After years in trading, do you still believe in get-rich-fast BS? | Page 3 | Forex Factory

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After years in trading, do you still believe in get-rich-fast BS?

  • #41
  • Oct 15, 2013 12:10pm Oct 15, 2013 12:10pm
Quoting TranceTrader
Grin I think you are confusing two very different things. Mark Douglas does not claim to be a professor educating you on the basic concepts of the subject for you to interpret and expand upon, quite the contrary. He specifically states that if you follow his methods, you will make all the money you want, he uses these exact words in his material. My contention with this is as follows, if he can make such a statement... then why has he not done so himself? Again it's worth noting that I do believe he is sincere in his attempt to make people better...

True in Art as well.
I am an artist a painter website
I had great teachers in Art about drawing,painting however my teachers works sucked.
I believe it is easier to say then do.Simple as that.
Best Artists could never be good teachers because what they do is intuitive and lifelong little things compounded together.I can teach perspective but can't teach splash paint in such a way as to show emotion in paint.Trading to me is an Art form.
The ones who persist will prevail.
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #42
  • Oct 15, 2013 12:48pm Oct 15, 2013 12:48pm
Quoting TranceTrader
Grin I think you are confusing two very different things. Mark Douglas does not claim to be a professor educating you on the basic concepts of the subject for you to interpret and expand upon, quite the contrary. He specifically states that if you follow his methods, you will make all the money you want, he uses these exact words in his material. My contention with this is as follows, if he can make such a statement... then why has he not done so himself? Again it's worth noting that I do believe he is sincere in his attempt to make people better...
May be he has no ability to execute his own strategies. I see your point of concern if this is the case. He tried and failed, but that still does not invalidate the approaches he teaches. Other people apparently succeeded. The following he enjoys likely has some truth to it.

May be he has chosen to be an educator rather than a trader. He is already making comfortable living by doing what he enjoys. What is wrong with that? If you make all you really strive for, why would you bother with something else?

Money is not the only factor going into what people choose to be doing. Not all traders strive for managing millions and billions. Many are likely happy to make comfortable living. Not every investor strives to become a Warren Buffet no matter how appealing the image might be.

It all comes to personal preferences.
  • #43
  • Oct 15, 2013 12:50pm Oct 15, 2013 12:50pm
Quoting Davit
{quote} True in Art as well. I am an artist a painter website I had great teachers in Art about drawing,painting however my teachers works sucked. I believe it is easier to say then do.Simple as that. Best Artists could never be good teachers because what they do is intuitive and lifelong little things compounded together.I can teach perspective but can't teach splash paint in such a way as to show emotion in paint.Trading to me is an Art form. The ones who persist will prevail.

Nice works Davit!
  • #44
  • Edited Oct 16, 2013 5:16am Oct 15, 2013 1:42pm | Edited Oct 16, 2013 5:16am
Quoting grin
{quote} May be he has no ability to execute his own strategies. I see your point of concern if this is the case. He tried and failed, but that still does not invalidate the approaches he teaches. Other people apparently succeeded. The following he enjoys likely has some truth to it. May be he has chosen to be an educator rather than a trader. He is already making comfortable living by doing what he enjoys. What is wrong with that? If you make all you really strive for, why would you bother with something else? Money is not the only factor going...
Your point is valid and yes it is a possibility that he doesn't want to use his own method to become inordinately wealthy as surprising as that sounds (there is no evidence to suggest he could do this if he wanted). However, I do think my original point is also valid and it is that, even with the highest level of emotional control and execution efficiency... you can't turn a losing edge into a winning one.
  • #45
  • Oct 15, 2013 2:41pm Oct 15, 2013 2:41pm
Trading can be very simple if you let it be. Contrary to popular belief, it's a combination of "you" and "the market" who decide when you win and you lose.

1st step would be to find out how the market works on a structural level and what the major purpose of the market is.
2nd step would be to find out who are the major users of market and what they consider important information to base their trade ideas from.
3rd step would be to ??????
4th step would be to withdraw your winnings.

For me ?????? means to make an attempt to figure out which currencies are hot and trade them against those that are lukewarm and lower using a simple entry that i've noticed and have confidence with. I used to try to catch falling knives but it looks like i've let my cat give me a hand massage everyday. Looking at my hand now, i wonder just how it was that i could stand such pain.

Some people are lion tamers, I prefer to tame a horse, seems easier for me and goes right along with my expectations. To each his own.

Most importantly, know that anything is possible. The numbers don't lie. I've since forgotten where i've read it, a broker did an analysis of traders accounts and found that majority of the retail trading accounts generally got the direction correct but when it came time to close the trade they would close at a negative. It may have been Oanda but don't quote me on this.

