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Rags to Riches in 10 or 20 Trades - Simplicity at its finest

  • #961
  • Nov 6, 2013 1:32pm Nov 6, 2013 1:32pm
So...any winners yet?
  • #962
  • Nov 6, 2013 5:09pm Nov 6, 2013 5:09pm
So i was messing around yesterday and found out something pretty interesting. I trade with Oanda, so it might be different for other retail exchanges.

With a $50 account at 50:1 leverage your maximum lot size would be about 1850 units or a .0185 lot size. Calculated with http://fxtrade.oanda.com/analysis/cu...its-calculator

Given both of those things, your maximum lot size and account size. A margin call would give you a total loss of about $25, or 50% of the account. Calculated with http://fxtrade.oanda.com/analysis/ma...all-calculator

So in order to double your account from $50 to $100 you would have to make about 270 pips @ $0.18/ pip. (given that your trading the eur/usd) The stop loss/margin call would occur about 136 pips from your entry.

So basically what i found is if your trading with 50:1 leverage and risking half your account you don't need a stop loss because you'll get margin called.

Interestingly if you use a smaller lot size and don't use a stop loss, say $0.01/pip a margin call would wipe out the whole account, which would happen at about 5000 pips from your entry, given a $50 account.

So no stop loss people as long as your trading your maximum possible lot size, that jacked up.
  • #963
  • Nov 6, 2013 5:54pm Nov 6, 2013 5:54pm
If you traded smaller time frames, lets say the 1 hr chart, i think you would have to reduce your TP and SL to reflect the daily range of the pair, with the expectancy that you would only get a fraction of that move.

Given that your trading a forced 1:2 risk to reward as stated above, it would be prudent to divide those numbers until you find a suitable profit target for the time frame you are trading.

Personally I would divide my 136:270 (R:R) by 5 or even 6 if trading the 1 hr time frame giving you a 22-27:45-54 SL to TP. But you would have to trade and win 5-6 trades in a row to double your account as opposed to the 1 trade that would make your 270 pip take profit.

The smaller the time frame you go the more ridiculous it gets. Think about a guy on the 1-5 min time frame with a 270 pip target while it may happen, the odds of it happening per setup is extremely improbable, given that he's not scaling down from a 4hr or daily to get an entry of course.

So for me anyway trading the larger time frames for this type of goal is a necessity. You have your stop/margin call, you have your target, now what time frame gives you that range per setup, by my logic it has to be a larger time frame.
  • #964
  • Nov 6, 2013 6:07pm Nov 6, 2013 6:07pm
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting Pipocrates
So for me anyway trading the larger time frames for this type of goal is a necessity.
Absolutely not. You are basing your calculation on a 50:1 leverage account.

Just increase the leverage and you can trade bigger lot and of course reduce you TP/SL targets.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #965
  • Nov 6, 2013 7:19pm Nov 6, 2013 7:19pm
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} Absolutely not. You are basing your calculation on a 50:1 leverage account. Just increase the leverage and you can trade bigger lot and of course reduce you TP/SL targets.
As far as i know US-traders are limited to 50:1, so for americans its not that easy...

Whatever. For the purpose of this thread, is there any broker who has high leverage and minimums of 50$? Its difficult to find a reputable imho.

Pepperstone, axitrader and Alpari UK have minimum of 200$, the only one who offers large leverage with low limits is dukascopy (1:200, 1:300 for europeans) with 25euro minimum.

I am not aware of a reputable broker with high leverage (min. 1:200) + low minimums (under 100$)
  • #966
  • Nov 6, 2013 8:14pm Nov 6, 2013 8:14pm
Quoting h96
{quote} As far as i know US-traders are limited to 50:1, so for americans its not that easy... Whatever. For the purpose of this thread, is there any broker who has high leverage and minimums of 50$? Its difficult to find a reputable imho. Pepperstone, axitrader and Alpari UK have minimum of 200$, the only one who offers large leverage with low limits is dukascopy (1:200, 1:300 for europeans) with 25euro minimum. I am not aware of a reputable broker with high leverage (min. 1:200) + low minimums (under 100$)

