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Attachments: C-12's Supply, Demand and PA thread
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C-12's Supply, Demand and PA thread

I wonder would C-12 or someone else be kind enough to clarify a few things?




C-12 wrote: "It just isn't my style of trading and I'm running out of time to get my trading career off the ground while also studying for some exams.

C-12, you seem to be trading great, posting huge pip gains in a day, why do you need another career? Could you please explain this.

Also, after ROOI gave me proof that I was not asking for, he spoon fed me ;-)

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...39#post6965339

I monitored Jiri's NewWay for a while, until he was banned by RTM. He was banned because he created an external blog and started charging people for his 'secrets'.

Jiri said on RTM, which is an extracted post now:

"There is a small monthly fee so i can build up my trading account faster." - Jiri

I am really confused by all these claims people make. If Jiri can make so much money, WHY CHARGE ANYONE ANYTHING even a SMALL monthly fee, to build an account????. This sounds bizarre, to say the least.

Also, if C-12, can make a thousand pips in a day, why does he need another career?

Can someone please explain what is going on?

Thanks
some swings from today closed

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Quoting srt
{quote} Why does it matter what someone else wants to do with their life? Aren't we here to try to learn something from these threads? Does it matter if these traders trade cash or simulator? If you're learning from their posts, keep viewing & learning. If not, maybe find a new thread to learn from. Why does Warren Buffett keep running his business? He doesn't need more money? There would never be a billionaire if they stopped when they had enough money. Maybe traders want something else to do other than just trade. It can be a pretty solitude career....
"Why does it matter what someone else wants to do with their life?" - srt

When that life impacts on so many others, it really does matter. Especially in this environment.

And when members such as C-12 try to encourage others to join external forums such as AG, by hyping their results, it is ever more serious.


You 'srt' sound like Rooi when he pointed me at Jiri's thread on RTM to try and prove a point.

It matters very much. False hope sucks many people in.

"If not, maybe find a new thread to learn from." - srt

Let me tell you what I have I learned from this thread first ...

C-12 cannot make it, despite his trading skills and thousands of pips daily trades.

If C-12 could make it, time would not be running out for him and he would remain trading.

ROOI directs me to Jiri's thread on another forum as an example of someone who has made it, and what we find is that Jiri cannot make it either, without charging other people for his 'secrets' and getting banned....

... there is something seriously wrong here.

Imagine if you could trade like C-12 claims here, or as ROOI pointed out, Jiri trades over on RTM before he was banned of course ;-)... imagine that ... what more would you need?

... there is something seriously wrong here.
4Xfactor, please if you don't believe in this way we trade here then just don't post it every time. We know your opinion already.

Fact is, this way of trading works and there are many traders that made it and are trading full-time with supply & demand and PA.

Fact is also, that it requires a huge amount of discipline and behind all this is the main ingredient, us humans and our emotions.

Trading is maybe 10-20 % about knowledge, the rest is a mind game and psychology plays a massive role in trading. So the hard part is always following the plan with discipline.

You can think of Sam Seiden what you want, but he just recently stated in an interview that he will soon release a book how he trades and is successful in the markets. He will reveil lots of stuff as he figured out over time he can explain people how he trades in detail, yet people still cannot make the same profits, and that's why he is realizing the book. So what does this have to do with this here? Well, even tough we know it works to trade that way and people can do it, it doesn't mean we can do it ourselves, even though we know how it can be done. Having the discipline and consistency is probably the hardest task in the market and this takes a lot of time.
  • Post #2,905
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  • Edited Oct 31, 2013 6:53am Oct 30, 2013 7:36pm | Edited Oct 31, 2013 6:53am
Quoting srt
{quote} Like I said previously, If you're not learning something here, you have the freedom to find a more entertaining thread. If you can't decide on your own who's trying to take your money, probably best to avoid ALL trading threads. If you know they're just trying to get your money, learn to trade on your own or elsewhere. They've given all the information for free on these threads. You're not being forced to pay a fee for a special site so continue to learn from the free knowledge. If it doesn't look like they know what they're talking about,...
I have learned many things here ....



"They've given all the information for free on these threads. You're not being forced to pay a fee for a special site so continue to learn from the free knowledge. If it doesn't look like they know what they're talking about, go elsewhere. Pretty simple." -srt

If they knew what they were talking about, they would be NOT BE going elsewhere. If C-12 could really trade at this level ... please?? You think he'd be thinking about leaving this as a career - is this a joke? Free information IS one thing, but real results, with real money (not demo or micro or nano account) ... that does not exist on this thread. Also this is a promotional thread for AG.