Long story short. Know what you're trading, conquer some demons, know who's trading it and how they trade it, conquer some more demons, take some time to make some nonbiased observations about what you see in the market in an attempt to create a simple (or not) trading plan that resonates with you, conquer some of the more resilliant demons, and badda bing badda boom, rags to riches in 20 trades or less or whatever your target is all the while conquering or understanding your biggest demons.
  • #46
  • Oct 15, 2013 5:01pm Oct 15, 2013 5:01pm
Quoting TranceTrader
even with the highest level of emotional control and execution efficiency... you can't turn a losing edge into a winning one.
True. Proper tools are important. Discipline can help with consistency, but the system must be at least net positive in perfect execution conditions. It is all about pursuing the perfection.
  • #47
  • Oct 15, 2013 5:08pm Oct 15, 2013 5:08pm
Quoting Good Lookin
a broker did an analysis of traders accounts and found that majority of the retail trading accounts generally got the direction correct but when it came time to close the trade they would close at a negative.
It is somewhat vague. What is the correct direction? Position going net positive by 1 pip? 5? 20? 100?
  • #48
  • Oct 15, 2013 5:52pm Oct 15, 2013 5:52pm
Have to agree with Trance - though Douglas's writings may well have merit, you are still "listening" to someone who was not a successful trader tell you about psychological traits (or whatever) you need to develop to be successful. But what qualifies him to make those statements? The only way it can be likened to a professor teaching a class is if the "professor" failed in his studies, yet is teaching his students chemistry "as he sees it". In that case, students should wonder whether there is merit to what he is teaching them, and likewise with Douglas. As I said, I'm not knocking what he's written (I have the book but can't remember what it said), it may well be wonderful market wisdom...
  • #49
  • Oct 15, 2013 7:29pm Oct 15, 2013 7:29pm
Quoting grin
{quote} It is somewhat vague. What is the correct direction? Position going net positive by 1 pip? 5? 20? 100?
I can't find the article, but i remember that on average the positions were in the green longer than they were in the red and the green was at least 40% the size of the loss.
  • #50
  • Oct 15, 2013 8:26pm Oct 15, 2013 8:26pm
For me there's no getting rich fast through trading. All one can do is to put in the work (leaving as little as possible to luck), still hope for a little luck, and give the account time to grow.
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #51
  • Oct 15, 2013 11:11pm Oct 15, 2013 11:11pm
show me the money...!

1 trade for 100% return is like gambling yet ridiculous.
Revenge of Scalper
  • #52
  • Oct 15, 2013 11:34pm Oct 15, 2013 11:34pm
. First I must really need to apprise you for getting this thought which will be in every trader but no one will actually find it out. Yes, this is the question or doubt even in common man. What you said is right, with sound knowledge on markets and trading with complete dedication of time put upon this, it would easily take 5-10 years to become rich. We often see Warren Buffet opening up himself about his state of investment at the age of 12 but it is now from the last ten or so years seen on the list of top billionaires in America. This is what happens. It is just my opinion and if I negate someone, it's no offense.
  • #53
  • Oct 16, 2013 2:02am Oct 16, 2013 2:02am
talking about authors of books as traders - If somebody earns good on markets - doesn't need to write books or sell web seminars for living. I am a bit same, I can give good advices for others, but cannot stick to discipline myself

I think it's a bit similar with bloogers who tell people how to live cheap, how to find a job of your dreams etc - they live of the blog so it's easy for them to say and advice others
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #54
  • Oct 16, 2013 6:29am Oct 16, 2013 6:29am
Hm, I wonder who defined FX trading as a lottery enterprise. Besides - there is nothing good to get rich quickly. One just can't adjust to the wealth that fast. I personally prefer to get rich slowly but surely in 15-20 yrs. People that decide to turn to Forex in "all in one" fashion shoul ask themselves what is their plan next 15 yrs. And 3 yrs are hardly enough to acquire serious skills in a profession.
  • #55
  • Oct 16, 2013 7:18am Oct 16, 2013 7:18am
Actually, I have to correct myself in one thing: if you are just disciplined (and have zero technique or skill), you have a much bigger chance than getting rich in 15 trades than winning the lottery. How did I come up with that? Simples. Use the following trading strategy:
1) Toss a coin, heads you buy at 100:1 leverage, tail you sell at 100:1 leverage.
2) Hold until the underlying price moves 1% in your favour, giving you an 100% gain.
3) Come back to 1) and repeat it 14 times more (or stop it if you have blown out your account).

Follow this trading strategy with a starting capital of $5,000 and you have a 1 in 32768 chance of ending up with $163,840,000 after just 15 trades. (If you don't believe, do the maths!)

