to recover than big losers.

Your money, your decision.

Cheers,
FxTurtle
Fear prevent possibilities, and so does Greed
  • #339
  • Jan 20, 2014 3:26pm Jan 20, 2014 3:26pm
The only thing that you can control in trading is how much you're going to lose; therefore it is beyond me why somebody would relinquish this power with no discernible upside to doing so. Every successful business has both gross and net profit and the same applies to trading. Treat your stop loss as a way to control your expenses. Put another way, would you sign a contract with someone to perform a specific type of task for your business with a figure left blank in terms of how much you were going to pay them for performing that task? Absolutely not, but that's what it amounts to when you trade without a stop loss. Once you learn to accept stop losses this game becomes a whole lot easier.
  • #340
  • Jan 20, 2014 6:25pm Jan 20, 2014 6:25pm
For some day traders the just open their position and close it within several hours or minutes. Stoploss is manually controlled, I suppose.
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