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  • #21
  • Oct 9, 2013 9:47am Oct 9, 2013 9:47am
Quoting shrike
Oh, Russia. With Europe i meant EU, and i know its not possible in UK, Germany or Austria - and i doubt in most other EU countries too. Not entirely sure how many clients would want to send their money to Russia. I gave no legal advice. I reccomended to GET legal advice for people who would consider something like that, preferably from a professional with expertise in the field, and not Google. But by all means, if you think you are prepared, go ahead. I wish you the best of luck.
They send the money to a non EU broker, for example Hotforex is located in an island from Asia and doesn't have bad reputation at all.
Investors sign a power of attorney and the broker has risk disclaimers (past results doesn't guarantee future results) so it's pointless to try to sue the trader.
  • #22
  • Oct 9, 2013 10:00am Oct 9, 2013 10:00am
Quoting fido
If you want to manage money for smaller retail clients some sort of signal service is probably the best way to go. Otherwise it would be easier to have just a few wealthy ones. I don't really see have they can sue you if they sign a power of attorney.
What signal service do you know other than Zulutrade? The comissions are really low for signal providers.
  • #23
  • Oct 9, 2013 10:30am Oct 9, 2013 10:30am
Quoting str8
{quote} What signal service do you know other than Zulutrade? The comissions are really low for signal providers.
There is actually a number of different sites out there .. Collective2, liveforextrading, rapicapintro, ayondo + many brokers have some sort of signal selling service.
  • #24
  • Edited Oct 10, 2013 1:59am Oct 9, 2013 8:16pm | Edited Oct 10, 2013 1:59am
i don't know about other country , in Australia broker asked me ASIC license to setup PAMM facility linking my and my wife account , as per Australian LAW only licensed people can manage other account even if its family members
Mohan
  • #25
  • Oct 10, 2013 3:28am Oct 10, 2013 3:28am
A website won't help you much here and it's a drag on your time to maintain it. Twitter account and a Youtube account where you'd do weekly updates on the state of your account could give you quite some exposure on the other hand. Main question is though, are you a professional trader? Is this what you do for living and how good are you at it.
  • #26
  • Oct 10, 2013 5:02am Oct 10, 2013 5:02am
Quoting mohan76
i don't know about other country , in Australia broker asked me ASIC license to setup PAMM facility linking my and my wife account , as per Australian LAW only licensed people can manage other account even if its family members
Yes you're correct. Because it's a regulated Australian broker.
  • #27
  • Oct 10, 2013 7:16am Oct 10, 2013 7:16am
Quoting str8
{quote} Some brokers let you to run a PAMM fund without any license. Clients can't sue him because they don't even know his real name and even if they know the money manager has no responsability of losing investor's money, when investor accepts to deposit money he also accepts the risk of losing all his money. PAMM is no money management in the traditional sense, the broker still manages investor's money. If not, why are there brokers who don't ask the trader for a license? My broker, Hotforex doesn't ask for any license. If your country doesn't...
I do not agree here, i live in Belgium and i am working moths now on starting some kind of investment business in Forex.
The problem is i would need a license from FSMA to do this legal, if i do manage other people's money without their license the FSMA will sue me.
The fines are from 12k up to 100k euro, i do not want to take this risk.
There are brokers which asks no license, but almost every country requires one, so if anybody want to take this risk, it is up to them, but i would never do it.
I found another solution, trade copier, i will use ATC Brokers, so i am not managing other peoples money, i am just trading my own capital and people can follow my trades if they want to, they can even adjust max draw down and how much they are willing to risk on every trade.
All the decisions are made by the "investor" himself, all trough the trades are coming from me.
A little bit more work because performance fee is not calculated and payed automatically, but it is the only legal way for me to do this kind of business so i have no choice.
I can only say think twice before anybody start a investment business, there are more rules and legal issues then most people think.
If you want to do it, do it the legal way!
  • #28
  • Edited 10:04am Oct 10, 2013 8:20am | Edited 10:04am
Quoting Dkam
{quote} I do not agree here, i live in Belgium and i am working moths now on starting some kind of investment business in Forex. The problem is i would need a license from FSMA to do this legal, if i do manage other people's money without their license the FSMA will sue me. The fines are from 12k up to 100k euro, i do not want to take this risk. There are brokers which asks no license, but almost every country requires one, so if anybody want to take this risk, it is up to them, but i would never do it. I found another solution, trade copier, i...
Nobody is suggesting doing anything unethical or shady. We are trying to find a solution to our will. It is through my research and understanding that if someone participates in a PAMM account, you do NOT have direct access to their funds, thus no license is needed. You NEED a license ONLY if you are managing investor funds, AND you have direct access to those funds or you open an account with a broker located in a country that is heavily regulated like U.S. I'm not sure what type of forex business you looked into, but trading a PAMM fund account, with investor participation is NOT against the law. If it was then these licensed and regulated brokers would NOT be marketing and offering them. An investor participating in a PAMM fund opens an account in his name. There is not a pooling of funds rather a allocated profit and loss of each trade within the participants of the fund. Trader has NO access to customer funds. Allocated P&L is handled through the broker.
  • #29
  • Edited 8:48am Oct 10, 2013 8:38am | Edited 8:48am
Quoting Dkam
{quote} I do not agree here, i live in Belgium and i am working moths now on starting some kind of investment business in Forex. The problem is i would need a license from FSMA to do this legal, if i do manage other people's money without their license the FSMA will sue me. The fines are from 12k up to 100k euro, i do not want to take this risk. There are brokers which asks no license, but almost every country requires one, so if anybody want to take this risk, it is up to them, but i would never do it. I found another solution, trade copier, i...
In my country I don't need a license because PAMM isn't regulated, but brokers from regulated countries ask you to send them your license so it's impossible to be a PAMM manager at one of these brokers. Your only solution is brokers from other countries. I don't know how there is at other brokers but at my broker PAMM managers are anonymous so no one can sue you. And no one can know what you do on internet (unless your country is spying you). When you pay income taxes you can say the money are from your trading. (I don't encourage you to trade with PAMM if it's not allowed in your country in any way, just saying what would be possible if you really wanted to do this however it's always good to respect the laws).
  • #30
  • Oct 10, 2013 8:42am Oct 10, 2013 8:42am
Quoting MKFXTrader
{quote} Nobody is suggesting doing anything unethical or shady. We are trying to find a solution to our will. It is through my research and understanding that if someone participates in a PAMM account, you do NOT have direct access to their funds, thus no license is needed. You NEED a license ONLY if you are managing investor funds, AND you have direct access to those funds. I'm not sure what type of forex business you looked into, but trading a PAMM fund account, with investor participation is NOT against the law. If it was then these licensed...
How is the situation in your country? Is PAMM trading regulated?
  • #31
  • Oct 10, 2013 8:47am Oct 10, 2013 8:47am
What about FxOpen?