Talking about fees - ROOI pointed me to Jiri's thread on RTM which became a fee paying service, for which he was banned.
Quoting Infest
4Xfactor, please if you don't believe in this way we trade here then just don't post it every time. We know your opinion already. Fact is, this way of trading works and there are many traders that made it and are trading full-time with supply & demand and PA. Fact is also, that it requires a huge amount of discipline and behind all this is the main ingredient, us humans and our emotions. Trading is maybe 10-20 % about knowledge, the rest is a mind game and psychology plays a massive role in trading....


Have you made it?
Quoting 4Xfactor
{quote} I have learned many things here .... \"They've given all the information for free on these threads. You're not being forced to pay a fee for a special site so continue to learn from the free knowledge. If it doesn't look like they know what they're talking about, go elsewhere. Pretty simple.\" -srt If they knew what they were talking about, they would be NOT BE going elsewhere. If C-12 could really trade at this level ... please?? You think he'd be thinking about leaving this as a career - is this a joke? Free information IS one thing, but...

Hows the trolling and moaning going?

Feeling better yet?

Each to their own.Let people be.
We miss 100% of the shots we don't take
Quoting 4Xfactor
{quote} I have learned many things here .... \"They've given all the information for free on these threads. You're not being forced to pay a fee for a special site so continue to learn from the free knowledge. If it doesn't look like they know what they're talking about, go elsewhere. Pretty simple.\" -srt If they knew what they were talking about, they would be NOT BE going elsewhere. If C-12 could really trade at this level ... please?? You think he'd be thinking about leaving this as a career - is this a joke? Free information IS one thing, but...
Just realize one thing: successful traders don't spend their time posting on forums. You won't find Paul Tudor Jones giving advice around here or setting up a website to teach you how to trade. He's a top notch trader and doesn't give a flying one about mentoring someone on the Web or having a fan base on which to make some extra bucks.

I personally just come here lurking for a fun read from time to time, to jump start my trading day with a few laughts.

People are just sharing methods, techniques, etc and looking for a way to progress. I do belive it's a positive thing, but rest assured that nobody here will turn YOU into a trading machine either free or charge or even for a small "fee". Only YOU can do that in the isolation of your own hard work, research, studies and practice.

If you'r into a community mindset, then I think you should be respectful and bring a positive feedback to these forums, otherwise, if you're more of a loner (like myself) just have a few laughts, maybe take what serves you and be quiet and still respectful of what other people are trying to achieve as a community.

Good luck.
Quoting Rooi
{quote} Hows the trolling and moaning going? Feeling better yet? Each to their own.Let people be.


How's promoting Jiri's paid service going on RTM (where he is now banned) and elsewhere?

P.S. Now that you've found the Fractals Indicator in MT4, I'm sure your trading career will take off.
At least it didn't take you five years to find that ;-)
Quoting tradista
{quote} Just realize one thing: successful traders don't spend their time posting on forums. You won't find Paul Tudor Jones giving advice around here or setting up a website to teach you how to trade. He's a top notch trader and doesn't give a flying one about mentoring someone on the Web or having a fan base on which to make some extra bucks. I personally just come here lurking for a fun read from time to time, to jump start my trading day with a few laughts. People are just sharing methods, techniques, etc and looking for a way to progress. I...


Thank you for your feedback. I understand this .... after all this thread is in the commercial section. I will let the matter finally rest, now. I have followed this thread from the start, even before it was placed into the commercial section. But lately, some things really do not make sense in this thread, and newbies should be very, very careful of the hype which is being created here, and where that might actually lead. There is lack of transparency, and people appear to be distorting their performance to enhance the profile of their other external forums.

Once again, thank you for your advice!
Quoting 4Xfactor
{quote} There is lack of transparency, and people appear to be distorting their performance to enhance the profile of their other external forums. Once again, thank you for your advice!
You're welcome 4x. I understand your frustration, but its the nature of a place like this.. take everything with a grain of salt, always and its ok.

