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vsa with Malcolm

  • #24,881
  • Nov 16, 2013 12:18am Nov 16, 2013 12:18am
Quoting pres78
{quote} A true test is a downbar, an upbar test is called a hidden test. Regardless of name or down vs. upbar was does the make up of a test represent? In the world of VSA a test bar usually will open on it's high, head down and the close in the upper 50% of the range. To be a true basic test we treat it by the same rules as a NS in that we prefer to see volume lower than the previous 2 bars. So this shows that the market headed down to test for selling interest and when we see the close well up in the range it is said to mean that no sellers were...
gone through my charts realized that what you said about all test not being a low test is true.....so how do you...know that a high volume test is a good one.........
  • #24,882
  • Nov 16, 2013 1:07am Nov 16, 2013 1:07am
Quoting mima
{quote} Do you mean of the high or off the high? Those who's English is first language not necessary knows English language grammar and in terms of that they are not qualified to answer your highly crucial questions related to VSA analysis....How you are going to deal with that issue?.... at the high or on the high? What was your grade in English?

Mima, I don't know if the correct way to say that is at or on the high, but my question is: what should be understood in the quote from the VSA setup manual that I have simply copied : "bar closing off the high"

Thanks
Srx
  • #24,883
  • Nov 16, 2013 2:10am Nov 16, 2013 2:10am
Quoting mima
{quote} I do not know if English is your first language or not but you are filtering out who may or may not answer to you and in general communicate with you ....As far as I know Tom Williams was born in England and grown up there and based on that I assume that English is his first language so he wrote correctly...I also assume that English is your first language too...If so then you should not have problem of understanding: "bar closing off the high". Your question is pure English language issue...so resolve it by learning English.What was your...

Mima if my first language was English I wouldn't waste my time asking this question, I would know English in depth as I do with my own first language. But I wonder why you're wasting your time, mine and this thread simply for argument seek.
I do live in a mainly English speaking region of the World : British Columbia, but I thought that asking this question on this thread where most people are willing to help would be easier since it's fairly technical and might not be in the general public knowledge.
I guess somebody else on this thread will be able to answer this genuine and simple question.
Thanks
Srx
  • #24,884
  • Nov 16, 2013 6:44am Nov 16, 2013 6:44am
off the high = away from the high
  • #24,885
  • Nov 16, 2013 11:34am Nov 16, 2013 11:34am
Quoting Curtis_S
off the high = away from the high

Thanks for your help as always.
Srx
  • #24,886
  • Nov 17, 2013 6:09pm Nov 17, 2013 6:09pm
Quoting pres78
{quote} A true test is a downbar, an upbar test is called a hidden test.
Thanks Jason,

Well thought out and informative post that is bookmark worthy!
  • #24,887
  • Nov 17, 2013 6:25pm Nov 17, 2013 6:25pm
Quoting Curtis_S
I am waiting for a downward move on GU: {image}
I have been thinking about this chart this weekend, a good example for trigger numbers.

Using the close of the potential selling bar as a trigger number price was never able to dip below it, there was a low volume up thrust I marked in blue that could easily be mistaken for a short entry which as price comes down the market prints a hidden test right at the trigger number.

Something I will explore further this week, using the close as a trigger number from the SOW and looking for entries below it.
Anyone care to correct me.. Does Gavin only use them on closes or highs/lows as well? I tend to use them on all three.
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  • #24,888
  • Nov 17, 2013 6:35pm Nov 17, 2013 6:35pm
Quoting carbonado
{quote} gone through my charts realized that what you said about all test not being a low test is true.....so how do you...know that a high volume test is a good one.........
Focus less on the tests and more on the background, background being your SOS/SOW. NS/ND/Tests are only entry bars, they don't make a market weak or strong they only give you a place to put an order.

But to answer your question you will know that a high volume test is valid when you have strength in the background.
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  • #24,889
  • Nov 17, 2013 6:41pm Nov 17, 2013 6:41pm
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} I have been thinking about this chart this weekend, a good example for trigger numbers. Using the close of the potential selling bar as a trigger number price was never able to dip below it, there was a low volume up thrust I marked in blue that could easily be mistaken for a short entry which as price comes down the market prints a hidden test right at the trigger number. Something I will explore further this week, using the close as a trigger number from the SOW and looking for entries below it. Anyone care to correct me.. Does Gavin only...
For narrow UHV bars I use H, L and maybe close depending on where it is in relation.

For WRB's that are UHV I use H, 50% and L (what I call VZA). Again perhaps close depending on where it is in relation.

