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Why Simple is better in trading and Complex is not

  • #21
  • Nov 18, 2013 7:01am Nov 18, 2013 7:01am
Quoting TEB63
{quote} so having no rules is your edge?
For me, having strict rules and following them is more important than the particular strategy.
Example
1. 1. Find a trend- 2. Find a good stop3. Find a target -4. make sure you have a good RRR 5. Only trade in tradable times.6. Find a trigger7. Put on your trade and take your chances. 8. Set and forget


Example 2.
One of my edges is EMA200 (15m 1h 4h day). I like to dance with it.


and so on. IMHO the only difference between the two above is the rules you apply and follow when executing. I think you'd agree that sometimes it's easier to set and forget than sometimes "set but later on go in for a peak, and since you're getting close to the sl you placed move it a few pips cause the market has got to turn around, especially when you're new and don't know, "no it doesn't"
Nobody ever went broke closing a trade in profit
  • #22
  • Nov 18, 2013 7:23am Nov 18, 2013 7:23am
Quoting gp00053
{quote} For me, having strict rules and following them is more important than the particular strategy. Example 1. 1. Find a trend- 2. Find a good stop3. Find a target -4. make sure you have a good RRR 5. Only trade in tradable times.6. Find a trigger7. Put on your trade and take your chances. 8. Set and forget Example 2. One of my edges is EMA200 (15m 1h 4h day). I like to dance with it. and so on. IMHO the only difference between the two above is the rules you apply and follow when executing. I think you'd agree that sometimes it's easier to set...

I really do not understand what you are saying
But the one rule I would never change !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
is never move a SL to take on bigger risk once a trade is in place.
Only move Stop loss to lessen risk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • #23
  • Nov 18, 2013 7:35am Nov 18, 2013 7:35am
Quoting Forexgogo
{quote} I've read your EMA200 thread. I do something like that. The other thing, I use stochastics (5.3.3). I just watch when it turns (how beautifully it makes a u-turn is important) and don't care how high/low it is. I think you know what I mean...

not a bad system- trend and retracement with good RRR should work well
  • #24
  • Nov 18, 2013 7:50am Nov 18, 2013 7:50am
Quoting TEB63
{quote} I really do not understand what you are saying But the one rule I would never change !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is never move a SL to take on bigger risk once a trade is in place. Only move Stop loss to lessen risk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not saying you would do it or did it, I'm saying the some traders make a rule for example "set and forget" but then if the market doesn't immediately go their way, they move their sl. If you look at forexgogo, posts he has more than one way of trading. I assume he has different rules for whatever method he uses to trade. For me in my opinion, rules to why you take or don't take a trade are more important than the actual indicators or no indicators, signals or whatever method a trader chooses to trade by.

Bu the way I forgot to mention what a great idea you had starting this thread
Nobody ever went broke closing a trade in profit
  • #25
  • Nov 18, 2013 7:55am Nov 18, 2013 7:55am
The simplest thing I can think of that might be of use: ZOOM OUT. I read the Interactive threads for amusement (especially the EURUSD thread), and it is absolutely like watching a clueless cat chase a laser pointer. It is much easier to trade a 15 minute chart with 2 months of data showing than it is to trade a 5 minute chart with 2 hours of data. Utter simplicity. DOY.
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #26
  • Nov 18, 2013 8:21am Nov 18, 2013 8:21am
Quoting gp00053
{quote} I'm not saying you would do it or did it, I'm saying the some traders make a rule for example "set and forget" but then if the market doesn't immediately go their way, they move their sl. If you look at forexgogo, posts he has more than one way of trading. I assume he has different rules for whatever method he uses to trade. For me in my opinion, rules to why you take or don't take a trade are more important than the actual indicators or no indicators, signals or whatever method a trader chooses to trade by. Bu the way I forgot to mention...

Ok thank
rules over tools ... I agree with you 110%
  • #27
  • Nov 18, 2013 8:26am Nov 18, 2013 8:26am
Quoting LizardGizzard
The simplest thing I can think of that might be of use: ZOOM OUT. I read the Interactive threads for amusement (especially the EURUSD thread), and it is absolutely like watching a clueless cat chase a laser pointer. It is much easier to trade a 15 minute chart with 2 months of data showing than it is to trade a 5 minute chart with 2 hours of data. Utter simplicity. DOY.


I do be believe you are on to something!!

are you saying trading with Multi Time Frame (MTF) charts trading or just trading on one Larger Time (LT) charts
  • #28
  • Nov 18, 2013 8:37am Nov 18, 2013 8:37am
Quoting TEB63
{quote} I do be believe you are on to something!! are you saying trading with Multi Time Frame (MTF) charts trading or just trading on one Larger Time (LT) charts
I'm referring to just one time frame, but backed away for a longer perspective. Personally, I don't think there is any merit whatsoever to trading multiple time frames. But that's just me. Regardless, zooming out to get a fuller picture of the recent market makes things a whole lot simpler and easier to comprehend than zooming in to chase the small random fluctuations that in turn add up to make up the larger market structure.
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #29
  • Nov 18, 2013 8:42am Nov 18, 2013 8:42am
Quoting LizardGizzard
{quote} I'm referring to just one time frame, but backed away for a longer perspective. Personally, I don't think there is any merit whatsoever to trading multiple time frames. But that's just me. Regardless, zooming out to get a fuller picture of the recent market makes things a whole lot simpler and easier to comprehend than zooming in to chase the small random fluctuations that in turn add up to make up the larger market structure.
"....I don't think there is any merit whatsoever to trading multiple time frames...."
really I love it !!
but I think most people do not really understand what they are do or the reason for MTF
I think most people just do it for trend which I believe works
others use S/R or S/D which I love!
But the real strength is to cut down risk

