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  • #2,401
  • Oct 23, 2013 11:19am Oct 23, 2013 11:19am
You don't normally get a move like that if there are tons of people selling do you. If there's nobody selling so who are you going to buy from? How's that technical?
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  • #2,402
  • Oct 23, 2013 1:04pm Oct 23, 2013 1:04pm
Quoting Primi
You don't normally get a move like that if there are tons of people selling do you. If there's nobody selling so who are you going to buy from? How's that technical? {image}

By technical, I don't mean Technical Analysis. I have no clue what you are talking about. Your chart adds absolutely nothing to the discussion about the 30 pip slippage or 30 pip spread widening in a pair like EURUSD.

It's not about who is selling or buying, it's about brokers knowing your hand in poker even before you do. Get the point? That's why being a shady, unregulated broker is such a great business. I might as well open one to take money away from 'smart' retail traders.

Just like a casino.

Clear enough for you now?
  • #2,403
  • Oct 23, 2013 1:34pm Oct 23, 2013 1:34pm
Quoting jupiter_peak
30 pip spread widening, slippage or whatever in that ball game for EURUSD is plain stealing.
The spread didn't widen by 30 pips, no one said that. The market gaped by quite a bit and Pepper had nothing to do with the market's move, they could just execute on market prices.

Pepper details multiple times over that they are a market execution broker acting in am ECN/DMA model... they only execute on market prices available, they don't mess with the price quote from their LPs..

Quoting jupiter_peak
Period. No technical explanation will ever do the job of convincing anyone otherwise.

I just hope that some people stop with the technical BS explanations. Best.
So the forex market is a magical money machine, where the facts don't matter, and the few of us who want to help others understand why it works the way it does should just shut it? Right..
FXGears.com
  • #2,404
  • Oct 23, 2013 1:45pm Oct 23, 2013 1:45pm
Quoting jupiter_peak
{quote} By technical, I don't mean Technical Analysis. I have no clue what you are talking about. Your chart adds absolutely nothing to the discussion about the 30 pip slippage or 30 pip spread widening in a pair like EURUSD. It's not about who is selling or buying, it's about brokers knowing your hand in poker even before you do. Get the point? That's why being a shady, unregulated broker is such a great business. I might as well open one to take money away from 'smart' retail traders. Just like a casino. Clear enough for you now?
... did you even look into this situation, or the broker, before joining in with your thoughts? (And you accused Primi of not adding anything to the conversation... ironic.)

There was no 30 pip widening.

Pepperstone is regulated by the ASIC, and they have a clean record with them.

Pepper, and other brokers, didn't choose to gap the market during the NFP news release, they could only react to the gap in the market when it happened. They also didn't know which way the market would move after the release, so they have no idea who's going to get stopped out and who's going to make money. So all this "knowing your poker hand before you do" doesn't hold up.
FXGears.com
  • #2,405
  • Oct 23, 2013 2:29pm Oct 23, 2013 2:29pm
Quoting jupiter_peak
{quote} By technical, I don't mean Technical Analysis. I have no clue what you are talking about. Your chart adds absolutely nothing to the discussion about the 30 pip slippage or 30 pip spread widening in a pair like EURUSD. It's not about who is selling or buying, it's about brokers knowing your hand in poker even before you do. Get the point? That's why being a shady, unregulated broker is such a great business. I might as well open one to take money away from 'smart' retail traders. Just like a casino. Clear enough for you now?

I said nothing about technical analysis either. And it has a lot to do with who's buying or selling.

It's simply supply and demand imbalance. That's what moves the price, nothing else. The higher this imbalance is the stronger price moves. And yes, sometimes it gaps. You can clearly see there was (next to) no supply. If there is no supply then you can't buy at that price (in your case get out of your short with a buy order). You had to offer more. Much more. And when you finally got somebody to sell you what you needed that was your deal price. You obviously didn't like it but that was the price. This adds nothing to the discussion about slippage? That is slippage. Were there any deals at a better price than you got? Probably some but not many. And definitely not enough to satisfy everybody.

