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Show Trade Explorer, why Yes or why Not...

  • #21
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:10am Nov 19, 2013 2:10am
you see folks..

You would hardly or see any thread that its supported with a TE anyone complains about its existent.. but you would see mostly and all the time that when a OP gains some ground on a thread then people would want to see action on it by the leader, its only natural and make sense to most if not all.. that's just simple and evident all times.

its like you in real life you see a real person who is a real successful trader, and it turns out that he is a very generous and genuine guy and is willing to help you out up on your request. would you want to sit next to him see him in action as he teaches you or still keeps you on the side like give you notes in hindsight!!..
or which one would help you more or do harm.. think about it.
TE, myfxbook etc exist bcz of cyber world to take the place for the reality.

If i meet Soros i want to see next to him and not meet him at coffee shop listen to his words, and I know so do most people.. you get my drift.
  • #22
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:16am Nov 19, 2013 2:16am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} We have already agreed that there is no 100% mechanical system. Therefore, by definition every system has a degree of discretion attached to it. Therefore a TE is completely useless because, as I said, it show ONLY that the TE owner can be profitable with the system.
The problem is your insisting on PROOF.. TE serves it best and purpose for the real time action.. i can care or less if the guy is plotting superstar scores.. but what more is served to the prospect is the process of seeing ones teaching matches the real time trading minute by minute and then he/she can work on the personal flaws and to study the foot print to see where he when wrong when the OP did not.. what did the OP took into consideration and what he did not and how he can improve it by sticking with this guy for some time to sharp the skill or method etc..
its not all about proof, its about the process that makes the learning progress even much better with full clarity.. it can not be harmful.

I don't think I can say it anymore clear.
  • #23
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:19am Nov 19, 2013 2:19am
Quoting Provolone
you see folks.. You would hardly or see any thread that its supported with a TE anyone complains about its existent.. but you would see mostly and all the time that when a OP gains some ground on a thread then people would want to see action on it by the leader, its only natural and make sense to most if not all.. that's just simple and evident all times. its like you in real life you see a real person who is a real successful trader, and it turns out that he is a very generous and genuine guy and is willing to help you out up on your request. would...
So then what you are really wanting is to see 'live' trades isn't it?

Then you should have asked that very question instead of beating around the bush as you have done so far!

'Live' trades offer more than any TE can offer, which is just full of hindsight trades that the TE owner would have to review and document in order to justify to the thread his motives for the trade.

No one is going to scroll back through their TE and re-analyze the any particular trade, then document it just to answer the questions as to what were the motives for the trade!! More likely the TE owner will just tell the questioner to look at the TE and chart it for himself.......which will teach the questioner very, very little.

But, a 'live' trade is a different thing completely. In the Genesis thread I make live trades from time to time and I give a running commentary as to what's going on and why I am moving the SL into profit at certain levels blah, blah, blah......and that way, everyone can see the trade from start to finish, win or lose, with 'live' commentary.

'Live' trades have immense value.

Trade Explorers have very little value to anyone other than the TE owner.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #24
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:21am Nov 19, 2013 2:21am
Quoting Provolone
{quote} The problem is your insisting on PROOF.. TE serves it best and purpose for the real time action.. i can care or less if the guy is plotting superstar scores.. but what more is served to the prospect is the process of seeing ones teaching matches the real time trading minute by minute and then he/she can work on the personal flaws and to study the foot print to see where he when wrong when the OP did not.. what did the OP took into consideration and what he did not and how he can improve it by sticking with this guy for some time to sharp...

Completely wrong.

TE shows past history....just numbers and nothing else.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #25
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:22am Nov 19, 2013 2:22am
Quoting Provolone
you see folks.. You would hardly or see any thread that its supported with a TE anyone complains about its existent.. but you would see mostly and all the time that when a OP gains some ground on a thread then people would want to see action on it by the leader, its only natural and make sense to most if not all.. that's just simple and evident all times. its like you in real life you see a real person who is a real successful trader, and it turns out that he is a very generous and genuine guy and is willing to help you out up on your request. would...

