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Stop Hunting

  • #201
  • Edited 8:07am Jul 4, 2006 5:41am | Edited 8:07am
If you are going to arbitrage the broker, that would be difficult and time consuming. I use the price action patterns that become apparent from the larger institutional players and attempt to mimic their moves. One can see when they are attacking a popular price stop area... There was once a thread discussing this, but the author decided to withdraw the information.

Scott


Quoting happy camper
I have been trading for a year now and this is the firs time I heard about this. Yesterday I read the whole 14 pages + some links and I must say I was shocked. After realizing the reality I knew I had to change some things about my trading because those things happend to me in the past with my broker but I could not explain them because I didn't know they even exist.

And you said it the best - If you can't beat em join em...

Please correct me if I am wrong,but it seems to me all you need is a third party live quotes providor.I think i already figured it out how to make stop hunt into your advantage.
I don't know if this is an appropriate question,but I'll shot away anyway
Do I have to have real time bank quotes or is it enough to have anothers broker demo?

Or am I way of with this thing?

Thanks
  • #202
  • Jul 4, 2006 7:46am Jul 4, 2006 7:46am
Quoting Claude
Unfortunately there is nothing new here, brokers, market makers have always manipulated price to their advantage.

It is all part of the game in trading futures I had one broker tell me if I could stand it to simply stop trading.

Of course, the electronic age has made it more difficult now as you can see many traders have different feeds and can protect themselves.((Buyer beware))

On the other hand is also made it easier for your brokers as their sophisticated software shows exactly where everybody stops are, heck OandA, even provides this information on a graph. Not as in depth as they have I am certain, but still.

As far as the name of the broker that did this. It honestly doesn't really matter to me if you wanna make a difference. If you really want to send a message start trading with ECN direct routing no dealing desk. They truly have no reason to hunt down your stops.

There is a couple of the ECN that even have public statement saying they do not have and will not invest in any type of software to see where their client stops are positioned.

To me trading with an ECN with no dealing desk and direct routing
would be the only way to send a strong message.

Investigate it the ECN I deal with usually has a one pip spread on the currencies that I trade, and then charge me $1 dollar for a mini lot. 10$for regular lot Round-trip commission.

So I'd say that's pretty fair as far as commissions and spread go.
Hi Claude,

I am a trader that has been trading in volume lately(100-120 lots per trade)

I am interested in moving from my three brokers to an "ECN with no dealing desk and direct routing"

Can you please tell me more about it.

Thanks

Jacko
  • #203
  • Jul 5, 2006 8:37am Jul 5, 2006 8:37am
Quoting jacko
Hi Claude,

I am a trader that has been trading in volume lately(100-120 lots per trade)

I am interested in moving from my three brokers to an "ECN with no dealing desk and direct routing"

Can you please tell me more about it.

Thanks

Jacko
Can anyone help in this matter??

Jacko
  • #204
  • Jul 5, 2006 9:44am Jul 5, 2006 9:44am
A few ECN type brokers are:

Interactive Brokers
HotspotFX
CoesFX
MB Trading

I have no direct experience with any of these.
  • #205
  • Jul 5, 2006 10:43am Jul 5, 2006 10:43am
Quoting nyctrader
A few ECN type brokers are:

Interactive Brokers
HotspotFX
CoesFX
MB Trading

I have no direct experience with any of these.
Thanks nyctrader,

Why isn't everyone using these brokers if all the retail brokers are stop-hunting all their clients' positions ?
  • #206
  • Jul 5, 2006 11:52am Jul 5, 2006 11:52am
Quoting jacko
Why isn't everyone using these brokers if all the retail brokers are stop-hunting all their clients' positions ?
I cannot speak for everyone, but I recently closed my account at MB Trading. I trade "live", multiple lots (standard). On the upside, MB Trading executes orders during times of high volatility, such as NFP news announcements. However, you cannot hedge currency pairs with trailing stops in MBT. MBT has something called "Market plus TTO" which essentially allows you to create a stop plus a take profit target and loss target (but not a trailing stop). Inadequate for my trading strategy.

I moved to FXSol and have no complaints. You can create hedges with multiple stop loss/limits attached to each trade. Performed admirably during last week's FOMC announcement, when GBP/USD moved nearly 200 pips. While some traders in this forum complain about FXSol, I've not had any issues.

Just information: not a recommendation.
  • #207
  • Jul 5, 2006 12:22pm Jul 5, 2006 12:22pm
Quoting jacko
Why isn't everyone using these brokers if all the retail brokers are stop-hunting all their clients' positions ?
One reason is the much higher minimum deposits required.
  • #208
  • Jul 5, 2006 12:30pm Jul 5, 2006 12:30pm
Quoting MoneyMa$ter
I cannot speak for everyone, but I recently closed my account at MB Trading. I trade "live", multiple lots (standard). On the upside, MB Trading executes orders during times of high volatility, such as NFP news announcements. However, you cannot hedge currency pairs with trailing stops in MBT. MBT has something called "Market plus TTO" which essentially allows you to create a stop plus a take profit target and loss target (but not a trailing stop). Inadequate for my trading strategy.

