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My market philosophy

  • #61
  • Nov 5, 2013 9:25am Nov 5, 2013 9:25am
Quoting alexx90
{quote} {image} {image} {image} Hope it will help.
Lot of thanx for your nice explanation
  • #62
  • Nov 5, 2013 9:28am Nov 5, 2013 9:28am
Quoting alexx90
Hi, you are Welcome! I'm Alessandro, Italian (so sorry, sometimes I could make some grammar mistakes), 23 years old. I studied IT and since 2010 I have studied markets and I'm self-taught about them. I'm here because I have a great skill, I always need to make me questions, I want to see all clear. I started 3 years ago with forex, indicators, systems, and more. Yeah I made some profits with but in the end i was never satisfied
Sound intersting! I'll read it next morning, Thx

All the best
Erik
  • #63
  • Nov 5, 2013 9:34am Nov 5, 2013 9:34am
I like your thread, nice to see everything well documented, I manage broker's back office and this is actually what we do and all other brokers do the same. some brokers (lets say top 10) with large client base have enough capital to move market in one direction. ECN or STP all have just one motive to earn from trader's loss.
pls carry on with philosophy.
  • #64
  • Nov 5, 2013 9:40am Nov 5, 2013 9:40am
Quoting shobz99
I like your thread, nice to see everything well documented, I manage broker's back office and this is actually what we do and all other brokers do the same. some brokers (lets say top 10) with large client base have enough capital to move market in one direction. ECN or STP all have just one motive to earn from trader's loss. pls carry on with philosophy.
Can you tell which top 10. Name mentions here please
  • #65
  • Nov 5, 2013 9:51am Nov 5, 2013 9:51am
Quoting juisen25
{quote} Can you tell which top 10. Name mentions here please
don't want to name them here, but you can easily search top 10 brokers in terms of client base and trust me they are big all together as good as any big bank or institution. I believe they work in a consortium and in a block exactly knowing what retail traders are doing and doing opposite of them with probably 10 or 100 times bigger position size and imagine all broker doing same so they outrun retail traders.

why you see market moves up when bad data release or vice versa, why u find urself In a situation when u take a trade lets say sell being so sure about it and market moves the other way. how many times u have seen market hitting ur stop loss and then moving back in the direction of ur position. its all manipulated. but still this market gives you opportunity to make money as long as u follow institutions. I believe poster of this thread is focusing on the last point I just said i.e opportunity is there.
  • #66
  • Nov 5, 2013 9:59am Nov 5, 2013 9:59am
Quoting shobz99
{quote} don't want to name them here, but you can easily search top 10 brokers in terms of client base and trust me they are big all together as good as any big bank or institution. I believe they work in a consortium and in a block exactly knowing what retail traders are doing and doing opposite of them with probably 10 or 100 times bigger position size and imagine all broker doing same so they outrun retail traders. why you see market moves up when bad data release or vice versa, why u find urself In a situation when u take a trade lets say sell...
How I follow institutions. Did you mean it by COT DATA or something else?
  • #67
  • Nov 5, 2013 10:09am Nov 5, 2013 10:09am
Quoting juisen25
{quote} How I follow institutions. Did you mean it by COT DATA or something else?
COT, SSI, FF position meter

in fact anything by which you can identify the market (general retail traders sentiments) or by watching the charts and identifying fakeys as explained by the poster of the thread.
  • #68
  • Nov 5, 2013 10:30am Nov 5, 2013 10:30am
Quoting shobz99
I like your thread, nice to see everything well documented, I manage broker's back office and this is actually what we do and all other brokers do the same. some brokers (lets say top 10) with large client base have enough capital to move market in one direction. ECN or STP all have just one motive to earn from trader's loss. pls carry on with philosophy.
Interesting. You agree with alexx90 on the market being manipulated, but you don't see the entities working as a one. You see they are competing.

So, if they are competing, they have to deal with the uncertainty of what other entity might be doing.

To move the market, one entity must exposure capital (it can't move the market without getting a position), and there always a bigger fish in the lake, so even in that case the entity is at risk of being wrong and lose money.

Doesn't that level it down to other players?
  • #69
  • Nov 5, 2013 10:41am Nov 5, 2013 10:41am
Quoting gogonkt
{quote} Sound intersting! I'll read it next morning, Thx All the best Erik
You are welcome!

Alessandro
  • #70
  • Nov 5, 2013 10:45am Nov 5, 2013 10:45am
Quoting shobz99
I like your thread, nice to see everything well documented, I manage broker's back office and this is actually what we do and all other brokers do the same. some brokers (lets say top 10) with large client base have enough capital to move market in one direction. ECN or STP all have just one motive to earn from trader's loss. pls carry on with philosophy.
It's nice to see other people that know what I am doing.
  • #71
  • Nov 5, 2013 10:48am Nov 5, 2013 10:48am
Quoting shobz99
{quote} COT, SSI, FF position meter in fact anything by which you can identify the market (general retail traders sentiments) or by watching the charts and identifying fakeys as explained by the poster of the thread.

I agree
  • #72
  • Nov 5, 2013 12:29pm Nov 5, 2013 12:29pm
Quoting deltatrade
{quote} i don't believe anything you say. you are lying to yourself and anybody who reads this.
I think you are very naïve, my friend.

