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so you got rich, what now?

  • #101
  • Oct 27, 2013 10:08am Oct 27, 2013 10:08am
Quoting PipTrapper
{quote} If I ever crash, I'll buy you a beer from what's left over. Just because you cannot find an edge, doesn't mean that nobody has one. Perhaps trading is not for you... just like brain surgery is not for me.
That's right. Nobody said trading is for everyone. Or that it should necessarily be easy, if I may add.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #102
  • Oct 27, 2013 10:18am Oct 27, 2013 10:18am
Quoting vox dei
{quote} By Odin's beard and all the gods... you have this unshakable fixation that the markets move 100% random. That's plain and simple, false. Markets are not like the lottery. In the market there are things one can control that improve the odds. My 2 pips take it or leave it. Keep the assumption that MM in by itself is not an edge, cause that's true. Discard the assumption that the markets and lottery are just the same thing, cause it's false.
I never said that the markets are like the lottery or that market moves are 100% random.
However, the financial markets are like a big casino.
  • #103
  • Oct 27, 2013 10:28am Oct 27, 2013 10:28am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I never said that the markets are like the lottery. However, the financial markets are like a big casino.
That's a even worse scenario than the lottery. You are right though, the financial markets are like a big casino, for the unprepared.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #104
  • Edited 10:46am Oct 27, 2013 10:34am | Edited 10:46am
Quoting vox dei
{quote} That's a even worse scenario than the lottery. You are right though, the financial markets are like a big casino, for the unprepared.
I don't want to get to far off topic.
I want to shed some light on the reason why so many people lose.
I believe I am getting close to the very nature of the beast.
To be of benefit to a society in a free market economy speculators MUST LOSE.
90 % of traders (the losers) are doing their job to help the economy -- they facilitate price discovery, bear the risk and provide liquidity for the benefit of the producers: the REAL CONTRIBUTORS TO SOCIETY.
Speculators / traders are a necessary evil. They are the whores of the financial world. And in the same way as in prostitution, a market economy must tolerate traders -- as long as they fulfill their role, that is, to lose to the producers.
Without this grease on its many wheels the free market would grind to a halt.

Therefore the majority will be losers, of course a very few will do well. That is unavoidable.

Looking at the trading universe from this angle everything falls into place..
  • #105
  • Oct 27, 2013 10:35am Oct 27, 2013 10:35am
Quoting PipTrapper
{quote} Fact is that you are generalizing. Okay you didn't lose money, but you had a bad experience... and from that bad experience you decide that the entire retail forex industry is a scam/hoax. Therefore you have proven the point I made in my previous post. Anyway, don't feel bad. Forex isn't for everyone. Best of luck with your hobby / being the forex expert at lunch / picking up girls with your money mgmt skills.

Not generalizing just analizing.I can not prove anything let alone others point of view, yours included.Read my complete posting anyway.
How do you explain the Retail Forex bussines model? You simply can`t win in the long run. And not that you are not skilled enough!
Contrary to well placed slogans like "95-97% of traders are losing money " most of the traders having enough screen hours
can easily reach a >50% W/L ratio! Brokers make their Money in a "honest" way from naive newbies (not skilled enough)
and ripping off, scamming the majority of experienced traders. Just read broker Reviews on any Forex forum! The only few positive Reviews are obvious
marketers postings, the others are only frightening stories about either elaborated or clumsy scams!

At the same time cohorts of marketers keep flattering the ego of "traders wannabe" with slogans such as "Forex is not for everyone" and spare
no means to keep the Retail Forex flame alive! Nobody is winning Money in Retail Forex but the broker, IBs, marketers, systemsI indicators resellers!

But ok if I change my mind and want to "trade" again,which broker do you recommend?Oanda maybe...?
  • #106
  • Oct 27, 2013 10:46am Oct 27, 2013 10:46am
Quoting webcom
{quote} ...,which broker do you recommend?Oanda maybe...?
I think oanda is honest, but never had to take my money out . I tried once but the take out fee was £10 and the account was small so I left the moeny on the acount
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #107
  • Oct 27, 2013 10:52am Oct 27, 2013 10:52am
Quoting webcom
{quote} Not generalizing just analizing.I can not prove anything let alone others point of view, yours included.Read my complete posting anyway. How do you explain the Retail Forex bussines model? You simply can`t win in the long run. And not that you are not skilled enough! Contrary to well placed slogans like \"95-97% of traders are losing money \" most of the traders having enough screen hours can easily reach a >50% W/L ratio! Nobody is winning Money in Retail Forex but the broker, IBs, marketers, systemsI indicators resellers!...
True. But they are only winning if you let it happen. Just don't let them.
P.S. I have an Oanda account. Absolutely no problems ... so far
  • #108
  • Oct 27, 2013 1:43pm Oct 27, 2013 1:43pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I don't want to get to far off topic. I want to shed some light on the reason why so many people lose. I believe I am getting close to the very nature of the beast. To be of benefit to a society in a free market economy speculators MUST LOSE. 90 % of traders (the losers) are doing their job to help the economy -- they facilitate price discovery, bear the risk and provide liquidity for the benefit of the producers: the REAL CONTRIBUTORS TO SOCIETY. Speculators / traders are a necessary evil. They are the whores of the financial world. And...
I agree with your conclusion that the majority necessarily have to be losers, especially retail. What I don't agree with is that ALL retailers necessarily have to be losers.