Given that we certainly have a lot more than 32768 disciplined people trying to make money trading at a high leverage we will certainly find somebody that got very very rich and very very fast and we'll say this guy was the "star trader" - but he was just a lucky disciplined fella.
  • #56
  • Oct 16, 2013 10:47pm Oct 16, 2013 10:47pm
Quoting Eur Usd
talking about authors of books as traders - If somebody earns good on markets - doesn't need to write books or sell web seminars for living. I am a bit same, I can give good advices for others, but cannot stick to discipline myself I think it's a bit similar with bloogers who tell people how to live cheap, how to find a job of your dreams etc - they live of the blog so it's easy for them to say and advice others
Then many students have to be thankful those losers exist. Otherwise, how would the students learned and succeeded if all traders were so successful and having no need to write and teach?
  • #57
  • Oct 16, 2013 11:06pm Oct 16, 2013 11:06pm
Quoting Eur Usd
{quote} yes I've read it, I kept following it on the beginning and still don't believe it
Welcome to the club - they almost kicked me out of the that very thread because of my skepticism. I noticed everyone in that thread was using "high-sounded" advices and phrases acting like already-millionaires in FX, and yet some guys "were going to test the system next month when they get 50$ available" - how can a trader make himself so confident when 50 bucks are some struggle to him- sounds like a little not serious right?
  • #58
  • Oct 16, 2013 11:13pm Oct 16, 2013 11:13pm
Quoting Eur Usd
{quote} I am not giving up, but realised that I won't get rich in 2 years as I thought before. I keep practising till I get there. I am 34 now, I'll be happy if I get financially independent around 50 - when I'll be able to be mortgage free and part time job will be all I need
Since you are the same age as me - here is an idea - get a good payed job or start one or several small business ventures and use wisely FX as personal/company income profit amplifier. That will reduce the stress, and hey - everything as annual % above 5% (what a bank will give max) is all yours and increases your wealth. So in 10-15 yrs things might be quite different for you.

FX is not a dream - FX is a tool...remember this and you will reduce the emotions.
  • #59
  • Oct 19, 2013 6:49am Oct 19, 2013 6:49am
In the sphere of human possibilities, anything is possible, even getting rich quickly from Forex, A local guy achieved USD2500 to USD1M in 2 year of going live.
I think it all depends on your definition of quickly, the surest thing -as sure as daylight is consistent net winnings, when you get there, there's no holding you back, what can you take from the markets consistently, daily, weekly monthly? work it out then compound. If you are not net profitable daily you might be weekly, or monthly, there is no BS in trading you have to have something to show for your efforts progressively, if you can't show then don't try to fix the markets you need to fix yourself.

700% returns in weeks, you need to xray what was I doing right, what did I do wrong to crash down? Obviously no SL, no risk management. Remove the dross from the silver. You know what everything is repeatable in the markets, Jesse Livermore did, then crashed cos he did not fix himself.

Quoting TranceTrader
{quote} Be careful with the message in this book, I've read it myself a few times over the years and also watched his workshop How To Think Like a Professional Trader (http://markdouglas.com/workshops.html) . (from Preface, Trading in the Zone) 1978, started trading, unsuccessful 1981, got a job as broker for Merrill at CBOT, "within 9 months, lost nearly everything I owned" 1982, started working on his first book "The Disciplined Trader..." 1983, left Merrill to start a consulting firm, "where I presently develop and conduct seminars...
Failure is a great teacher! Just ask Abe Linc, Thomas Edison and the Wright Brothers.
If you have chicken pox and a doctor were to give you, shot for your fever you would not ask "show me your Certificate and has this shot worked for you personally?"
The summary of "The Zone" is take a strategy, back-test it to show net positive results in the past, front-test it with at least 20 trades and if following the rules of the strategy produces net positive results, you can go ahead and use the strategy continuously, without second guessing and hesitating.
You have to start with a net winning strategy, test it then use it, the problem comes from expecting consecutive winnings.

I don't care if Douglas lost his shirt in the markets but his seemingly negative experiences has turned into a GOLD MINE then again does he need to show you what he is currently earning from his trading/investments for?
Let it turn and find your entry.
  • #60
  • Oct 19, 2013 6:55am Oct 19, 2013 6:55am
Quoting Robertk
I believe in a "get rich fast", despite having a small loss(no mentionable profit generations so far after 2.2 years of trading). Why? Because the endgame big dogs / champions think different. They share certain similar mindset/attitude with each-other. I am pretty sure you have heard of terms like asperger before. It often goes hand in hand with the urge to control(found in many other disorders as well). Controlling immediately translates to the urge of exploiting flaws when it comes to financial markets. Quants are an example here. Think about...
I don't understand are you saying the magnitude of retail traders success is limited by the domination and control of the big dogs? kindly give examples and further enlighten us.
Let it turn and find your entry.
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