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There is no Holy Grail

  • #61
  • Dec 8, 2013 12:07am Dec 8, 2013 12:07am
Quoting Chicky
{quote} My Friend ................................. I cannot break my promise. As mentioned earlier in my several posts, I will never give out my best method. However, there are few other methods I shared that are good enough to remain consistently profitable. But I will disclose this mehtod one second after Cocacola discloses their secret formula, that's a promise.................. Don't forget trading is a business.
Online or offline, no matter what forum it is ................................... we decide its direction and contents......... and the way we choose to.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #62
  • Dec 8, 2013 12:14am Dec 8, 2013 12:14am
Quoting Chicky
{quote} Online or offline, no matter what forum it is ................................... we decide its direction and contents......... and the way we choose to.
LOL. I was at some other thread just before writing the above two posts, and wrote both of these in context of discussions on that thread. Please ignore these two replies.................. that thread is regarding Holy Grail.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #63
  • Dec 8, 2013 12:18am Dec 8, 2013 12:18am
Quoting Chicky
{quote} LOL. I was at some other thread just before writing the above two posts, and wrote both of these in context of discussions on that thread. Please ignore these two replies.................. that thread is regarding Holy Grail.
LOL again.................... Ignore my above post and unignore the two replies preceding the previous one..................... my bad, this IS the Holy Grail thread..................... Let me open another bottle of Vodka
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #64
  • Dec 8, 2013 12:24am Dec 8, 2013 12:24am
Whoever started this thread will first be very happy tomorrow morning to see number of replies on his/her thread, then a long stream of extraction requests will follow.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #65
  • Dec 8, 2013 2:05am Dec 8, 2013 2:05am
If you have $1.000.000 to trade would you keep it all with the brokers(s)?…… I do not not think so.. it will be too risky…. 20% of it will be enough, the remaining $800000 will be kept in a saver place...

With a decent system and money management method it is very unlikely that you will lose all the $200000 ……….

So to trade a $100000, only a $20000 is needed. I think between 5 to 10 % average a month is doable if one stick to his system……some months will be better than others, but what counts is what one produced at the end of the year…..
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #66
  • Dec 8, 2013 2:10am Dec 8, 2013 2:10am
Chicky, that was some interesting reading, and Mr. X is definitely doing what other traders who are successful are doing. For some strange reason though, many people are not responsive to the way he and a few others trade.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #67
  • Dec 8, 2013 2:11am Dec 8, 2013 2:11am
Quoting milam
If you have $1.000.000 to trade would you keep it all with the brokers(s)?…… I do not not think so.. it will be too risky…. 20% of it will be enough, the remaining $800000 will be kept in a saver place... With a decent system and money management method it is very unlikely that you will lose all the $200000 ………. So to trade a $100000, only a $20000 is needed. I think between 5 to 10 % average a month is doable if one stick to his system……some months will be better than others, but what counts is what one produced at the end of the year…..
If you have $1,000,000 to trade would you keep it all with the brokers(s)?…… I do not not think so.. it will be too risky…. 20% of it will be enough, the remaining $800,000 will be kept in a saver place... With a decent system and money management method it is very unlikely that you will lose all the $200,000 ………. So to trade a $100,000, only a $20,000 is needed. I think between 5 to 10 % average a month is doable if one stick to his system……some months will be better than others, but what counts is what one produced at the end of the year

Now I feel better...................... figures without commas are numbers
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #68
  • Dec 8, 2013 2:13am Dec 8, 2013 2:13am
Quoting Chicky
{quote} If you have $1,000,000 to trade would you keep it all with the brokers(s)?…… I do not not think so.. it will be too risky…. 20% of it will be enough, the remaining $800,000 will be kept in a saver place... With a decent system and money management method it is very unlikely that you will lose all the $200,000 ………. So to trade a $100,000, only a $20,000 is needed. I think between 5 to 10 % average a month is doable if one stick to his system……some months will be better than others, but what counts is what one produced at the end of the year...
Lol

Thank you...

Does it make sense to you?
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #69
  • Edited 2:28am Dec 8, 2013 2:16am | Edited 2:28am
Quoting milam
{quote} Lol Thank you... Does it make sense to you?
a lot of sense. This is exactly the way it should be. Thanks for sharing.

ps. But if traders want to reduce the idle capacity of their investment, may use more than one broker keeping certain percentage of their capitals with each one of them. Higher percentage with more reliable brokers.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #70
  • Dec 8, 2013 2:30am Dec 8, 2013 2:30am
Quoting Chicky
{quote} a lot of sense. This is exactly the way it should be. Thanks for sharing.
Good. There a millions decent systems out there, if one finds a system that relates to his personality and sticks with it during the negative (financial) periods, he/she will find the holy grail, there is not just one holy grail, there a various for each personality. To find it one has also invest in him/her self and it will do so, especially during his negative (financial) periods turning them into positive developments….

Below his a system that I traded in the past and it will produce above 50% per year…but that is not the point...
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf SFT_Simple_Strategy-2.pdf   222 KB | 732 downloads
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #71
  • Dec 8, 2013 2:40am Dec 8, 2013 2:40am
Also, if I may say…..

Once you find a system, you have to believe in it, because by believe in it, you will sleep at night, you know that it will lose but you also know that those are your cost in running a business, successful trading is a business, if we find ourself excited or upset during or after the trades, it mean that we still have a lot to do..and the holy grail is not near.