I have a theory on why financial markets work this way too. For starters, nothing is at looks at first glance. The world is very much like the Matrix movie. There is no such thing as a free market economy. Money is the means and the end by which the economy, and consequently the markets, are controlled by an elite. The markets being nothing more nothing less, than a mechanism for the continual transfer of wealth to this elite. Let's apply these crazy sounding ideas to Forex market, QA style:

Q: What moves currencies the most?
A: Interest rates and money supply.

Q: Who controls both?
A: Central banks.

Q: Are central banks public or privately owned?
A: Most central banks in the world are privately owned, including the U.S. Federal Reserve, who owns the monopoly on the production of US dollar, which is used to settle most Forex contracts.

Q: Which private entities own these central banks then?
A: The biggest financial institutions on the planet. The same financial institutions where brokers have accounts, like you do with your broker. The same financial institutions responsible for most Forex volume.

Q: Isn't that completely unethical, and unfair?
A: Yes, it is. But, guess what, it's not illegal. It's just the way it works. Markets are rigged by this few, hence the vast majority have and will continue to lose against them.


@ EUR_USD: Apologies for off-topic talk.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #109
  • Oct 27, 2013 2:49pm Oct 27, 2013 2:49pm
Quoting webcom
{quote} Not generalizing just analizing.I can not prove anything let alone others point of view, yours included.Read my complete posting anyway. How do you explain the Retail Forex bussines model? You simply can`t win in the long run. And not that you are not skilled enough! Contrary to well placed slogans like \"95-97% of traders are losing money \" most of the traders having enough screen hours can easily reach a >50% W/L ratio! Brokers make their Money in a \"honest\" way from naive newbies (not skilled enough) and ripping off, scamming the majority...
Nobody with anything positive to say about a broker bothers posting in the Forex review boards unless they have something to gain from doing so (IBs). Furthermore, those who have an axe to grind with a broker will almost always give them a bad review so that they feel at least modestly vindicated. Therefore what you find in these review boards (like Forex Peace Army) is not really objective reviews, but rather a bitching board for disgruntled traders. nuf said about that.

As for brokers, stick with the ones that are owned by reputable banks or those that are publicly traded and subject to maximum scrutiny.
Oanda may be one of them. I don't know as I have no experience with them. I only have a demo acct there. FXCM, FXDD and MB Trading are some that will give you good service (I have personally had live accounts with all 3 and I'm quite impressed). Another one I have had a live account with and would not recommend to my worst enemy is IBFX. Mind you that was years ago and they might have improved since then. Definitely stay away from Cypriot and Russian brokers unless another trader you know and trust can vouch for them, coz they are usually the worst bucket shops.
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it
  • #110
  • Oct 27, 2013 5:39pm Oct 27, 2013 5:39pm
Quoting Chicky
{quote} I am going to write a very well thought post here that will end suffering of traders still struggling. You will be able to make a plan for yourself how and when you are going to make your $1 million right from this market despite all those stop huntings, spikes, weeks of consolidations, fake breakouts, etc. I rarely make a serious and no bullshit post. This is going to be a remarkable post that many will refer to in the future. I have no intention of hijacking this thread. Since explaining this process will require answering several questions...
To simply make a post is not hijacking a thread!

Here is my very well thought out post from about 6 months back. I am looking forward to yours Chicky.

This is for those traders who insist on using "proper" money management.

High Yield Using Proper Money Management

-- Growing an account 1000% in a year using a risk per trade of 0.50% or less is not impossible. However it is very, very unlikely. But it is much more likely you can do it in 3 years using proper money management. Most peoples only problem in Forex is patience. They win some and they recklessly lose it back thinking they can make a whole year in 1 day.

With $10,000 starting bank roll, if you have the patience and skill enough to even make 10% per month and compound each previous months ending balance, you will make 213% in 1 year (~$31,300). That's not much money? Okay, well can you keep this up for 5 years? Because that's some serious money. And 10? All the money you could ever dream of.

For calculation purposes we will use a raw 30% tax per year even on the first year (you will very likely be taxed less as tax law is favorable to spot FX traders) to show at the very minimum what will be made if you can continue to make 210% per year (or in that ball park).

So after year 1 of taxes you lose ~$6000 of your $21k profits). Year 2 the account starts at $25,000. After another 210% gain, the account is at $77,500. Taxes of 30% on profits of ($52500) are $15,750). So the account is back to $61750 for year 3. After a 210% gain, the account ends year 3 at $191425. Taxes of 30% on profits of $129675 leave $90700 in net profit. Year 4 starts with $152200. After a 210% gain, year 4 ends with $471820. After a 30% tax on profit of $319500, the total net profit for year 4 is $223700. Year 5 begins with $376000. After a 210% gain, year 5 ends with the account at $1165000 ($1m mark). After taxes of 30% on profits of $789000, year 5 ends with a net profit of $552000. That means the 6th year starts with $930,000.