It's not broker induced slippage. It's market slippage.

Your problem is you think your broker is after you because you lost money. It's really not. You lost money because you made a mistake. There are people trading very large orders with 2 or 3 pip stop losses with pepperstone and they don't have problems. Because they know when to stay out.

I don't know how to explain it any better. Plus what Jack said of course.

I've had a number of issues with Pepperstone as well. Moderators even had to clean the thread because of one of them and subsequent strong language from certain members. It happens. But your problem is not like that at all.
  • #2,406
  • Oct 24, 2013 2:37am Oct 24, 2013 2:37am
if there were no slippage during the news we would all be millionaires right now
i lose money for a living
  • #2,407
  • Oct 24, 2013 3:02am Oct 24, 2013 3:02am
Quoting tylerbose
if there were no slippage during the news we would all be millionaires right now
You guys keep coming up putting words in people mouths. No one said "no slippage". We said pepper slippage vs other brokers slippage. Clearly a hidden agenda thread. I'm outta here.
Trading = a mirror to your human flaws. Fix them or be fixed.
  • #2,408
  • Oct 24, 2013 3:37am Oct 24, 2013 3:37am
Quoting soso
{quote} You guys keep coming up putting words in people mouths. No one said \"no slippage\". We said pepper slippage vs other brokers slippage. Clearly a hidden agenda thread. I'm outta here.
No hidden agenda - just calling it like I see it. I've never had a problem with Pepper
  • #2,409
  • Oct 24, 2013 9:34am Oct 24, 2013 9:34am
Quoting Primi
{quote} I said nothing about technical analysis either. And it has a lot to do with who's buying or selling. It's simply supply and demand imbalance. That's what moves the price, nothing else. The higher this imbalance is the stronger price moves. And yes, sometimes it gaps. You can clearly see there was (next to) no supply. If there is no supply then you can't buy at that price (in your case get out of your short with a buy order). You had to offer more. Much more. And when you finally got somebody to sell you what you needed that was your deal...
You obviously have no clue how an FX broker works. Especially one that is MT4 based.

Plus, I have never asked for your expertise regarding market imbalance, orderflow, TA, trendlines... blah, blah, blah whatever. And I am not interested if you know how the market works or not. If you want to tell people how the market works, I suggest you go start some other thread.

This is simply not the point here as SOSO pointed out. If you lack to see the obvious, I am not here to teach you otherwise and I hope you don't try to teach me otherwise.

I have been in this business LONG ENOUGH to know the deal and have done pretty well without many of the BS that goes around here.

Besides, I wasn't in EU trade and lost no money. I was just saying that 30 pips slippage, 30 pip widening is plain stealing even if it was a Friday NFP! If you lack to see this, than I suggest you go do an ego check.
  • #2,410
  • Oct 24, 2013 9:42am Oct 24, 2013 9:42am
Quoting Jack_Larkin
{quote} ... did you even look into this situation, or the broker, before joining in with your thoughts? (And you accused Primi of not adding anything to the conversation... ironic.) There was no 30 pip widening. Pepperstone is regulated by the ASIC, and they have a clean record with them. Pepper, and other brokers, didn't choose to gap the market during the NFP news release, they could only react to the gap in the market when it happened. They also didn't know which way the market would move after the release, so they have no idea who's going to...
Regulated by ASIC? So what? I have seen far worse things coming from 'reputable' ones in the UK and in the US.

Besides, anything coming from a commercial member might as well be dubious statements.

Yeah... and maybe fx brokers are going broke because they don't know what they are doing. Just like bambi doesn't know he is not getting killed.

Come on guys. Bucket shops are bucket shops.

They have no idea who is going to get stopped out? Give me a break! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe you should visit the back office of an FX operation and you might as well understand this business a little better.

Again, I am not here to teach anyone especially without being paid for my expertise. So if you want to believe in fairy tales, go ahead.

... or as SOSO mentioned, there is a cear hidden agenda here.

