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close to quitting...

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 3, 2006 12:08am Jul 3, 2006 12:08am
I am fairly new to Forex, and trading in general but I’ve spent the last six months studying as much as I could, trading a demo account, reading as many trading books and forums as I could, and basically being totally committed to finding out as much as I can. In short, I’ve been eating, breathing and sleeping forex. I am driven to succeed at this, and it has gripped me like nothing else. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m in no hurry to trade my money, not until I start to make some profits, but I’m can’t understand why it is so damn hard!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

<o></o>

At the start of the month, when I begin a new demo, I have about a week of successful trades, but then it all goes awry, and by the month’s end, I’m usually down at least $4000, on a $10,000 demo account. I don’t make crazy trades, I’m disciplined and aware of risk, but I just can’t turn it around!<o></o>

<o></o>

I don’t expect to be great at trading in the short time that I’ve been studying, but I didn’t expect to be nearly as bad as I am either. It seems that as soon as I put a trade on with SECONDS it’s going in the opposite direction. I watch it go from –3 or –5, to –12, -15… and on, until it gets stopped out. I know psychology has a big part in trading, and I’ve been reading as much as I can on the subject… but this seems beyond psychology!!! It’s just impossible!!! I think I’d probably have more success if I just put random trades on! <o></o>

<o></o>

Am I just not cut out for trading? Should I just stop wasting my time? Should I give up? Has anyone else had this experience but are now successful? It is so frustrating!
  • #2
  • Jul 3, 2006 12:23am Jul 3, 2006 12:23am
Quote
Am I just not cut out for trading? Should I just stop wasting my time? Should I give up? Has anyone else had this experience but are now successful? It is so frustrating!

In short ... Yes, No, No, Yes, I know!

Your post is more common than you can imagine, and the stage you are at now I think just about every successful trader has gone through. While I do not call myself a successful trader just yet (when I am on a Yaught of the caribean I will call myself that), I am a profitable trader, but of course was not always one. Unfortunately trading, especially Forex is billed by the brokerage houses and course sellers as your easy path to riches, of course they say this for their own benefit but it is far from the truth as you are discovering.

There are so many indicators, methods, theories and techniques out there that it can just about do your head in after a while. My advice would be at this point in time to take a break before you head explodes! I "hit the wall" as it seems you have also, and found the best thing I did was get outside in the sunshine for a week or two, enjoy the outdoors and refresh the body. It is something so often forgotten, a healthy body, a healthy mind. We all need balance.

I of course have no idea on your trading method, timeframe of technique, but I would guess you may be trading slightly shorter timeframes?, certainly it appears you are watching every tick of the chart once a trade is on, the best thing I did was to lengthen the timeframes I traded on and placed a trade and walked away (with appropriate stops and take profits in place of course!). I checked back every now and then of course, as curiousity got the better of me, but it sure made trading more enjoyable and my wife happier

To me it sounds like you have the right attitude, which is the hardest part of it all. If it is all getting too overwhelming, throw all the indicators etc. out the window and look into the components of what makes up the market, then worry about what is going to help you in identifying those components.

All in all, if you can master discipline and money management, you will be ok in the long run. Best of luck!
You can quit and they won't care, but you will always know.
  • #3
  • Jul 3, 2006 12:30am Jul 3, 2006 12:30am
I know exactly how you feel, there was a long period of losing trades for me too....no mater what I did BAM stops hit account dwindling away. There was a point I was considering selling signals, all you had to do was enter oppisite me and you would have made a killing

Some times you can get too focused, sometimes you need to step away and take a break, take a deeeeep breath, and just let it go.
There is so much info out there and soooo much of it is just crap.

Well I don't know if this helps but I guess what I'm trying to say is we've all been there, so don't give up, just take a little break.

also consider this ,,,, the best systems are simple systems, don't clutter up your charts with a bunch of indicators, you only need a couple.
take a look at this one and see if you can make it your own, if you need help you can PM me.
http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=6191
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • #4
  • Jul 3, 2006 12:33am Jul 3, 2006 12:33am
Oh and in regards to indicators ... if you do use them, make sure you know WHY you are using them. Most indicators are rubbish anyway, even a broken clock is right twice a day, so be sure to understand what the indicator is calculating and why you have it on your chart.
You can quit and they won't care, but you will always know.
  • #5
  • Jul 3, 2006 12:40am Jul 3, 2006 12:40am
it sucks to feel like the market is out to get YOU.
sounds like break-time.