Newbies should remember why they come here in the first place... (to learn, no?) so what do you think are the other million forum users doing here? the same thing, no? So basically there's really nobody doing the true teaching (why would they if they make millions for themselves?)... So we are left with two types of forum users: the "virgins" the ones who are still naive and do want to learn everything they can (the rookies) and the ones who have been here for a while and built a "fan base" that now regards them as some kind of "guru", these are just trying to make their "knowledge" work for them because trading doesn't really cut it yet. Because this is an industry that is based on misinformation and requires a totally different approach to success, the easiest route in this business will always be the "education" route for those who do not have what it takes to climb the ladder of becoming a top trader. I mean, there are tens of thousands of wannabe traders pratically BEGGING for someone to teach them the easy way! It's an irresistible calling when everyone around you thinks you know what you are talking about and trusts your words!

IMHO, I'd say everyone who spends time in forums is in the 90% of wannabes, me included. Period. If you're in the 10% who win you'll be totally focused when in the markets and be living the good life when not trading. You won't be wasting time teaching or giving advice to strangers on the internet, and you won't even need the money... the markets are paying you your fair share.

So basically, expect no real top notch mentor around here. Just take what suits your style, there's still good information in many of these threads, though fragmented and biased, learn it, develop it and make it work for yourself. You might take some for free and you might want to pay to acquire some particular knowledge, do it, it's an investment anyway, but don't expect to jump into the markets right after and buy your new mansion in the next couple months. You're bulding a puzzle which revolves around YOURSELF and the markets. Take your time.

That's the way it is, IMHO and there's nothing anyone can do. In time, naivity ceases and those who persist will come to grasp these little subtelties of the game. Everyone's here for the money one way or another, so it's ok. You lose some, you win some more hopefully.

Cheers.
Well said tradista

All systems of divination, like music itself,work through patterns.
Quoting 4Xfactor
{quote} Thank you for your feedback. I understand this .... after all this thread is in the commercial section. I will let the matter finally rest, now. I have followed this thread from the start, even before it was placed into the commercial section. But lately, some things really do not make sense in this thread, and newbies should be very, very careful of the hype which is being created here, and where that might actually lead. There is lack of transparency, and people appear to be distorting their performance to enhance the profile of their...
There's a big imbalance on forums between discussions of trading logic, money management/discipline -the essential knowledge, and trader's ego/display of discipline i.e those that just want to demonstrate their trades. I am not saying the latter is bad or not helpful, but the imbalance creates a false picture to the inexperienced trader.

If you do not know what is really required to succeed at trading then threads such as these will likely cause frustration when you come to 'copy' the technique. The real meat and bones to trading successfully is little discussed especially in SD trading forums and other websites. But the info is out there and is generic to all trading. It is up to you to prioritise that information and act upon it and view threads like this with less importance.

Be truthful with yourself, acknowledge what is important and turn that negative energy you have into positive action.
Well seeing as today is big news after big news after big news day I have some time to post 1 or 2 of my thoughts about all this that has been going on and I for 1 would not like that the thread end negatively so here goes for all the people that might read this thread in future.

So this like all other threads will die now that the author of it has stopped posting.What the reason might be will be up to him to explain if he feels the need.
Regarding C-12 trading and transparency I would like to say that he as all other did and will forever have losing trades and winning trades.There are no holy grail's and 100% systems so why does he or anyone else need to show losers?The only person that learns from the losers is the trader that makes the call to enter the market.THE REST OF US CAN ONLY LEARN FROM OTHER PEOPLES WINNERS.We can try and see what they saw.

"See what they saw" brings me to my next point about trading and Supply and Demand

Everyone has there own way of seeing sup/dem levels and trading.It is only a way to analyze the market same as indicators,support and Resistance,fibs,news,makro/micro news analysis. Nobody has the same opinion and/or views about what will happen.What is important is that you have your own view.Otherwise you might as well give you money to hedge fund to trade because you are certainly not trading or forming you own views and trades

Then the most important bit I want to say about Supply and Demand is that it is far from a SYSTEM it is only a way to analyze the market.Every single trader needs a system(no need to go into details about that).You can build a plan around the concept of Sup/Dem but it is not a plan in its self.

I have learnt a great deal from all that have posted in this thread over the last year and I thank you all for all the help.I know that the ones who work on their trading and themselves will get there in the end(myself included)

So I wish you all well

ROOI
We miss 100% of the shots we don't take
Wise words indeed Rooi. For me it was a great thread as in the past I paid little attention to price action candle analysis alongside SD levels. Especially on lower time frames. So it was proof for me that it was possible, although not my style, yet equally transferable to higher time frames. Ken's BS thread, again different style and well presented, and now we have Alfonso's thread which I must say is absolutely superb. Very detailed. He has put in a huge effort and I've picked up a few golden nuggets from his insight. A very clever and driven guy.
Not much moving today.
Oil short @ 1H supply.
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Rooi


Your statement: “so why does he or anyone else need to show losers? The only person that learns from the losers is the trader that makes the call to enter the market. THE REST OF US CAN ONLY LEARN FROM OTHER PEOPLES WINNERS."