No idea on what Gavin uses.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #24,890
  • Nov 18, 2013 3:37am Nov 18, 2013 3:37am
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} I have been thinking about this chart this weekend, a good example for trigger numbers. Using the close of the potential selling bar as a trigger number price was never able to dip below it, there was a low volume up thrust I marked in blue that could easily be mistaken for a short entry which as price comes down the market prints a hidden test right at the trigger number. Something I will explore further this week, using the close as a trigger number from the SOW and looking for entries below it. Anyone care to correct me.. Does Gavin only...
Dr. Geppynius had written in one of his posts, the volume at ND and NS bars should be compared not only with volume on Sos and Sow bars, but also with other bars before sos and sow signs happened. When we take this into consideration, then we can see that the Lv upthrust on the chart does not have so low volume in comparision to previous bars from potential selling bar.

could this perspective had helpt us to not taking that short entry you mentioned ?
  • #24,891
  • Nov 18, 2013 3:58am Nov 18, 2013 3:58am
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} I have been thinking about this chart this weekend
That short trade taught me to close positions right before the next news event.
  • #24,892
  • Nov 18, 2013 4:27am Nov 18, 2013 4:27am
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} Focus less on the tests and more on the background, background being your SOS/SOW. NS/ND/Tests are only entry bars, they don't make a market weak or strong they only give you a place to put an order. But to answer your question you will know that a high volume test is valid when you have strength in the background. {image}
Thanks as always......could you explain what a hidden test is........thanks in advance........
  • #24,893
  • Edited 5:19am Nov 18, 2013 5:07am | Edited 5:19am
Quoting Trappist
{quote} Dr. Geppynius had written in one of his posts, the volume at ND and NS bars should be compared not only with volume on Sos and Sow bars, but also with other bars before sos and sow signs happened. When we take this into consideration, then we can see that the Lv upthrust on the chart does not have so low volume in comparision to previous bars from potential selling bar. could this perspective had helpt us to not taking that short entry you mentioned ?
Not really.. The point is we are looking to see how price reacts to the SOS or SOW. The SOS/SOW gives us a good idea if a pair is being bought or sold. The NS/ND/Test is the reaction to the SOS/SOW and confirming whether it was bought or sold.

So in short I am more concerned how the NS/ND/Test reacts to the SOS/SOW rather than the previous bars before the SOS/SOW.
  • #24,894
  • Edited 5:22am Nov 18, 2013 5:12am | Edited 5:22am
Quoting carbonado
{quote} Thanks as always......could you explain what a hidden test is........thanks in advance........
A test is a down bar, a hidden test is an up bar. Both are doing the same thing, check to see if sellers have been removed.

You have millions of dollars being traded by multiple people/institutions so you won't always see a perfect NS/ND/Test.
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  • #24,895
  • Nov 18, 2013 11:52am Nov 18, 2013 11:52am
Quoting carbonado
{quote} what time frame do you trade..........
Well carbonado that depends on several factors.

The simple answer is I trade all TF's and have set-ups and entries in my trade plan that are for all TF's.

The more complex answer is;

  1. How much time do I have for the charts that day or at that point in time?
  2. What are the markets doing this day / this week (trending, ranging etc...)
  3. What day of the week is it? For example on Sunday night last weeks bar is more important to me for my weekly trade plan than it is on Thursday after almost a week of trading and a new weekly bar is busy forming.
  4. Where are we at in the bigger picture (for example what does last weeks or months bar tell me, how close are we to key daily, weekly or monthly supply and demand zones, where is the UHV on all TF's etc...)
  5. What do the entries on various TF's give me for R:R. Sometime we may see set-ups forming on a pair on numerous TF's giving varying entries, SL's and traget. Which one do I want to trade. Which one gives me the lowest risk but greatest possible return.

Somedays when I have some time on my hands I will even drop down to scalp the M1 but normally now a days with how busy work is I don't spend much time on eanything less than H1.

Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #24,896
  • Nov 18, 2013 9:57pm Nov 18, 2013 9:57pm
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} Something I will explore further this week, using the close as a trigger number from the SOW and looking for entries below it. }
Seems like a viable confirmation, here is an example from Asia, a hidden test just above the close from the SOS.
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  • #24,897
  • Nov 19, 2013 8:31am Nov 19, 2013 8:31am
Quoting pres78
{quote} Well carbonado that depends on several factors. The simple answer is I trade all TF's and have set-ups and entries in my trade plan that are for all TF's. The more complex answer is; How much time do I have for the charts that day or at that point in time? What are the markets doing this day / this week (trending, ranging etc...) What day of the week is it? For example on Sunday night last weeks bar is more important to me for my weekly trade plan than it is on Thursday after almost a week of trading and a new weekly bar is busy forming....

thanks...ialso do not like to go lower than the 1hr,once a while i drop to the 30mins
  • #24,898
  • Nov 19, 2013 8:32am Nov 19, 2013 8:32am
Quoting SimpleDev
{quote} A test is a down bar, a hidden test is an up bar. Both are doing the same thing, check to see if sellers have been removed. You have millions of dollars being traded by multiple people/institutions so you won't always see a perfect NS/ND/Test. {image}

thanks.............
  • #24,899
  • Nov 20, 2013 1:22pm Nov 20, 2013 1:22pm
Hello all!

Just have read the Master the Markets by Ton Williams, and have a question to those who participate there for a long time. Have you made extractions from this book, which are supported by Images from real Futures market. I mean manually collected examples from real charts? It will be good to make such sum-up with cases.
  • #24,900
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:32pm Nov 20, 2013 8:32pm
Quoting napalc
Hello all! Just have read the Master the Markets by Ton Williams, and have a question to those who participate there for a long time. Have you made extractions from this book, which are supported by Images from real Futures market. I mean manually collected examples from real charts? It will be good to make such sum-up with cases.
There are multiple examples in this thread.
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