Strong.
  • #32
  • Oct 10, 2013 10:23am Oct 10, 2013 10:23am
Quoting MKFXTrader
{quote} Nobody is suggesting doing anything unethical or shady. We are trying to find a solution to our will. It is through my research and understanding that if someone participates in a PAMM account, you do NOT have direct access to their funds, thus no license is needed. You NEED a license ONLY if you are managing investor funds, AND you have direct access to those funds or you open an account with a broker located in a country that is heavily regulated like U.S. I'm not sure what type of forex business you looked into, but trading a PAMM fund...
Here in Belgium a PAMM is not legal, if you not believe me feel free to contact the FSMA/
I only say everybody should be careful, i do not know the rulls/laws in other country's i can only tell how it is going here in Belgium.
About licensed brokers, have a chat with Lmax or Dukascopy, tell all will tell you, if you live in Belgium you can not have a PAMM with them.
I am working on setting up a business a few months, with a lawyer, i know what is true and what is not, at least here in Belgium.
It is not as easy as people think it is.
Anyway, do not want to have a discussion about this, i just wanted to share my experience on this
  • #33
  • Oct 10, 2013 10:55am Oct 10, 2013 10:55am
Quoting Dkam
{quote} Here in Belgium a PAMM is not legal, if you not believe me feel free to contact the FSMA/ I only say everybody should be careful, i do not know the rulls/laws in other country's i can only tell how it is going here in Belgium. About licensed brokers, have a chat with Lmax or Dukascopy, tell all will tell you, if you live in Belgium you can not have a PAMM with them. I am working on setting up a business a few months, with a lawyer, i know what is true and what is not, at least here in Belgium. It is not as easy as people think it is. Anyway,...
Thanks for sharing info. Not doubting you. Wasn't sure what type of business you were trying to set up, nor am I familiar with what laws are in Belgium pertaining to PAMM account. GL
  • #34
  • Oct 10, 2013 11:05am Oct 10, 2013 11:05am
Quoting str8
{quote} How is the situation in your country? Is PAMM trading regulated?
From what I have been able to gather, some PAMM funds are only regulated based on where your participating clients are from. For example U.S, Germany(not 100% sure of this), Belgium(verified by Dkam) clients are not able to participate in an open PAMM account. Also sometimes matter where you have your PAMM account. Example is if your PAMM account is with an Aussie broker, you can't have Aussie clients unless you are licensed, and Aussie brokers don't accept U.S clients in general.

