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Rags to Riches in 10 or 20 Trades - Simplicity at its finest

  • #481
  • Sep 23, 2013 3:45am Sep 23, 2013 3:45am
Quoting Razor_trader
Regardless of how you look at it you are risking 50% of your account on an unknown outcome. It is unknown because regardless of what your approach is there is no certain outcome,
The outcome of each and every trade is unknown, regardless of the percentage of the account risked....so by your definition, ALL trading must be gambling.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #482
  • Sep 23, 2013 3:48am Sep 23, 2013 3:48am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} The outcome of each and every trade is unknown, regardless of the percentage of the account risked....so by your definition, ALL trading must be gambling.
When all conditions are met - Enter trade - sit back and FRET !!!
  • #483
  • Sep 23, 2013 3:50am Sep 23, 2013 3:50am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} The outcome of each and every trade is unknown, regardless of the percentage of the account risked....so by your definition, ALL trading must be gambling.
This is exactly what I was going to answer ...
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #484
  • Sep 23, 2013 10:01am Sep 23, 2013 10:01am
Quoting workethic101
While we are living in a fantasy land why aim so low. I think you are trying to discribe to the good people what Einstein described as the 8th wonder of the world. In order to do this you may want to pull head out of ass first and not base your example on a 50% capital risk with a 100% success rate. Fkn schmuk. You know what a schmuk is. It is yiddish for camels schlong. Which for the sake of trading is as about as useful for trading as your example. ha! lets try for arguments sake starting with 50 k. Risking 5% per trade for 5% gain. You will need...
What's goin' down yo!

We all know its high risk for high gains, why do once every few days someone comes along to say it? Correct, it may not happen, but no one is asking you to drop all your life savings into doing this, just $50 maybe once a month, or if not that, then $25 ?
What if you do get 8, 9 10 net winners? I don't think you'd be so negative.

Why do people play lottery which has even lower chance of winning? Yes its gambling way of trading but its just on the side bit of fun. Like i said, professional gamblers make do with roulette and blackjack etc and still make more than most forex traders. And this is without SL and TP. Where in a casino will they say, "Would sir like to limit loses with SL?" Or "Would sir like to let profits run on and on by increasing TP?"
  • #485
  • Sep 23, 2013 11:19am Sep 23, 2013 11:19am
So risking 0.5% on a $5,000 account is not gambling, but risking 50% on a $50 account is? What happens if I have $100,000 in my bank account (never deposited with the broker), does that factor into the equation?
  • #486
  • Sep 23, 2013 7:31pm Sep 23, 2013 7:31pm
Quoting spyderman
{quote} True dat... Exits are still my achilles heel. I just can't stop myself from wanting to stretch those winners. If my projected TP is 1:2 then when it gets to 1:1.9, why not tighten the stop and see if it will roll on. I need to do a back test of all trades to see which we net more pips. A hard TP or a trailing...
exactly!

trying to be perfect will cause failure in this business


if market comes within 80-90% of my target, i will definitely tighten up stops and maybe even look to exit early if price action warrants
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #487
  • Edited 7:58pm Sep 23, 2013 7:39pm | Edited 7:58pm
Quoting workethic101
While we are living in a fantasy land why aim so low. I think you are trying to discribe to the good people what Einstein described as the 8th wonder of the world. In order to do this you may want to pull head out of ass first and not base your example on a 50% capital risk with a 100% success rate. Fkn schmuk. You know what a schmuk is. It is yiddish for camels schlong. Which for the sake of trading is as about as useful for trading as your example. ha! lets try for arguments sake starting with 50 k. Risking 5% per trade for 5% gain. You will need...

why do we need 100% success rate?

please, enlighten me.

read the thread again before posting please, thanks.


if there is something you do not understand, please ask a question about it, don't just make assumptions based on your misunderstandings
id be glad to help answer any questions



why would i ever start with $50k and risk 50% ? thats just nuts
read the thread again

also, dont ya think that people who are starting from "rags", likely don't have $50k to start with?

i started my Forex career with $5k, im over $50k in 2 years (traded equities and metals ONLY for 1 year before that).... thats SHIT money, but fantastic return %. i know how to take it slow and make money.

but that doesn't mean i cant also take a less sustainable approach,
risking 100% of profits (50% of the account at any given time) from an initial $25 or $50 stop loss


regards
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #488
  • Sep 23, 2013 7:40pm Sep 23, 2013 7:40pm
I'm going to RETYPE and ADD MORE DETAILED INFO to the original post. Far too many people are misunderstanding.
That means its likely my fault, not theirs.



I'll have a step 1), step 2), etc..
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #489
  • Sep 23, 2013 7:47pm Sep 23, 2013 7:47pm
Quoting Rag2RichesFX
That means its likely my fault, not theirs.
Absolutely not your fault if some here don't read the whole thread where they should have found all they need to understand correctly what we are doing here ...
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #490
  • Sep 23, 2013 7:51pm Sep 23, 2013 7:51pm
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} Absolutely not your fault if some here don't read the whole thread where they should have found all they need to understand correctly what we are doing here ...
thats true its not entirely me

but i did explain it a somewhat brief way, on the original post
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #491
  • Edited 8:04pm Sep 23, 2013 7:51pm | Edited 8:04pm
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} Absolutely not your fault if some here don't read the whole thread where they should have found all they need to understand correctly what we are doing here ...
LOL....now it is you who wrote what I was about to!!