Good luck.
  • #6
  • Jul 3, 2006 12:40am Jul 3, 2006 12:40am
I agree with Akuma99 that longer time frames maybe an idea worth checking out. They seem to working for me. I'm probably going to sign up for James16
group as well. I have read all Vegas stuff and am currently demoing Akuma99
method and also HAT, with good results.

While I'm learning though it seems I just have to place trades. It's like I need feedback from the market. This type of approach is unpredictable. I am constantly aware that I need to develop or should I say(adopt) a trading system - for me the system is not so much about the system but about systematising my whole approach to circumvent the fluctuations in human emotion and reaction. The end product is self confidence in my systematic approach and "relative" inner peace with forward progress in this business.

I must believe in the possibility of success then create a structure that will attain it. I have had to communicate my plans to my partner. If I had someone negative in my environment - I am aware that this could affect the positive outcome. Thankfully she is supportive.

At least that's my current thinking. Something to reflect on anyway.
  • #7
  • Jul 3, 2006 12:56am Jul 3, 2006 12:56am
Hi kimmie,
Your [first] post caught my attention because I get the feeling you are closer to the finish line [if such a thing exists] than you imagine.
btw...Welcome to the factory

First things first;

You're doin it right by using a demo acct.

Secondly;
It appears you are starting out by trying to win the 100 yard dash. Wrong ! For now, leave that to the elitists.
Start training immediately for the marathon.
Move to higher timeframes of your favourite pair to give yourself an idea of the intermediate/long term potential of that market. Then target that specific pair. You will still have losing trades but they should be [hopefully] minimalized by the trend.

At the outset, don't be seduced by the posts that state they are trading a dozen pairs and winning, because if you try that, you will lose.

Personally I believe there is a cycle wherein a Trader Starts with one pair, Moves on to Multiple Pairs then comes back to one pair yet again because they have some sort of affinity to that pair. Once this is achieved, then, and only then, should they consider adding additional pairs to their portfoilio.

You mentioned that you have paitence and dilligence, these are two of the biggest factors that most traders have to overcome. But is your Patience restricted to The Trade? Because it sounds like you have a lack of patience for yourself. [by now I should be at this point and I'm not!] Is your dillegence focused on The Trade or merely on Continuing to Trade?

A 15 - 25 pip move on ANY pair is really nothing in the big picture. Sure you will read and hear about systems and strategies that Scalp 10 - 15 pips per trade but these trades are Certainly not for the feint of heart because if truth be told, most of them probably had a 20 pip drawdown before they pulled out with their 15 pip profit.

Relax. Demo till it's gone. get it out of your gut and then open a new Demo acct with the quest to yourself that "This time it will be different." and then realize that if you succeed in accomplishing this while only using demo funds, you will have done better than half the successfull traders here.

I can blend the best recipe on the planet for chocolate chip cookies but if I don't leave them in the oven to "Bake" for 20 minutes {or however long CC cookies take} I am left with nothing but a mess to clean up.
  • #8
  • Jul 3, 2006 1:01am Jul 3, 2006 1:01am
"Try again. Fail again. Fail better." (Beckett)

Akuma keeps stealing my words.. but definitely, if you use indicators, know why you use them!!

Forget the lotions and potions online, I've got pretty much every single one, and I can tell you, they all suck.

Don't give up, we've all been where you were before!

The average millionaire has been bankrupt over 3 times!! The average forex trader has gone to goose egg in his account probably as many times also!

Fight Fight Fight!
google:
  • #9
  • Jul 3, 2006 1:31am Jul 3, 2006 1:31am
Quoting minute
I agree with Akuma99 that longer time frames maybe an idea worth checking out. They seem to working for me. I'm probably going to sign up for James16
group as well. I have read all Vegas stuff and am currently demoing Akuma99
method and also HAT, with good results.

While I'm learning though it seems I just have to place trades. It's like I need feedback from the market. This type of approach is unpredictable. I am constantly aware that I need to develop or should I say(adopt) a trading system - for me the system is not so much about the system but about systematising my whole approach to circumvent the fluctuations in human emotion and reaction. The end product is self confidence in my systematic approach and "relative" inner peace with forward progress in this business.

I must believe in the possibility of success then create a structure that will attain it. I have had to communicate my plans to my partner. If I had someone negative in my environment - I am aware that this could affect the positive outcome. Thankfully she is supportive.

