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C-12's Supply, Demand and PA thread

  • #2,741
  • Sep 10, 2013 11:34am Sep 10, 2013 11:34am
Quoting TraderinSD
{quote} No worries....Just the learning curve we all face in this journey. Stay focused and positive. Keep an exhaustive trade journal on every trade.. What you see, what you think, what you feel. This will help you see the flaws (we all have them) from an unemotional 3'd party perspective. You will see the patterns of when and why you make a good trade or trading decision or, the when and why you made a bad trade or trading decision. We all operate differently, view the market differently. Trading methods can be the same yet slightly different...

Yes perhaps as well as a few genuine concerns, a little frustration has bubbled over. Thank you very much for your understanding words and encouragement!

Best wishes
  • #2,742
  • Sep 10, 2013 6:45pm Sep 10, 2013 6:45pm
Quoting 4Xfactor
{quote} Out of curiosity, why do you need to trade 30-40 instruments at a time?
Oh it doesn't necessarily need to be 30-40 instruments at a time, but since many of us are trading the higher timeframes such as H4 for swing setups, watching multiple pairs is quite common. Like if EU is stuck in a range for the day, some other pairs could offer nice trend continuation entries, and other might setup for a nice trend change where we want to participate...

With more pairs simply the pip counter can be increased... but this is of course only 1 way to trade.

Some just scalp one instrument their whole life and are profitable... so it's up to everyone
  • #2,743
  • Sep 11, 2013 4:49am Sep 11, 2013 4:49am
Quoting Infest
{quote} Oh it doesn't necessarily need to be 30-40 instruments at a time, but since many of us are trading the higher timeframes such as H4 for swing setups, watching multiple pairs is quite common. Like if EU is stuck in a range for the day, some other pairs could offer nice trend continuation entries, and other might setup for a nice trend change where we want to participate... With more pairs simply the pip counter can be increased... but this is of course only 1 way to trade. Some just scalp one instrument their whole life and are profitable......

So basically you are checking these instruments on every 4 hour candle, which I suppose is manageable.
  • #2,744
  • Sep 11, 2013 4:57am Sep 11, 2013 4:57am
Quoting 4Xfactor
{quote} So basically you are checking these instruments on every 4 hour candle, which I suppose is manageable.
For swing trading, that itself could be enough, correct.
  • #2,745
  • Sep 11, 2013 6:24am Sep 11, 2013 6:24am
Quoting Infest
{quote} For swing trading, that itself could be enough, correct.
Ok thanks.
  • #2,746
  • Sep 11, 2013 4:08pm Sep 11, 2013 4:08pm
NU, again with the trend... since all H4 was cleared, but now deep in daily/H4... so i'll watch closely and trail

http://i.imgur.com/FIWaxqy.png
  • #2,747
  • Sep 11, 2013 11:29pm Sep 11, 2013 11:29pm
NU swing
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #2,748
  • Sep 12, 2013 1:34am Sep 12, 2013 1:34am
All closed on NU

http://i.imgur.com/ybJJWld.png

AUDCHF swing partial

http://i.imgur.com/EI5dmzu.png

UJ trend continuation sold after fresh bear engulf

http://i.imgur.com/OV1YHbm.png
  • #2,749
  • Sep 12, 2013 1:29pm Sep 12, 2013 1:29pm
Nice Closing Infest!
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Price Is The Best Indicator Itself.
  • #2,750
  • Sep 12, 2013 7:51pm Sep 12, 2013 7:51pm
Quoting Infest
NU, again with the trend... since all H4 was cleared, but now deep in daily/H4... so i'll watch closely and trail {image}

The beauty of trading the SD Method is that one can trade both Trending and Ranging markets. I do not know of any other method that can trade these two PA's as effectively. There might be .. I just have not seen up to this point.

Regarding trend PA. Some trends will retrace deep making in very obvious where to get in on Supply or Demand. More often, it is not. This is where using multiple TF to better define Supply Demand Levels can help. Defining a trend on the 4HR you may need to step down to a 1hr, 2hr or 30M to see the level they may give you the most opportunity. Confindence can be high if the 4HR is in a strong trend.. Strong trends tend no to retrace a deep hence to the samller TF to find the Supply Demand Level.

For me it, looking at multiple TF really helps define what is actually happening. IMHO SM's trade in all TF's ( why wouldn't they? ) They are not going to put their eggs all in one basket. This presents opportunity to play alongside. The SM's are defining this somewhere. We just need to look a bit deeper.

just a point of view

TSD
  • #2,751
  • Sep 13, 2013 1:25am Sep 13, 2013 1:25am
Hey TraderinSD,

I agree with you. But still, the hardest task is to identify the trend correctly and work with the correct timeframe, not getting thrown off e.g on a corrective phase on a M30 while H4 is telling me up yes, but with a bit of retrace. So on the long-term, I would have been correct, but based on a smaller entry on M30 I might get stopped out.