Outta here and not coming back to this 'bright' thread.
  • #2,411
  • Oct 24, 2013 12:35pm Oct 24, 2013 12:35pm
Quoting jupiter_peak
{quote} Outta here and not coming back to this 'bright' thread.
Don't go. Spread your wisdom. If there's indeed something wrong I'm sure many would appreciate knowing about it. But it takes more than just saying there's a hidden agenda and that 30 pip slippage and spread widening is stealing and that we're fools if we believe otherwise.

Why is it stealing? Is it stealing in each and every case or is it stealing in some cases only? What would acceptable slippage be if market moves more than 30 pips instantly? Who would get his fill? Everybody? Some? Just specially selected few? How does it really work?

When Jack (or some other people around here) explains things he goes to great lengths to do it so that people with less expertise than yourself 'get it'. Sometimes it even takes more than one post but that's OK. They have facts if needed to support their claims.

Then somebody pops in and says 'hey that's stealing, period!' in just about as many words and storms away again because somebody questions his reasoning (or lack of it really). Then how does that look? And not wanting to spread your knowledge because you're not getting payed for it - that's a pretty poor excuse. But hey, whatever cranks your tractor I guess. Goodby then.
  • #2,412
  • Edited 1:52pm Oct 24, 2013 1:39pm | Edited 1:52pm
Quoting soso
{quote} You guys keep coming up putting words in people mouths. No one said \"no slippage\". We said pepper slippage vs other brokers slippage. Clearly a hidden agenda thread. I'm outta here.
in the end, its still your word against theirs.
if you think have a solid case go to the ASIC, if they say that pepper is indeed guilty, put it in this thread, no one will argue with that.
i lose money for a living
  • #2,413
  • Oct 24, 2013 6:25pm Oct 24, 2013 6:25pm
There is a one simple difference between good and bad traders, which never changes ... losers are always blaming the brokers for their own bad trades or lack of discipline in monitoring the market conditions, where winners are constantly learning from earlier mistakes and are correcting / improving their skills in trading.
  • #2,414
  • Edited 1:51am Oct 25, 2013 1:10am | Edited 1:51am
Quoting jupiter_peak
Regulated by ASIC? So what? I have seen far worse things coming from 'reputable' ones in the UK and in the US.
You said "unregulated broker" and seemed like you didn't know the details regarding Pepperstone. I simply was letting you know that "unregulated" was incorrect in this case.

Quoting jupiter_peak
Besides, anything coming from a commercial member might as well be dubious statements.
Multiple other non-commercial members have refuted the argument that you and soso are making, but I'm glad you'll just turn to attacking my commercial status instead of backing up your opinion with facts, evidence, proof, practical knowledge, etc... I mean, clearly focusing on my commercial status is the most constructive thing to do. *rollseyes*

Quoting jupiter_peak
They have no idea who is going to get stopped out? Give me a break! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe you should visit the back office of an FX operation and you might as well understand this business a little better.
In context, I said: "They also didn't know which way the market would move after the [news] release, so they have no idea who's going to get stopped out and who's going to make money."

So yes, they don't know who will be stopped out thanks to news moving the market. To know that, they'd have to know how the market will react to the news and what direction it will go...

If you're suggesting they do, in fact, know where the market will go after news comes out--and thus which clients might get run over in the process--then why would they even be in the brokering business in the first place when they can just trade the news with 100% accuracy and make billions upon billions of dollars? Oh, right, because they have no clue where the market will move until the news is out, the market is moving, and orders are being triggered.
FXGears.com
  • #2,415
  • Oct 25, 2013 2:01am Oct 25, 2013 2:01am
Quoting Primi
{quote} When Jack (or some other people around here) explains things he goes to great lengths to do it so that people with less expertise than yourself 'get it'. Sometimes it even takes more than one post but that's OK. They have facts if needed to support their claims.
You as well. Even when people don't agree with you, I've seen you post your observations, research, and facts collected to back up your argument.