how do you trade simple
  • #30
  • Nov 18, 2013 9:03am Nov 18, 2013 9:03am
Quoting LizardGizzard
The simplest thing I can think of that might be of use: ZOOM OUT. I read the Interactive threads for amusement (especially the EURUSD thread), and it is absolutely like watching a clueless cat chase a laser pointer. It is much easier to trade a 15 minute chart with 2 months of data showing than it is to trade a 5 minute chart with 2 hours of data. Utter simplicity. DOY.
Do you mean this rather than 5 min below is simper?
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 15m zoom.png Size: 21 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 5 min.png Size: 5 KB
Nobody ever went broke closing a trade in profit
  • #31
  • Nov 18, 2013 9:05am Nov 18, 2013 9:05am
Quoting gp00053
{quote} Do you mean this rather than 5 min below is simper? {image} {image}
Without question. A million times simpler.
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #32
  • Nov 18, 2013 9:09am Nov 18, 2013 9:09am
Quoting LizardGizzard
{quote} Without question. A million times simpler.
i second
  • #33
  • Nov 18, 2013 9:17am Nov 18, 2013 9:17am
Quoting gp00053
{quote} Do you mean this rather than 5 min below is simper? {image} {image}

interesting Heikin-Ashi gives hi and low and trend but not strength/weakness

but everyone is talking about 5 min candle here

but lizzard/gizzard was talking about higher time frame
  • #34
  • Nov 18, 2013 9:22am Nov 18, 2013 9:22am
Right. I was just referring to candle charts on a single time frame...but looking at thousands of bars on a single chart instead of just a short period like many folks do.
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #35
  • Nov 18, 2013 9:27am Nov 18, 2013 9:27am
Quoting TEB63
{quote} interesting Heikin-Ashi gives hi and low and trend but not strength/weakness but everyone is talking about 5 min candle here but lizzard/gizzard was talking about higher time frame
You're right lizzard mentioned 15 with 2 months data. HA is the candles I use, but here's the 5min. Gets back to more than 1 way to skin a cat.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5minzoom.png Size: 14 KB
Nobody ever went broke closing a trade in profit
  • #36
  • Nov 18, 2013 9:37am Nov 18, 2013 9:37am
I forgot this would be my definition of simple. . .but I also see where they're coming from
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: myversionofsimple.png Size: 21 KB
Nobody ever went broke closing a trade in profit
  • #37
  • Nov 18, 2013 11:33am Nov 18, 2013 11:33am
Quoting gp00053
I forgot this would be my definition of simple. . .but I also see where they're coming from {image}

each person finds a system to trade

but if you are showing your system it looks like you have at least 4 lagging tools (maybe as many as 7)
I personally would not see that as a simple system.

But it is very colourful
now why do you see it as a simple system
  • #38
  • Nov 18, 2013 12:12pm Nov 18, 2013 12:12pm
Quoting TEB63
{quote} each person finds a system to trade but if you are showing your system it looks like you have at least 4 lagging tools (maybe as many as 7) I personally would not see that as a simple system. But it is very colourful now why do you see it as a simple system
Firstly I this is not my system. This is the one I learned on when I first started. I changed a couple of things since then but it's basically the same one. Secondly, lagging indicators is all we have to work with, unless you know something different.

I think it's simple because it quickly addresses: Trend, Momentum, Cycle and gives an entry. TP and SL are made using support and resistance. MA'S Cross, colors of HA and SHA change to address entry, exit, and short term up or down cycle, ASI addresses Momentum, White arrows addresses Trend Support and Resistance address Sl and TP. Add some other rules that deal with the when and where and there you go. Simple in my opinion maybe not in yours in my opinion the great part about this thread is hopefully we'll see more traders definitions and illustrations of simple or complex.
Nobody ever went broke closing a trade in profit
  • #39
  • Nov 18, 2013 12:19pm Nov 18, 2013 12:19pm
Quoting gp00053
{quote} Firstly I this is not my system. This is the one I learned on when I first started. I changed a couple of things since then but it's basically the same one. Secondly, lagging indicators is all we have to work with, unless you know something different. I think it's simple because it quickly addresses: Trend, Momentum, Cycle and gives an entry. TP and SL are made using support and resistance. MA'S Cross, colors of HA and SHA change to address entry, exit, and short term up or down cycle, ASI addresses Momentum, White arrows addresses Trend...

That is fine and why its interesting to see what people do !!
I also would like to see what others do

I personally use no tools other then candles, trend lines, S/D and S/R. and I normally do 2 or 3 TF
  • #40
  • Nov 18, 2013 12:36pm Nov 18, 2013 12:36pm
Indeed always interesting to see other's setups. There is usually at least a little bit of validity to anything. After many iterations, I've come to trade about as naked as possible, like this....with the arrows representing my signals.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screen Shot 2013-11-18 at 3.35.27 PM.PNG Size: 118 KB
There's always money in the banana stand.
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