I moved to FXSol and have no complaints. You can create hedges with multiple stop loss/limits attached to each trade. Performed admirably during last week's FOMC announcement, when GBP/USD moved nearly 200 pips. While some traders in this forum complain about FXSol, I've not had any issues.

Just information: not a recommendation.
Your problem is compatability and not the fault of MB Trading. By moving to FXsol do you know if it ia an ECN broker and is your deposit with them separated from their company's expenditure ?
Hibbiz is my consulting firm and my advise to my clients is two major points. 1. Refco is a good lesson. Protect ALL your money. Make sure that your deposit is held by a GOOD bank separated from your broker's daily running expenditure. 2. Have no back dealing desk for the obvious reason that had been discussed.
Anything else, change your broker if it is not compatible to your trading system.
Two points to take note. With ECN brokers you need to to have a large deposit and mini lots normally ( not always ) starts at USD100'000.00
Second, non ECN brokers can take you in with as low as a few hundred dollars but with substantial Refco kind of risk. In such a case choose one that other brokers will still want to buy it in case it goes under.
Highway
  • #209
  • Jul 5, 2006 1:07pm Jul 5, 2006 1:07pm
Quoting jacko
Can anyone help in this matter??

Jacko
Also try dukascopy.
  • #210
  • Jul 5, 2006 1:20pm Jul 5, 2006 1:20pm
Quoting highway3000
By moving to FXsol do you know if it ia an ECN broker and is your deposit with them separated from their company's expenditure ?
Highway,

FXSol is not an ECN broker. I vaguely recall reading something like 99.5% of their trades are executed via technology with no human intervention. I'll have to check on whether FXSol segregates trading deposit.

With FXSol, I trade standard lots ($100,000), as many as 100 per trade. FXSol accomodates an even larger lot ($1,000,000 or the equivalent of 10 standard lots). I'm looking for a broker/bank/ECN (whoever) to trade upwards of 2000 standard lots, credible execution during volatility, with minimum of 100:1 leverage, and hedge/trailing stop capabilities. I've considered OANDA and also Swiss Forex??, which doesn't accept American accounts.

What say you?
  • #211
  • Jul 5, 2006 1:33pm Jul 5, 2006 1:33pm
Quoting MoneyMa$ter
Highway,

FXSol is not an ECN broker. I vaguely recall reading something like 99.5% of their trades are executed via technology with no human intervention. I'll have to check on whether FXSol segregates trading deposit.
You're correct. They also do have a limit on lot size. It may be twenty standard lots. You can online chat them and ask.

They do have a money manager account that allows for more lot usage, but you have to meet the requirements to trade it.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #212
  • Jul 5, 2006 1:49pm Jul 5, 2006 1:49pm
Qoute :

I've considered OANDA and also Swiss Forex??, which doesn't accept American accounts.


Swiss Forex has been mentioned many times on this Forum. Does it not " ring a bell " when it does not accept American Funds ? Have you heard of Swiss not accepting anyone's account due to nationality ?

Where is it registered ? Where is your deposit sent to ? In my experience it does not sound swiss registered ? Anyone can give better informations for the FF readers ?

Highway
  • #213
  • Jul 5, 2006 2:22pm Jul 5, 2006 2:22pm
Hi,

I used forex-swiss (fxch) in June 06. Despite their claims of 2pip spread, when trading live, their live prices 'sometimes' deviated from their demo price by 3 pips consistently until questioned on live chat and then the live prices reverted back to demo prices. Price spikes up to 10 pips appear in live prices which don't appear in demo prices.

Their live chat is not 24/5 and phone lines can by 'busy' supporting other clients, so you may not get through at a critical time.

I closed my account with them after 1 week.

Best regards
Alan
  • #214
  • Jul 5, 2006 4:10pm Jul 5, 2006 4:10pm
Quoting firehorse
Hi,

I used forex-swiss (fxch) in June 06. Despite their claims of 2pip spread, when trading live, their live prices 'sometimes' deviated from their demo price by 3 pips consistently until questioned on live chat and then the live prices reverted back to demo prices. Price spikes up to 10 pips appear in live prices which don't appear in demo prices.

Their live chat is not 24/5 and phone lines can by 'busy' supporting other clients, so you may not get through at a critical time.

I closed my account with them after 1 week.