You would have a point if a trader was soliciting students. Most traders who put out a system are just putting it out there. If people choose to follow, fine. If not, that okay too. But to sit and demand proof that it works is silly. Find out for yourself if it works for you or not. As RJ said, what works for him may not work for you. Most people should not be trading.....if you get my drift....
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #26
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:28am Nov 19, 2013 2:28am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} You are hearing from experienced traders now. Do not be offended by the input. I have nothing to tone down. Looking for proof of success from people who are not charging you any money is nonsensical. Try their system, if you don't like it, move on. Usually, if you do try a system you will learn a thing or two about yourself and how your mind works. You will also learn more about indicators, price action, etc.
what am I not a experienced trader bcz i posed a discussion!!.. I am not offended either, read my last reply to your buddy realj.. its not all about proof.

some guy is profitable, fine good, lets move on to see how one can get to his level by seeing live action to go by with full confidence and not in the dark to study his moves and trading philosophy as he is trying to teach it or got everyone excited about.

You see my friend.. when discretion become part of a deal, it changes everything, it needs more than just words to be come clearer in the mind of the prospect.. it needs repetition of such action in reality to sink in, that, it is possible and it can be possible consistently.. you may lose here and there but in the end you can get ahead with time. you see the last phrase, that needs reality to back it up in order for the OP's genuine work to dig in and sink-in to serve its good purpose and produce more winners like him/her.
  • #27
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:29am Nov 19, 2013 2:29am
There are many reasons both for and against, but here are two very big factors that often get overlooked in these debates:

1. A successful trader, with significant amounts of money in his trading account is NEVER going to give his account details away for no good reason. Not even to Trade Explorer. Why would he take the risk? Would you give me your bank account number for no reason? So by looking at TE's, right away you are filtering out the top traders and seeking out the best of the rest.

2. Judging other traders or their methods by results will not help you become a better trader. In fact it will only distract you from that which would make you better - thinking through the underlying concepts of the method presented to you. A trading method will only work for you if you truly understand how and why it works, what market phenomena it is exploiting and why those situations occur. Simply looking at TE's is like cheating on a test - you may get the right answer, but without doing the hard work yourself to get there you will suffer for it in the long run.
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
  • #28
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:33am Nov 19, 2013 2:33am
Quoting Provolone
{quote} what am I not a experienced trader bcz i posed a discussion!!.. I am not offended either, read my last reply to your buddy realj.. its not all about proof. some guy is profitable, fine good, lets move on to see how one can get to his level by seeing live action to go by with full confidence and not in the dark to study his moves and trading philosophy as he is trying to teach it or got everyone excited about. You see my friend.. when discretion become part of a deal, it changes everything, it needs more than just words to be come clearer...

Not really, RJ posted his system. It is up to the user to try out that system. RJ does not owe anyone any proof of any kind. If you post a system, you will not owe any proof either. Each student has to choose his own curriculum. I am not trying to be adversarial, so if I came off like that, I do apologize. I am only saying that a TE means nothing. Find a system and try it out. I try out systems all the time, even though I have a core system that I use. I do not ask for proof of success. It is up to me to follow the rules or not.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #29
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:33am Nov 19, 2013 2:33am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} So then what you are really wanting is to see 'live' trades isn't it? Then you should have asked that very question instead of beating around the bush as you have done so far! 'Live' trades offer more than any TE can offer, which is just full of hindsight trades that the TE owner would have to review and document in order to justify to the thread his motives for the trade. No one is going to scroll back through their TE and re-analyze the any particular trade, then document it just to answer the questions as to what were the motives for...
ya live trades but for real.. not when i like or time to time.. manage a account like a business and matches to what you teaching. this is far from what you do for example as to live trade when you feel like it from time to time..
its two different thing.
  • #30
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:41am Nov 19, 2013 2:41am
Quoting Provolone
{quote} ya live trades but for real.. not when i like or time to time.. manage a account like a business and matches to what you teaching. this is far from what you do for example as to live trade when you feel like it from time to time.. its two different thing.
Well, contrary to what you have said a couple of times now, you do not actually want a discussion on TE's at all. You have placed yourself firmly in the 'pro TE camp' and you are going to argue that point no matter what.

I suggest you title your next thread more appropriately.