I would respectfully disagree. Here's why.


1) Let’s say you get stopped out at the beginning: Proper money management will turn this loser into a successful trade. How is that possible? You executed the trade with proper money management. You took your loss according to plan. You risked no more than what was proper in relation to your equity. You are able to move on knowing that this is purely a numbers game conditioned with a bit of art and science.


2) Let say you are in the trade it is moving in your chosen direction then, all of sudden, price begins to move against you: Improper trade management can cause you to lose more than you should. What you may see (observing a loss) is how you should handle this aspect so that you minimize your loss. We can get in anywhere, we can get out anywhere. It is what we do in the middle, Win or Lose, which defines our profitability.


So yes, observing losers can be an exceptional learning experience. What to do, how to handle... It is what all traders struggle with... mechanically and psychologically.


The later being the most difficult to overcome. IMHO it is the single BIGGEST reason why traders fail. The inability to deal with losing. I have heard all the blah, blah, blah... “Oh just give me a method or system that truly makes money and I can trade it “Really? If it were that easy there would be a whole lot of people making money. Ever notice that a very large percentage of all questions revolve around what?? Loss... You will even hear in those who supposedly have a handle on what they’re doing... still display issues with it... This does not work... that does not work... whatever... OK... So, every single trading method has been a failure?? I would argue it was not the method as it was the trader using the method.


The markets are full of patterns...Why? Because of who trades them, humans...? A patterned structured individual executing a decision... Whether it is an algo and a person, executing a decision creates a pattern. The pattern is recognizable... Both the algo and human can recognize the pattern. Both will exhibit loss. Here’s the difference: The algo will eventually lose due to the market conditions changing and the inability to adapt to loss. The human will eventually lose due to the market conditions changing and the inability to adapt to loss.


The point... Both lose. Your ability to manage that loses, to see, understand it, and most of all deal with it... will define your profitability. We are all not taught to think in term of probabilities but in terms of absolutes... The rewire that must take place is a long, painful, expensive journey. The more you see of both sides... Winners and Losers...the more balanced you become... essentially you rewire yourself. This will take a great deal of time for most. Unfortunately, most will give up along the way... Why... Wining 4-5 out 10 times is psychologically difficult. Why do you think so many look for that method or system that will give them 7-8 out of 10 winners...it is at that point in their trading journey that says " they cannot handle the low percentage winner " Even though it may be the more profitable.

Just a point of view

Good trading

TSD
Quoting C-12
{quote} I use a modded version of LVEO that has a hidden stop which I use for emergency only. I paid the owner a small fee to add this in. I try and close out my trades manually thesedays but I left the PC after the rejection at supply. Came back and had been instantly stopped out. Lesson learned.. Don't leave desk when NY opens. If you want a copy of this version let me know. It is slightly buggy so not I'm releasing it on here. Also the owner may not be happy.

can I get a copy please ? thank you T. :-)
Quoting Porkpie
Wise words indeed Rooi. For me it was a great thread as in the past I paid little attention to price action candle analysis alongside SD levels. Especially on lower time frames. So it was proof for me that it was possible, although not my style, yet equally transferable to higher time frames. Ken's BS thread, again different style and well presented, and now we have Alfonso's thread which I must say is absolutely superb. Very detailed. He has put in a huge effort and I've picked up a few golden nuggets from his insight. A very clever and driven...
Hi

Yes agree with regarding the fact that C-12 showed a lot of us that it can be done to trade S/D on lower TF even though in the end it looked like it became to much for his nerves and Im sure he will be back stronger than ever when he is ready and he will have a more "set in stone" approach to like the rest of the good S/D traders.

There has been a huge number of good S/D websites and threads that have started recently and I for one love the fact that people create places like these where we can share our views and learn a few new "tricks" from each other or just plain show other people if we had a nice trade.Trading can be lonely and frustrating at times and threads and website where people have a similar view of the market as you do can often be a good place to find "friends" and a helping hand.
We miss 100% of the shots we don't take
Last week trades.
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Price Is The Best Indicator Itself.
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