This has already been answered on this thread...and they do take US clients
  • #967
  • Nov 6, 2013 8:20pm Nov 6, 2013 8:20pm
Very intersting ideal you have there....
I have built a martingale EA than doubles or more ( your choice) on the winning side and trades both sides. Could your principle be used on this EA I built? want a copy of it?
Garry
aka Professor53

Quoting realjumper
{quote} Yep...in theory this is one of those 'do-able' missions that is worth the risk. As with all trades, imo, patience is the key and if you can wait for the perfect setup, then what you say is possible. There are many ways to look at this type of trading.....for instance, starting with $100 and trading at a lot size of 0.01 and a goal of (say) 50 pips/day, and when $200 is reached, the lots size goes to 0.02.....$300 = 0.03 etc etc. Once you get to 0.5 lots, the exponential curve steepens considerably......soon you'll be trading with 2.0 lots...still...
  • #968
  • Nov 6, 2013 8:24pm Nov 6, 2013 8:24pm
Yes, you are correct, good call. ... a USA NFA broker on a 50/1 would margin call you long before you could risk $50 on a $100 startup account. Might be a way to use in black jack and bet half of the hundred, but then you would only win $50...
Garry
aka Professor53


Quoting Pipocrates
So i was messing around yesterday and found out something pretty interesting. I trade with Oanda, so it might be different for other retail exchanges. With a $50 account at 50:1 leverage your maximum lot size would be about 1850 units or a .0185 lot size. Calculated with http://fxtrade.oanda.com/analysis/cu...its-calculator Given both of those things, your maximum lot size and account size. A margin call would give you a total loss of about $25, or 50% of the account. Calculated with http://fxtrade.oanda.com/analysis/ma...all-calculator...
  • #969
  • Nov 6, 2013 8:32pm Nov 6, 2013 8:32pm
Quoting spyderman
{quote} This has already been answered on this thread...and they do take US clients
I was talking about "serious" brokers not bucketshops. The only answer i could see is from you recommending 2 brokers who...

-are unregulated
-from belize and domenica
-offering 100% bonus which is a red flag
  • #970
  • Nov 6, 2013 8:38pm Nov 6, 2013 8:38pm
Quoting h96
{quote} I was talking about "serious" brokers not bucketshops. The only answer i could see is from you recommending 2 brokers who... -are unregulated -from belize and domenica -offering 100% bonus which is a red flag

Whatever works for you. Hard to judge someone if you haven't tried them. Better reviews on them than the "serious" brokers you mentioned.
  • #971
  • Nov 6, 2013 9:04pm Nov 6, 2013 9:04pm
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting h96
As far as i know US-traders are limited to 50:1, so for americans its not that easy...
Of course US traders have to find a broker outside US.

Dukascopy is one of the greatest broker in my opinion.

BTW, there's no need to start with a $50 account. You can use the MM discussed here with any account size. Just allow to this MM a part of the account ($50) to start the sequence.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #972
  • Edited 9:35pm Nov 6, 2013 9:15pm | Edited 9:35pm
Quoting spyderman
{quote} Whatever works for you. Hard to judge someone if you haven't tried them. Better reviews on them than the "serious" brokers you mentioned.
I don't want to let this become a broker discussion, but you can really suggest me to try every bucketshop there is.

Reviews mean nothing. I only consider opening an account with one of the larger players in the retail fx market ( see here who they are: https://pepperstone.com/forex-news/w.../10/Volume.png )
Regulated is also important point + I really wondering what the business modell of the brokers is, you are suggesting. One of them giving 100% up to 1000$, the other one even up to 5000$. I am wondering which businessowner can give away 5000$ per customer if there is no falseplay involved. Btw. there are several scam posts regarding these brokers.


@Ferrufx

The main issue is, that its almost unable for US-traders to trade larger than 50:1. All the brokers with high leverage wont accept US-clients, or they have special US accounts they limit to 50:1.

You are mentioning Dukascopy. They are not bad, but one has to be aware, that they change the leverage depending on the time of the day. just be careful. And of course no US customers.