I would go a little further though...R2RFX....if you have to explain things in kiddie language so that some people might ('might') understand, then I venture to guess that they will never make it on their own. I've found that spoon feeding people doesn't work....you have explained everything well...several times. If people can't/won't read the thread, then they have no chance as traders......imo
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #492
  • Sep 23, 2013 7:57pm Sep 23, 2013 7:57pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
@ Rags it isn't that the lot of folks just doesn't understand the approach

it's that some just don't believe they can do this once out of 10 or 20 tries...

$10 times $50 = $500.... 20 times $500 = $1000... the confidence inside they're

own ability and method won't allow them to be successful using this money

management technique.... In other words they will successively blow 10 to 20

accounts straight with out getting it correct....or at least that's how they feel....

To say an entry setup with past historical strike rate of 60, 70, 80 percent etc..

is a gamble is an misunderstanding,for I thought that was considered investing...

For nothing is 100 percent guaranteed but THE overall probability that you yourself

create and increase only with due diligence and know how about said asset that's being

considered as an investment..........
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #493
  • Sep 23, 2013 8:06pm Sep 23, 2013 8:06pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} LOL....now it is you who wrote what I was about to!!
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #494
  • Sep 23, 2013 8:07pm Sep 23, 2013 8:07pm
Quoting realjumper
I've found that spoon feeding people doesn't work....you have explained everything well...several times. If people can't/won't read the thread, then they have no chance as traders......imo
Agree 100%.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #495
  • Sep 23, 2013 8:08pm Sep 23, 2013 8:08pm
Quoting Hatzerim
Hi All, Like someone said before, I think that SL and TP must be dynamic. By that I mean that when you enter the trade you can start with a 10SL/20TPpip. But when the market moves in our way, SL must move in the same way, too. It reduces risk a lot and can even save you from a loss. On the other hand, TP must also by dynamic. One should look at price action and move TP further if it has that momentum. To achive this goal (I put it in the 100k level) you must be at the trading station all day to find the right entries. Or, you can enter a position,...


i very much like your idea of a dynamic tp and stop loss.
this will knock you out of possible good trades if its too choppy before it breaks out however

but on the plus side, if 50 pips is 100% gain, but we let our winners run to say 100 pips, then we will sometimes have 300% gains,
perhaps making up for the times that noise knocked us out of trades that would have been winners.

but at the same time causes the losers to be very small, much lower than 50%. so there is a lot of benefit to dynamic sl and tp, if you are advanced enough of a trader to handle it.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #496
  • Sep 23, 2013 8:17pm Sep 23, 2013 8:17pm
1R trailing stop:

1R --> move SL to BE
2R --> move SL to 1R
3R --> move SL to 2R
and so on ... if the trend permit.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #497
  • Sep 23, 2013 8:26pm Sep 23, 2013 8:26pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
the NZD/CAD currency pair is the said asset as an investment inside this case scenario.....

Sell trade 30.00 lots right now at 30 plus pips for $6,239.00.....

I took this high risk but for enormously higher reward DEMO trade based on a great setup

that seems to come only once in a lifetime (more like once a week ) .... the precise ones we aim too look for in

these occasions ... a bearish dragon formed along with a bearish 5-0 mind you this happened right at

friday's tpo and today's end of day vpoc.... also (it does get better!) it's a supply and demand zone

where price seemed to float for a while before making a late double top pattern around a strong .86100 round number!!..

So counting 7 great entry conditions that all lined up at one time!! .... It's not hard to see why I had the courage to risk

more to gain greater profits.. when once in a lifetime trades present itself.... don't hesitate...just pull the trigger...cause

the odds, which is the numbers of the probability that you have increased, in being so selective is with you , in risking to trade this way....

And Since all trading can be considered discretionary regardless of how mechanical the system, it will surely take confidence in one own skin and

with your method and entry to trade this way with success because there is no way if you don't know what you are looking for and

doing 100 percent then you will fail over and over from trepidation and nervousness...
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One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #498
  • Edited 3:32am Sep 24, 2013 2:50am | Edited 3:32am
Quoting Rag2RichesFX
{quote} i very much like your idea of a dynamic tp and stop loss. this will knock you out of possible good trades if its too choppy before it breaks out however but on the plus side, if 50 pips is 100% gain, but we let our winners run to say 100 pips, then we will sometimes have 300% gains, perhaps making up for the times that noise knocked us out of trades that would have been winners. but at the same time causes the losers to be very small, much lower than 50%. so there is a lot of benefit to dynamic sl and tp, if you are advanced enough...
On the other hand one can allways widen the SL and keep the TP, following a trend....
If we are serious about growing our chances or probabilities of having the maximum TPs hited, we must consider having an inverse proportion. That means bigger SL than TP. Allways on a trend, of course.
But this is outside your initial plan...(1st post)
Best Regards!
  • #499
  • Edited 3:29am Sep 24, 2013 2:51am | Edited 3:29am
Quoting FerruFx
1R trailing stop: 1R --> move SL to BE 2R --> move SL to 1R 3R --> move SL to 2R and so on ... if the trend permit.

A very good way to make it, if one is to follow the dynamic SL/TP.
Best Regards!
  • #500
  • Sep 24, 2013 4:08am Sep 24, 2013 4:08am
Hi Rag2RichesFX,

why don't you put this idea into practice and keep us updated about the results? Everything else is theory...

Wishing you success!
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