In my view a trader should work on himself, that is the true holy grail, 90% of traders focus on things that are not relevant in todays trading, they think they can conquer the market by "knowledge".. One has to conquer himself in todays market before anything else……
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #72
  • Dec 8, 2013 2:57am Dec 8, 2013 2:57am
130+ live trades, 68% W/L ratio, 650+% ROI todate. It's out there...
  • #73
  • Dec 8, 2013 3:36am Dec 8, 2013 3:36am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} I just happen to have a very good system as described above, i can prove that the holy grail exists after i finish my research on it.
Come back here again when you can prove
  • #74
  • Dec 8, 2013 4:08am Dec 8, 2013 4:08am
Quoting milam
Also, if I may say….. Once you find a system, you have to believe in it, because by believe in it, you will sleep at night, you know that it will lose but you also know that those are your cost in running a business, successful trading is a business, if we find ourself excited or upset during or after the trades, it mean that we still have a lot to do..and the holy grail is not near. In my view a trader should work on himself, that is the true holy grail, 90% of traders focus on things that are not relevant in todays trading, they think they can...
milam, what do you mean when you say, conquer yourself?
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #75
  • Dec 8, 2013 4:39am Dec 8, 2013 4:39am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} milam, what do you mean when you say, conquer yourself?
not letting emotions sabotage your journey of being a decent trader…..Attitude, discipline and state of mind need to be learned…..conquer yourself.
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #76
  • Dec 8, 2013 5:17am Dec 8, 2013 5:17am
Quoting milam
{quote} not letting emotions sabotage your journey of being a decent trader…..Attitude, discipline and state of mind need to be learned…..conquer yourself.

I agree. I remember when I would be all exited when I made money and kick the dog when I lost money. Getting past that is what makes one a professional, I think.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #77
  • Dec 8, 2013 5:37am Dec 8, 2013 5:37am
Last night I wanted to step in and get Lib3rty some room to breathe in his own thread, but I was feeling too tired to do so at the time. I'm more rested now...

Quoting Custos
{quote} Sorry but that is a load of crap. Account size means nothing. The difference between a successful and an unsuccessful trader is not the account size, but his trading system and his understanding of the market. The money management employed will just tell you how fast you will lose your entire account (prerequisite: you have a crappy trading system). So your 100K account might go bust in 5 years, because you have such a conservative money management, while a 10K account will go down within a few months or one year time. And making 2% profit...

In a world inhabited by perfect human beings you would be right that the OP claims are a 'load of crap'. Yet, such world does not exist, such humans do not exist... Imho, the OP claim does have merit, and consequently does not deserve being discarded so quickly, and with such authority.

Your main point is that edge alone, rather than MM, explains success. On this, I agree with you to a certain extent. Having an edge is a prerequisite for success. However, edge alone does not suffice to explain success. Success is like a recipe. It is derived from a combination of variables rather than one single variable. MM works the way you've described and is one of those variables. MM is relevant to success, because MM moderates edge's effect (ie, in order to result in success, the edge needs MM that takes into account its limits).

Edge in and by itself can only explain success, assuming the premise that a perfectly rational human being is not only possible but the norm. The evidence collected so far suggests otherwise. We humans are irrational in our decision-making process more often than not, although after the fact we do like to rationalize our decisions. That said, in the real world, a trader that knows he/she has a sound edge over the market will not necessarily be reasonable enough to apply proper MM as explained in last paragraph. Consequently, success may continue to elude the trader. The trader might not necessarily be reasonable enough to apply sensible MM to a proven edge, because MM use itself is moderated by other variables, much like edge effect is moderated by MM.

The OP talks about starting capital and you talk about MM. These are not the same thing. Starting capital is one of the variables that moderates MM use, it is not MM. Other variable is living expenses as mentioned by the OP. Thus, two traders having the same high degree of confidence in the same proven edge and the same living expenses, but differing in starting capital (one has a small account, the other has a big account), are very likely to vary widely in their approach to MM. Which takes us to the OP's point. The big account trader is very likely to use MM that respects the limits of the edge, whereas the small account trader is very likely to use MM with disregard for the limits of the edge. That said, the OP's point is not only correct, unfortunately it impacts negatively most of us. More awareness should be given to how starting capital affects our trading results, not less.

Last but not least, and speaking at a more objective level, brokerages usually do not treat 10k, 100k, 1million costumers all the same. The more capital a costumer has in the account the greater the bargaining power he/she has with the broker. We are talking about better spreads, rebates, commissions, or even execution. While these benefits will not make an unprofitable trader profitable, they can certainly make a profitable trader even more profitable. So, fact is trading capital does matter, regardless of one's own opinion.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #78
  • Dec 8, 2013 5:49am Dec 8, 2013 5:49am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} milam, what do you mean when you say, conquer yourself?
jmn5611, we [me and milam] already wrote about it like at least a couple of times in this thread, no to mention other sources we referenced here...
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #79
  • Dec 8, 2013 8:52am Dec 8, 2013 8:52am
I think it's mainly the attitude that makes you a success or failure in this but yes, losing $1k is easier than losing $10k.
  • #80
  • Dec 8, 2013 10:25am Dec 8, 2013 10:25am
If a larger account does not put the probability of success higher than that of a small account, how come Brokers do not offer demo accounts with a $2000 starting pot? Answer is msot people would blow the sum very fast and get a negative impression of Forex.
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