Of course, you can start this MM with more than 50$, but an argument for this MM was that "if i am losing this 50$ it wont hurt me". If you do it with 200$ or 300$ there are a lot of good high leverage brokers in this area, but gambling 200$ is significantly more to risk than 50$.
  • #973
  • Nov 6, 2013 9:22pm Nov 6, 2013 9:22pm
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting h96
You are mentioning Dukascopy. They are not bad, but one has to be aware, that they change the leverage depending on the time of the day. just be careful.
I know Dukascopy well. I have 4 live accounts with them!

FYI, the leverage isn't changed within the trading week but for the week-end. (200 to 60 or 300 to 90).

Quoting h96
Of course, you can start this MM with more than 50$, but an argument for this MM was that "if i am losing this 50$ it wont hurt me". If you do it with 200$ or 300$ there are a lot of good high leverage brokers in this area, but gambling 200$ is significantly more to risk than 50$.
You didn't understood what I meant. You aren't risking $200 (your example), but $50 you are allowing to start with.

In other words, you decide to allow $50 of the $200 ... first step risk $25 (50% of $50). That's the deal discussed here.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #974
  • Nov 6, 2013 9:25pm Nov 6, 2013 9:25pm
Quoting h96
{quote} I don't want to let this become a broker discussion, but you can really suggest me to try every bucketshop there is. Reviews mean nothing. I only consider opening an account with one of the larger players in the retail fx market ( see here who they are: https://pepperstone.com/forex-news/w.../10/Volume.png ) Regulated is also important point + I really wondering what the business modell of the brokers is, you are suggesting. One of them giving 100% up to 1000$, the other one even up to 5000$. I am wondering...

I agree...I don't want to argue about brokers. I've used both of these for over 2 years and have never had a problem. That's all I can go on. And I've yet to read about a broker that someone didn't have a problem with. When you're in the US as I am, and want to trade higher leverage, you have to go with what you can.

As far as what Ferru was mentioning, he wasn't saying risk the 200, 300 or whatever. Just have it in your account to help with margin and only risk the 50 to start.
  • #975
  • Nov 6, 2013 9:26pm Nov 6, 2013 9:26pm
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} You didn't understood what I meant. You aren't risking $200 (your example), but $50 you are allowing to start with. In other words, you decide to allow $50 of the $200 ... first step risk $25 (50% of $50). That's the deal discussed here.
Oops, you beat me to it FerruFx.
  • #976
  • Nov 6, 2013 9:34pm Nov 6, 2013 9:34pm
Ok FerruFx, i got what you meant.

Thats of course a way to handle the issue, but i still would argue, that if you are trading with small TP/SL, you could get slipped bad, that your other 150$ could get touched, but thats just theoretical.

I am not a Dukascopy customer, its just what i heard from other people. Good to hear that they dont change it during the week, so my info was obviously wrong.
  • #977
  • Nov 6, 2013 10:25pm Nov 6, 2013 10:25pm
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting spyderman
{quote} Oops, you beat me to it FerruFx.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #978
  • Nov 6, 2013 10:43pm Nov 6, 2013 10:43pm
I'm not from US but I have account with TradersWay. I have heard reports they accept US citizens though you will have to do own research.
As the lights go by so too do the shadows move
  • #979
  • Nov 6, 2013 10:53pm Nov 6, 2013 10:53pm
Great post. i use FXPrimus - using a leverage of 1:500. i am usng price action technic on aud/usd based n 1 min/5min/15 min charts.
. i look to make 10 trades per day (each day S$50 x 10 trades x 5 working days = S$2500)
  • #980
  • Nov 6, 2013 10:55pm Nov 6, 2013 10:55pm
Quoting Matts Micro
I'm not from US but I have account with TradersWay. I have heard reports they accept US citizens though you will have to do own research.
It's interesting broker tho. 1:1000 leverage, 0 pips +comm. I'm actually not trading with it seriously atm I just have an EA runiing on it. Maybe good for this system if your up for high leverage.
As the lights go by so too do the shadows move
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