Bye.....
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #31
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:42am Nov 19, 2013 2:42am
Quoting numbnuts
There are many reasons both for and against, but here are two very big factors that often get overlooked in these debates: 1. A successful trader, with significant amounts of money in his trading account is NEVER going to give his account details away for no good reason. Not even to Trade Explorer. Why would he take the risk? Would you give me your bank account number for no reason? So by looking at TE's, right away you are filtering out the top traders and seeking out the best of the rest. 2. Judging other traders or their methods by results will...
So what your saying is a top trader can not open a 10k account (which should be chump change to him) and have his trades from his giant account copied to this little account with according risk and teach it to the avg joe? ..thats far from asking of his bank acc #..

but if you really follow what i am saying is not talking about top traders coming here.. thats thinking naive.. so they are out of the picture as we most know. we are talking about the wannabee, they need to be more clear so what needs to be revealed it will be revealed
  • #32
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:46am Nov 19, 2013 2:46am
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting Provolone
... but you would see mostly and all the time that when a OP gains some ground on a thread then people would want to see action on it
Yes that's right ... but try to find who are the requesters. Newbies who don't take the time to read the whole thread and test themself the system/method shared by the thread starter.

Unless something is sold/teached (for money), no proof of anything has to be given.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #33
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:46am Nov 19, 2013 2:46am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Well, contrary to what you have said a couple of times now, you do not actually want a discussion on TE's at all. You have placed yourself firmly in the 'pro TE camp' and you are going to argue that point no matter what. I suggest you title your next thread more appropriately. Bye.....

read between the lines my friend, between the lines.. I don't want to make it personal but I am sure you can not display one of those live trades that you claim about on a consistent manner for real for one consistent month without creating a controversy for yourself.. you know i am right.. so best decision is to leave.
  • #34
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:48am Nov 19, 2013 2:48am
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} Yes that's right ... but try to find who are the requesters. Newbies who don't take the time to read the whole thread and test themself the system/method shared by the thread starter. Unless something is sold/teached (for money), no proof of anything has to be given.
ya so if thats the mentality why even open a thread and waste time on such requester in the first place.. what your saying makes no sense.
  • #35
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:49am Nov 19, 2013 2:49am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I am only saying that a TE means nothing.
your experience in the forex market means nothing but not the trade explorer. you should not be allowed to speak. you are waisting the time of everybody on this forum with that kind of advice. wild goose chases are not a good idea. people should know the truth . i'm not saying that you should not dream and you should not reasearch or train but ignoring the truth that 99 percent of the threads are not profitable long term will take years of bullshit taking from stupid people like you.
  • #36
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:50am Nov 19, 2013 2:50am
Quoting Provolone
{quote} read between the lines my friend, between the lines.. I don't want to make it personal but I am sure you can not display one of those live trades that you claim about on a consistent manner for real for one consistent month without creating a controversy for yourself.. you know i am right.. so best decision is to leave.
What?

Explain the above please.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #37
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:54am Nov 19, 2013 2:54am
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting Provolone
{quote} ya so if thats the mentality why even open a thread and waste time on such requester in the first place.. what your saying makes no sense.
The purpose of FF is to share/help traders. So opening a thread to do so makes a lot of sense to me.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #38
  • Nov 19, 2013 2:57am Nov 19, 2013 2:57am
folks it is not hard and nor does any harm for security purposes to a genuine OP to open a small $500 full visual TE account to trade it like he teaches it for a consistent 6mo or a year.. I am sure it will sever the genuine purpose much clear, faster with no doubts for the real prospects to benefit from.
whats wrong with that?.. I tell you.. nothing, point blank.
  • #39
  • Nov 19, 2013 3:01am Nov 19, 2013 3:01am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} What? Explain the above please.

Its bold and clear and did not stutter, promise lol.
  • #40
  • Nov 19, 2013 3:01am Nov 19, 2013 3:01am
Quoting Provolone
folks it is not hard and nor does any harm for security purposes to a genuine OP to open a small $500 full visual TE account to trade it like he teaches it for a consistent 6mo or a year.. I am sure it will sever the genuine purpose much clear, faster with no doubts for the real prospects to benefit from. whats wrong with that?.. I tell you.. nothing, point blank.

And there it is for all to see.

You are not interested in a discussion at all. As I said above, you have decided that TE is the best thing since sliced bread and you have a closed mind to any explanations offered. You only want to argue your point, not discuss.

I have no more time to waste here,.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
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