Best regards
Alan
Hi Firehourse / Alan and others.
Have a look below.
The white cross with background red is the Swiss flag.
Salzburg is in Austria. Probably just a telephone contact. I don't know. Read further and you see it is Registered in Rep Dominic - Offshore ! ! That is probably the reason why they do not take US clients.
Everyone wants a Swiss LOGO or a telephone line in Switzerland since it is a financial prestige. Trader ! Please always pay attention to the country of registration.!
Swiss international telephone starts with 0041....
All those who posted before claiming it as a swiss company has been wrong. All I want to say is it is not govern by Swiss law. Nothing else.
Highway
PS. In general any broker claiming to have no dealing desk, please check which bank is clearing your trades/accounts. Brokers can have no dealing desk but behind the whole thing, brokers could in fact be sub using a dealing desk broker. That means your trades goes through your broker and then is redirected to a dealing desk broker.
Highway.
Attached Image
  • #215
  • Jul 5, 2006 5:03pm Jul 5, 2006 5:03pm
Quoting highway3000
Hi Firehourse / Alan and others.
Have a look below.
The white cross with background red is the Swiss flag.
Salzburg is in Austria. Probably just a telephone contact. I don't know. Read further and you see it is Registered in Rep Dominic - Offshore ! ! That is probably the reason why they do not take US clients.
Everyone wants a Swiss LOGO or a telephone line in Switzerland since it is a financial prestige. Trader ! Please always pay attention to the country of registration.!
Swiss international telephone starts with 0041....
All those who posted before claiming it as a swiss company has been wrong. All I want to say is it is not govern by Swiss law. Nothing else.
Highway
PS. In general any broker claiming to have no dealing desk, please check which bank is clearing your trades/accounts. Brokers can have no dealing desk but behind the whole thing, brokers could in fact be sub using a dealing desk broker. That means your trades goes through your broker and then is redirected to a dealing desk broker.
Highway.
Thanks for that info highway3000, very nice.
  • #216
  • Jul 6, 2006 4:43am Jul 6, 2006 4:43am
Quoting nyctrader
A few ECN type brokers are:

Interactive Brokers
HotspotFX
CoesFX
MB Trading

I have no direct experience with any of these.
What are the major benefits of dealing with these companies rather than the Retail brokers.



Thanks in advance


Jacko
  • #217
  • Jul 6, 2006 4:58am Jul 6, 2006 4:58am
Quoting jacko
What are the major benefits of dealing with these companies rather than the Retail brokers.



Thanks in advance


Jacko
Try this thread: http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=5043
  • #218
  • Jul 6, 2006 5:49am Jul 6, 2006 5:49am
Quoting stockwet
Try this thread: http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=5043
Thanks stockwet,

Most informative.

Jacko
  • #219
  • Jul 6, 2006 8:53am Jul 6, 2006 8:53am
Quoting MuddBuddha
They also do have a limit on lot size. It may be twenty standard lots. You can online chat them and ask.
Buddha,

Thanks for the input. My minimum trade size with FXSol is 20 standard lots. I've not been required to get management approval, even when trading higher lots. And as far as the platform and execution, it's been cool runnings.
  • #220
  • Jul 6, 2006 9:12am Jul 6, 2006 9:12am
Quoting highway3000
Hi Firehourse / Alan and others.
Have a look below.
The white cross with background red is the Swiss flag.
Salzburg is in Austria. Probably just a telephone contact. I don't know. Read further and you see it is Registered in Rep Dominic - Offshore ! ! That is probably the reason why they do not take US clients.
Everyone wants a Swiss LOGO or a telephone line in Switzerland since it is a financial prestige. Trader ! Please always pay attention to the country of registration.!
Highway.
The broker referred to can be found at Forex-swiss.com. Below is information from their website but as Highway points out, pay attention the country of registration:

*****************************************************

• 2 pips inter-bank spread on all currency pairs, excluding exotics
• Margin: 500:1 or $200 per standard lot and $20 per mini
• Minimum account size is 2000 USD
• No charging interest for open position (in non hedge mode).
Opening accounts in multiple currencies
• Trade mini and standard lots on the same platform and account
• Best trading platform with fastest trade execution
• One-click dealing: No re-quotes or price is out
• No Slippage on Market Orders - the price you see is the price you get!
• No trade rejections in fast market
• Guaranteed Fills on stop Loss and Limit orders
FXCH is not a market maker, does not run a Dealing desk, and does not trade against its clients.
• Full Hedge: open positions on the same currency in opposite directions
• Commission-free trading. We do not charge our customers commissions on any trade
• Limited risk: no Negative Balances. You will never owe more than you have in your account

• We regret NO US clients

24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Our best online trading platform designed specifically for the individual online investors who prefer to handle their finances online with little or no dealer contact. The Company is registered as Foreign Exchange Clearing House in January 2004. The Company's registration number is 9126, and authorized to deal in Foreign Exchange market, shares, futures, options, commodities, and securities. FXCH is a primary market maker in foreign exchange trading. It was founded by experienced foreign exchange traders and managers to bring the professional advantages of the Interbank market to the OTC client.

************************************
Just information; not a recommendation.
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