Not to say that if you have an investor that is aware of the law and risk associated with FX, he wouldn't find a way for you to do business with him if you are legit and have a proven system. Where there's a will, I'm sure there's a way. If your investor is savvy, he'll find a way for you to conduct business.
  • #35
  • Oct 10, 2013 11:39am Oct 10, 2013 11:39am
I run a fund with PellucidFX they are new and unregulated. I have done a bunch of withdraws and deposits with no issues. You can set up a PAMM account in about 5 minutes and since there is no regulation you have no worries. You set your own fees and minimum requirements.

It was founded by a guy from Canada and it's still small but growing.

ForexProdigy is my fund which is #1 in the ranking systems

I attached a screenshot of the fund rankings, people just review who they want and deposit, they have full control over the withdraws and deposits. I even get a 45 min warning of when a withdraw will happen so I can adjust my margin accordingly
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: asdfasf.png Size: 73 KB
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  • #36
  • Oct 10, 2013 1:12pm Oct 10, 2013 1:12pm
Quoting BobGnarly
I run a fund with PellucidFX they are new and unregulated. I have done a bunch of withdraws and deposits with no issues. You can set up a PAMM account in about 5 minutes and since there is no regulation you have no worries. You set your own fees and minimum requirements. It was founded by a guy from Canada and it's still small but growing.
I would have psychological problems sending any amount bigger than lunch money to an anonymous PO-box on an island called Anguilla.
  • #37
  • Oct 10, 2013 1:40pm Oct 10, 2013 1:40pm
Quoting shrike
{quote} I would have psychological problems sending any amount bigger than lunch money to an anonymous PO-box on an island called Anguilla.

Oh believe me I had my doubts, the guy seems genuine and wants the best for his clients which I respect. I opened a $200 account a few months back just to test it out and I had no problems receiving my profits. Since that time I opened a PAMM account and I trade the clients money, no real risk for me besides losing that #1 spot which I treasure greatly and work my ass off to stay there.

If you havent noticed all the brokers getting busted lately are all NFA or some other legality. Your money is held in a segregated account with caledonian bank, you even get a signed letter upon opening an account, from they're lawyer.

I only have good things to say and I can also trade metals which I always wanted to do but couldn't since I'm a U.S resident.
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  • #38
  • Oct 10, 2013 2:18pm Oct 10, 2013 2:18pm
Quoting BobGnarly
{quote} Oh believe me I had my doubts, the guy seems genuine and wants the best for his clients which I respect. I opened a $200 account a few months back just to test it out and I had no problems receiving my profits. Since that time I opened a PAMM account and I trade the clients money, no real risk for me besides losing that #1 spot which I treasure greatly and work my ass off to stay there. If you havent noticed all the brokers getting busted lately are all NFA or some other legality. Your money is held in a segregated account with caledonian...
You had this account for one and a half months now?
  • #39
  • Oct 25, 2015 5:56am Oct 25, 2015 5:56am
Setup LTD in Cyprus? Regulators there are OK with you running PAMM accounts.
Cut short your losses. Let your profits run on. David Ricardo (1772-1823)
  • #40
  • Dec 15, 2015 9:15am Dec 15, 2015 9:15am
This is a very interesting debate, thank you for all the contributions.
I am also looking into the legal implications. To be a fund manager in my country I need to register as a financial services provider, have 3 years experience, relevant qualification, do examinations etc... So as MKFX mentions can I open an MAM account in AU for instance then I can accept clients from anywhere but AU or is this still not a good idea? Does one need to be regulated to be a PAMM manager? According to my local regulations one needs to be regulated even to offer advice! How is signal trading any different, you are still acting as an intermediary?
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