The Market Makers (big banks) are required to take positions against retail traders in order to give the market the liquidity (instant order fill) that makes the market work. Do you think the professional traders working for the big banks like taking positions against retail traders? You bet they do, because that is how they make their money. The professional traders at the big banks trade against the retail trader - it is just as simple as that. These guys are paid on the profit that they make for the big banks. They make that profit in a way that has been explained very well by Alesandro in this thread. Suck in the retail traders with an apparent move in one direction and then reverse taking out the retail traders stops. If you are so sure that the market makers are so pristine in there actions, look toward the market manipulation investigations that are ongoing as we write, both in Europe and in NY.

That does not mean you cannot make money trading the market. It was not until I started thinking like Alesandro that I started having success. You would do well to read this thread again with an open mind. I seldom respond to FF threads any more because of people like you who drop in by parachute and try to destroy a thread out of ignorance.
  • #73
  • Nov 5, 2013 12:43pm Nov 5, 2013 12:43pm
Quoting EasyRyder
{quote} I think you are very naïve, my friend. The Market Makers (big banks) are required to take positions against retail traders in order to give the market the liquidity (instant order fill) that makes the market work. Do you think the professional traders working for the big banks like taking positions against retail traders? You bet they do, because that is how they make their money. The professional traders at the big banks trade against the retail trader - it is just as simple as that. These guys are paid on the profit that they make for...
This is an helpful support to this thread, thanks! I appreciate that you said "They make that profit in a way that has been explained very well by Alesandro in this thread." I agree with all you said. You are welcome.
  • #74
  • Nov 5, 2013 1:58pm Nov 5, 2013 1:58pm
Quoting EasyRyder
{quote} I think you are very naïve, my friend. The Market Makers (big banks) are required to take positions against retail traders in order to give the market the liquidity (instant order fill) that makes the market work. Do you think the professional traders working for the big banks like taking positions against retail traders? You bet they do, because that is how they make their money. The professional traders at the big banks trade against the retail trader - it is just as simple as that. These guys are paid on the profit that they make for...

Well said sir, sometimes I wonder if people actually watch price move. Four banks controlling 50% of Forex market, you bet this game is rigged. With spreads and market makers it makes it really tough to win in this game.
  • #75
  • Nov 5, 2013 5:49pm Nov 5, 2013 5:49pm
Quoting EasyRyder
{quote} Suck in the retail traders with an apparent move in one direction and then reverse taking out the retail traders stops.
I strongly agree that the game is not a fair one, at least does not seem to be fair. But do you really think it is about retail traders? Is it not that the bankers play against one another? I would not like to speculate, I always go for facts and knowledge, it would be easy to get carried away with conspiracy theories, that's why those manipulation probes are so interesting for us. What is scary is that it is not a question of "if", but "how" does the market get manipulated. It will be a lesson to learn.
  • #76
  • Nov 5, 2013 7:25pm Nov 5, 2013 7:25pm
Quoting thexit
{quote} ... "if", but "how" does the market get manipulated. It will be a lesson to learn.
Well pointed. Could include "Who" in that thought.

Market can be manipulated in some degree, but, by Whom, and for how long?

In a more practical reasoning: how is it possible to identify who is the big fish at any given moment?

Thinking again, maybe the "Who" is more important than the "how".

I believe, being able to identify prices being manipulated in some particular moment is very useful (as alexx90 kindly shared). But not being able to tell who is playing the movement make it hard to take this information in consideration in a larger time frame with confidence.

Perhaps, if there is a way, I'd really like to know it.
  • #77
  • Nov 5, 2013 11:45pm Nov 5, 2013 11:45pm
Quoting EasyRyder
{quote} I think you are very naïve, my friend. The Market Makers (big banks) are required to take positions against retail traders in order to give the market the liquidity (instant order fill) that makes the market work. Do you think the professional traders working for the big banks like taking positions against retail traders? You bet they do, because that is how they make their money. The professional traders at the big banks trade against the retail trader - it is just as simple as that. These guys are paid on the profit that they make for...
1 million participants in the market with 1 milion trading ideas(different entry price, different stop loss, different take profit) and 5 trilion a day as a volume. that has to be the most simple thing in the world to control and anticipate.
if you came up with all the orders that were placed in the market during a year and discover that 10 banks that control 30% of the volume made a cartel that would be a different issue. but it's not.
  • #78
  • Nov 5, 2013 11:59pm Nov 5, 2013 11:59pm
Quoting EasyRyder
{quote} Suck in the retail traders with an apparent move in one direction and then reverse taking out the retail traders stops.
bullshit. prove it. your stupidity is beyond measurement.
  • #79
  • Nov 6, 2013 1:04am Nov 6, 2013 1:04am
Quoting deltatrade
{quote} 1 million participants in the market with 1 milion trading ideas(different entry price, different stop loss, different take profit) and 5 trilion a day as a volume. that has to be the most simple thing in the world to control and anticipate. if you came up with all the orders that were placed in the market during a year and discover that 10 banks that control 30% of the volume made a cartel that would be a different issue. but it's not.
http://www.bis.org/publ/work405.pdf

http://forexmagnates.com/7-banks-sue...h-authorities/

http://www.iol.co.za/business/intern...2#.UnnpxPnQn5w
  • #80
  • Nov 6, 2013 2:08am Nov 6, 2013 2:08am
Quoting srmfx
{quote} http://www.bis.org/publ/work405.pdf http://forexmagnates.com/7-banks-sue...h-authorities/ http://www.iol.co.za/business/intern...2#.UnnpxPnQn5w
"Bloomberg reported in June that traders at some banks said that they shared information about their positions through instant messages, executed their own trades before client orders and sought to manipulate the benchmark WM/Reuters rates."

the market is bigger then them. the investigation is just at the start.
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