At least that's my current thinking. Something to reflect on anyway.
I gained the most when I developed my own system. and maybe not so much in profitability but in self confidence when you can surely stay aside and don't trade while you don't have a signal. the problem I faced at the beginning was that I wanted to be in any major move and I wandet it all and I wanted it fast.. in the end, got the opposite. now I can enter with confidence and calculated risk/reward.. a loss still is a loss but I know that even consecutive losses are not that big deal for my system as one win can make up for 11 losses and maximum losses in a row my system had was 6.
  • #10
  • Jul 3, 2006 2:10am Jul 3, 2006 2:10am
Nice one!
  • #11
  • Jul 3, 2006 2:21am Jul 3, 2006 2:21am
Quoting kimmie
I am fairly new to Forex, and trading in general but I’ve spent the last six months studying as much as I could, trading a demo account, reading as many trading books and forums as I could, and basically being totally committed to finding out as much as I can. In short, I’ve been eating, breathing and sleeping forex. I am driven to succeed at this, and it has gripped me like nothing else. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m in no hurry to trade my money, not until I start to make some profits, but I’m can’t understand why it is so damn hard!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

<o></o>

At the start of the month, when I begin a new demo, I have about a week of successful trades, but then it all goes awry, and by the month’s end, I’m usually down at least $4000, on a $10,000 demo account. I don’t make crazy trades, I’m disciplined and aware of risk, but I just can’t turn it around!<o></o>

<o></o>

I don’t expect to be great at trading in the short time that I’ve been studying, but I didn’t expect to be nearly as bad as I am either. It seems that as soon as I put a trade on with SECONDS it’s going in the opposite direction. I watch it go from –3 or –5, to –12, -15… and on, until it gets stopped out. I know psychology has a big part in trading, and I’ve been reading as much as I can on the subject… but this seems beyond psychology!!! It’s just impossible!!! I think I’d probably have more success if I just put random trades on! <o></o>

<o></o>

Am I just not cut out for trading? Should I just stop wasting my time? Should I give up? Has anyone else had this experience but are now successful? It is so frustrating!

Try trading ranging pairs like GBPCHF 2.2580buy-2.2860sell. Look at pairs weekly chart you'll understand.<o></o>
  • #12
  • Jul 3, 2006 4:31am Jul 3, 2006 4:31am
in the begining i wish i would have just got a demo account and traded it. It helps to learn the market before you start setting up a system. The mantra goes, plan the trade and trade the plan,and it is definately true, but first you need know how the market moves in the first place to get a grasp on indicators (heck i still cant tell how 99% of them work, and im pretty sure 98% of them dont). Try different pairs, get to know their personality.

Get out there and trade your demo account on what you think is right. Soon they market will teach you what is right (kinda mean like) and you can gain experience from it. then start adding indicators and systems. Know *why* your indicator should work, *how* doesnt help when you need to decide weather to believe it or not.

It works with psychology too. Trade crazy, feel the ups and downs, it will calm you for when you are serious. Its like the indiana jones ride at disneyland, its way fun the 1st time, but the 100th time alot of the excitement is gone.
  • #13
  • Jul 3, 2006 6:56am Jul 3, 2006 6:56am
I came across this a a few months a go and it outlines the Real Cost of Non-Institutional Foreign Exchange Trading

http://forexfacts.atspace.com/



turbo
  • #14
  • Jul 3, 2006 8:05am Jul 3, 2006 8:05am
Why not try looking at it differently? Every losing trade you're making now has two good things about it. First, it's on a demo so it's not costing you anything. Second, and more important, it is giving you a chance to learn about the mistakes you're making so you can correct them before your own capital is at risk. If you're not using a trade journal, you might find it really helpful.

I'm a noob too but so far I've kept my (second demo) account positive. I think that is mostly luck but also a little bit because I put every trade down on an index card along with all the emotions I feel about it. And I keep seeing myself make the same mistakes over and over. The big one for me is putting on a trade when there isn't a really good reason for it to go the direction I think it will go. I also have such an intense dislike of being wrong that I let the trade go too far against me. I'm glad I'm learning this now rather than when it costs me thousands.

As for the random trade, Van Tharp has a couple of paragraphs about that in his book. He tried a random trade approach and it actually worked OK. If I recall correctly, he was trying to make the point that the exit is more important than the entry.

Hang in there. You wouldn't take up skiing and expect to be on the black diamond trails in six months :-) I reread Market Wizards when I get discouraged - very inspirational.

Squid
  • #15
  • Jul 3, 2006 8:29am Jul 3, 2006 8:29am
I'll deff agree w/ Squid keep track of every trade in a journal/blog.


turbo
  • #16
  • Jul 3, 2006 9:30am Jul 3, 2006 9:30am
<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 70810" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>turbokaos</TD><TD class=alt2>I came across this a a few months a go and it outlines the Real Cost of Non-Institutional Foreign Exchange Trading

http://forexfacts.atspace.com/



turbo</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>No offense to you turbo, but whoever wrote this article is an idiot. Its just like so many other pagest that try to expose forex, without any evidence and citing numbers and figures that make it look like you could never win. Yes lots of people lose money in forex trading, big surprise. The author of this says that your small retail trade is going to effect the market - what an ego. You think anyone cares about your little 5 lot trade? You think even 50 lots is anything to a semi-major broker?