So after 5 years the profit on $10,000 was $920,000. 92,000% in 5 years.

Yeah. Just imagine what that $920,000 another 5 years of hard work and proper MM will do for your account (hint: more money than you could ever know what to do with).

PATIENCE is the KEY.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #111
  • Oct 27, 2013 5:48pm Oct 27, 2013 5:48pm
Quoting deltatrade
{quote} i almost believed you and then you say something like... {quote} https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/results.ftl . i think this is were your intelligence comes from. look idiot. there is a big difference between courage and stupidity. do you know who says that? parkour guys. they know that your life is important . in finance is important to know how to take risks. there is a difference between crossing the atlantic on a amazonean sail boat and on a ship build by europeans.
you are an idiot.

20 lots x 2500 pips = $500k

you honestly think the big hands who were short UJ for 5 years weren't going to take profits just because of retail traders?

its just laughable if you actually think that.


i guess i should rephrase. any retail trader with a capital of $10k or more... could have piled on to Yen shorts (especially GBPJPY) and made $500k+

please, tell me why they couldn't have.


whats with all these bullshit myths about OTCFX?? if your broker is hedging 100% of your trades you have no conflict of interest risk and neither do they.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #112
  • Oct 27, 2013 5:51pm Oct 27, 2013 5:51pm
Quoting Rag2RichesFX
{quote} To simply make a post is not hijacking a thread! Here is my very well thought out post from about 6 months back. I am looking forward to yours Chicky. This is for those traders who insist on using \"proper\" money management. High Yield Using Proper Money Management -- Growing an account 1000% in a year using a risk per trade of 0.50% or less is not impossible. However it is very, very unlikely. But it is much more likely you can do it in 3 years using proper money management. Most peoples only problem in Forex is patience. They win some...
There's only one question I have here. According to your calculations, what would be the lot size per trade in years 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10?
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it
  • #113
  • Oct 28, 2013 1:12am Oct 28, 2013 1:12am
Quoting Patience
{quote} Very nice Dopey. I love positive stories. I'm not sure why I don't like the word dream. Must have met too many dreamers in my life that didn't go anywhere or do anything. I'm gonna have to think about that. But to me you had a goal and you worked towards it. You call it a dream, I call it a goal. An achievable and realistic goal. But this thread isn't about achieving realistic goals. It's about making $5 million from forex most probably from a $500 account. Now that's what I call a dream!
I don't think I summed up my thoughts clearly. I was trying to illustrate that I used both components, having a dream and sticking to it, and working my ass off. That work by necessity followed a plan: the structure of university, and following a career path, like all others, which began with working less desirable jobs, gaining experience, then moving on to the next level until I got to where I wanted to be. I agree that dreams without a plan simply remain dreams.

Also, I'm not sure that the difference between "dream" and "goal" is a semantic one. At least it isn't to me, but it very well may be for others.
  • #114
  • Oct 28, 2013 2:56am Oct 28, 2013 2:56am
Given the uncertainties of trading. It is also wise to think about what will you do if you lost that 5 million dollars (or a large percentage of that) that you make from trading. I do think it's unlikely most people will actually stop trading completely if they made 5 M from it. So it's a possible scenario.
'For the market to work, it needs people who think that they can beat it.'
  • #115
  • Oct 28, 2013 3:04am Oct 28, 2013 3:04am
does anyone afraid to be rich? i do
my personal data is with the broker, if my broker sell that data along with my withdraw account balance, to hush hush or something, someone may suddenly knock at my door.
put it simple, maybe just a new luxury car salesman, or bank staff looking for customer, people looking for investor or worst.
  • #116
  • Oct 28, 2013 3:12am Oct 28, 2013 3:12am
Quoting Gwan
does anyone afraid to be rich? i do my personal data is with the broker, if my broker sell that data along with my withdraw account balance, to hush hush or something, someone may suddenly knock at my door. put it simple, maybe just a new luxury car salesman, or bank staff looking for customer, people looking for investor or worst.
Inserted Video
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it
  • #117
  • Oct 28, 2013 3:48am Oct 28, 2013 3:48am
Quoting Gwan
does anyone afraid to be rich? i do my personal data is with the broker, if my broker sell that data along with my withdraw account balance, to hush hush or something, someone may suddenly knock at my door. put it simple, maybe just a new luxury car salesman, or bank staff looking for customer, people looking for investor or worst.
normal broker won't sell your data, besides if you won't be showing off with your money (for ex buying expensive cars etc) nobody will know you have them
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #118
  • Oct 28, 2013 4:44am Oct 28, 2013 4:44am
Quoting Eur Usd
{quote} normal broker won't sell your data, besides if you won't be showing off with your money (for ex buying expensive cars etc) nobody will know you have them
some trading competition do include an agreement to use the winner as advertiser. glad most people think they will broke in few account away.
  • #119
  • Oct 31, 2013 4:06am Oct 31, 2013 4:06am
Very well chance of $ 5 million for great business and comfortable life...
  • #120
  • Oct 31, 2013 11:50am Oct 31, 2013 11:50am
Guys, checks this out.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/first-...155600268.html
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