Heck, even when you and I don't agree on a given subject, at least I feel like a constructive conversation is left behind that others could benefit from. That's the whole point of a forum after all.
FXGears.com
  • #2,416
  • Oct 25, 2013 3:06am Oct 25, 2013 3:06am
If you consider this matter from a 'psychological' point of view, it would be enormously difficult for anyone to openly admit on one of the biggest public forums such as this one that they have acted too hastily on incorrect conclusions.

This kind of behavior is often observed by people who experience emotional upset and try to suppress the emotional pain with verbalizing their heart ache and shifting the focus on something on the outside by blaming a person or an event outside of them.

I can very well understand what is going on for Soso and love.l0ve and do have compassion. Please understand guys, you are not alone with this behavioral response. This is what we call 'righteousness' and no it is not a dirty word but a psychological reality that often and sadly not only causes large losses but also causes wars in this world.

We fondly call it the 'Nick Leeson' effect...

Even if they would see this matter for what it is it would take an enormous amount of self-confidence and humbleness to openly admit it on a public forum like this.

Tricky one this one..
  • #2,417
  • Oct 25, 2013 3:38am Oct 25, 2013 3:38am
Quoting DareXau
There is a one simple difference between good and bad traders, which never changes ... losers are always blaming the brokers for their own bad trades or lack of discipline in monitoring the market conditions, where winners are constantly learning from earlier mistakes and are correcting / improving their skills in trading.
This is so true. The guy who lost could have easily focused his energy on getting those 30 pips back instead of wasting it on complaining.
  • #2,418
  • Oct 25, 2013 3:38am Oct 25, 2013 3:38am
Quoting DareXau
There is a one simple difference between good and bad traders, which never changes ... losers are always blaming the brokers for their own bad trades or lack of discipline in monitoring the market conditions, where winners are constantly learning from earlier mistakes and are correcting / improving their skills in trading.
Of course this just shows how flawed your thought process is you know? By your logic I can't ever blame my broker otherwise I'm a loser trader. I hope you can see how stupid this is.

For the rest, I will explain my case again:

1. I have traded live with Oanda for years already.
2. No scalping at all, but my main beef with oanda was the big spread widening during news. I accept spread widening during news but looking at other brokers spreads during news times I saw that Oanda is one onf the worst.
3. Started to look for alternative brokers, after a while seeing the good reviews in this thread and demoing a bit myself funded pepper.
4. First month everything was as advertise, then I began to notice spread widening/slippage like I had with Oanda. Moving forward, spread widening got even worse than Oanda.

So, to conclude. If you read this thread from the beginning all you will see is how tight spreads are, how great execution is etc. No talking of huge slippage/spread widening during news time, at least I don't remember. And I did expect just that. What I got instead, was worse than Oanda. Who is one of the well known big spread wideners during news.
And please spare me about liq. issues because SPT/TTT/FCT/ZZZZ. It is not relevant. It is broker vs broker.

And regarding this thread, I stand by my conclusion. This thread dwells too much on the good sides of pepper. Why, I don't know.
Trading = a mirror to your human flaws. Fix them or be fixed.
  • #2,419
  • Oct 26, 2013 6:06pm Oct 26, 2013 6:06pm
Well, in other news:

Forex Magnates mentioned this once before in an article about 3-4 months ago, but their quarterly industry report confirmed that Pepper is now ranking number 1 in Australia for volume processed. They are also closing in on the global top 10 (ex-Japan) as they currently rank 11 according to Forex Magnates.

https://pepperstone.com/forex-news/pepperstone-ranked-1

I found this pretty interesting since they went from a start-up to 'top dog' down under in just a few years.. yet so many other brokers struggle to even get established. This also puts some of the growing pains we experienced in the past into perspective.
FXGears.com
  • #2,420
  • Oct 26, 2013 6:50pm Oct 26, 2013 6:50pm
I think they moved gomarkets accounts to pepper as it is same owner.

find it strange they are ahead of dukascopy which is clearly better broker with tons of security built in.

these guys only need 500k to operate. this is level of protection in AU.

you sure this table is reliable ?
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