And if your broker uses UBS quote ticker then you know that they aren't manipulating anything. This guy should get some facts and write an article about how he still sucks after 18 months of trading and its his own fault because he's an idiot.
  • #17
  • Jul 3, 2006 10:18am Jul 3, 2006 10:18am
Quoting kimmie

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

At the start of the month, when I begin a new demo, I have about a week of successful trades, but then it all goes awry, and by the month’s end, I’m usually down at least $4000, on a $10,000 demo account. I don’t make crazy trades, I’m disciplined and aware of risk, but I just can’t turn it around!<o></o>

<o></o>
kimmie,

assess the amount you are trading. Losing almost half of your account is soooo common with the crazy high leverage accounts. I would challenge you to open up a Demo account that is NOT a mini, personally.... I like the Oanda corp. and they will provide a 100K demo account for you.
I assume you are a technical trader and not scalping fundamentals. If so, set the leverage at 10:1. Do not change it no matter how badly you want to.
Then, I challenge you to lose 40,000 in one month. I really do not think you can do it. I do think you can grow that account by 5 or 10 thousand though, you might lose that much too.
I challenge anyone to this, try to lose 40% of your account with reasonable leverage. The only way you can do it is by trading so many trades that you waste all your money on paying the broker's spread.

I hope you try this.
Stay in the game.... be smart and don't let brokers turn this into an expensive hobby or a gambling addiction. 200:1 leverage is designed by and for "bucket shops" , 400:1 leverage was designed by bucket shop brokers with ADD since they cannot wait a full 2 months for you to lose all your money and start refunding your account.

Let me know how much you are able to lose under these conditions. Good luck!
  • #18
  • Jul 3, 2006 10:46am Jul 3, 2006 10:46am
Quoting americanteek
<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 70810" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>turbokaos</TD><TD class=alt2>I came across this a a few months a go and it outlines the Real Cost of Non-Institutional Foreign Exchange Trading


http://forexfacts.atspace.com/



turbo
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>No offense to you turbo, but whoever wrote this article is an idiot. Its just like so many other pagest that try to expose forex, without any evidence and citing numbers and figures that make it look like you could never win. Yes lots of people lose money in forex trading, big surprise. The author of this says that your small retail trade is going to effect the market - what an ego. You think anyone cares about your little 5 lot trade? You think even 50 lots is anything to a semi-major broker?

And if your broker uses UBS quote ticker then you know that they aren't manipulating anything. This guy should get some facts and write an article about how he still sucks after 18 months of trading and its his own fault because he's an idiot.

I Think that by calling this guy an idiot you are not really getting your point across. I read the whole article of his views and everyone is allowed his opinion however wrong it is. Yes i agree that some of his points are too extreme and i do agree that evryone is responsible for his/hers failures BUT the main point that forex is difficult and you have to know who u r up against is true! Because forex market is such a huge market with so many factor that affect it (fundamentals political changes, geopolitical crisis everything that happens in the world basically) and u r exposed in this marlet with a great risk, that is why u gotta be vigilant(as our friend Mr Trichet is saying)and gotta be prepared to loose but not to risk a lot at the same time!

so my hamble opinion is that forex is worth fighting for and u gotta spend a considerable time before u decide that is not working (for exapmle that guy in the article said that he spend 18 months trading before he realise its a lost cause,,,well 18 months aint a lot my man!) u gotta spend time in the market and experience all situations that really affect the market in order to see how market reacts.I think u gotta have patience and self control combined with good risk management!
  • #19
  • Jul 3, 2006 11:03am Jul 3, 2006 11:03am
Kimmie, Don't quit on us now.....there are a lot of really good people here with a willingness to help.

Do take a break from the trading, relax a little and then start fresh, I know this thing called 4x is addictive and the only time things seem to be happening fast is when its going against you, but trading should be boring, trade the longer time frames, those 1, 5, 15, and even 30 minute time frames are for hyper scalpers and they to generaly get scalped.
Sooooo hang in there, we will be here when you are ready to get back at it.
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • #20
  • Jul 3, 2006 2:50pm Jul 3, 2006 2:50pm
lots of good input here!

ive blown a few live accounts and know the pain
i agree in the following:

building your own system
understand the movement of the markets
MM
keep reading
keep trading

biggest thing

SPEAK POSITIVE WORDS
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