These NU add-ons were analysis on H4. We broke all H4 supply levels until 8110-8150 and it still had some 50-100 pips to go. In order to get a better price, I went into M30 timeframe due to the fast-pacing market of NU so I can get precise entries.
  • #2,752
  • Sep 13, 2013 4:52am Sep 13, 2013 4:52am
Looking Good!
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Price Is The Best Indicator Itself.
  • #2,753
  • Sep 14, 2013 1:13am Sep 14, 2013 1:13am
Taken my profit.
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Price Is The Best Indicator Itself.
  • #2,754
  • Sep 14, 2013 5:36am Sep 14, 2013 5:36am
Quoting neil324
Maybe he is taking a step back from forums as some traders do find them a distraction. He did say in his last update that he had changed his style of trading. This does take lots of concentration. Also C-12 has always been honest about his win ratio as far as I can remember. But as seems to be the norm he didn't post he losing trades. In regards it being easy. It's without doubt the most difficult journey anyone will most likely take.
Yes I have taken a breather from the forums as we all know, trading to make a living is probably the hardest task you can accomplish.

What I realised very quickly was my previous gun slinging style of taking 100+ trades per day just doesn't cut it. Sure, I would have 3 or even 4 fantastic days but it's pointless if my good work is unwound by a poor session caused by lost discipline.

Trading full time is all about reliable and steady consistency and nothing else.

The last few weeks I've been forced to re-evaluate my style and be far more patient, waiting for setups to form and sitting on my hands much more. There are still times when I can get on the M1 and blast out a few pips but mostly when the market is quiet. For other times it's much better to scalp of a M15 or M30 chart by waiting for levels, PA and momentum rather than diving in taking touch trades.

As for anyone questioning and knocking AG then that is ridiculous. Ken has been running a Skype group for months now and has only every given his all without expecting anything in return apart from being commited. Kev (Infest) is there as well and look at the progress!
  • #2,755
  • Sep 14, 2013 5:48am Sep 14, 2013 5:48am
Quoting 4Xfactor
{quote} Yes perhaps as well as a few genuine concerns, a little frustration has bubbled over. Thank you very much for your understanding words and encouragement! Best wishes
I would say it's best not to concern with others at all and purely focus on what works for you. Don't worry about anyone on here or AG about their performance since it isn't going to help you.

We know S&D trading works but the problem is always what is inside ourselves. It needs to be matched up with patience, discipline, letting winners run and not adding to losers. Also knowing when to bank profits or get the position to break even. You have to work on what's inside, being comfortable and relaxed, knowing when not to get caught up in pointless low liquidity periods that grind your account down.

There are so many variables you have to master and nobody can teach you this. You have to study and practice for tens of thousands of hours, reach these conclusions yourself and build a rock solid plan around it.

Have good read over this article which I still feel is the best trading article every written.

http://www.acegazette.com/en/trading...ail-part1.html
  • #2,756
  • Sep 14, 2013 6:54am Sep 14, 2013 6:54am
Quote
I would say it's best not to concern with others at all and purely focus on what works for you. Don't worry about anyone on here or AG about their performance since it isn't going to help you.

Well said! I hope you exceed all the goals that you have dreamed or set for yourself and then a few more you never even imaged. But you do not need explain yourself to anyone.

My goodness lets be thankful for the free help and openness you have shown in the thread and if anything we all should be rooting for you to do well and then glean some inspiration and motivation from your hard earned success. But at the end of it all when someday/year/decade in the future this thread will for any number of reasons end we who have read it will need to look at ourselves and how we have progressed and not you C-12, Ken at ACE (apart for being grateful for the help) or anyone else.
  • #2,757
  • Sep 14, 2013 12:29pm Sep 14, 2013 12:29pm
Quoting C-12
{quote} I would say it's best not to concern with others at all and purely focus on what works for you. Don't worry about anyone on here or AG about their performance since it isn't going to help you. We know S&D trading works but the problem is always what is inside ourselves. It needs to be matched up with patience, discipline, letting winners run and not adding to losers. Also knowing when to bank profits or get the position to break even. You have to work on what's inside, being comfortable and relaxed, knowing when not to get caught up in pointless...
C-12,

Thanks very much for your feedback and advice. To repeat I have nothing personal against AG (or its sister organisation RTM). I just wondered if anyone had managed to translate the demo magic into reality. You may say forget about the performance of others, but it is hard to forget this when the marketing strategy of AG, and others, is to continually promote demo accounts which have been tripled or quadrupled, asking the question "Is that really possible?" This strategy may be viewed as inspirational, but if there is little or no evidence that people go onto bigger and better things through involvement in such processes, it may also be a case of giving false hope.

As an outsider it is impossible to tell.

Anyway, once again, best wishes.
  • #2,758
  • Sep 14, 2013 4:41pm Sep 14, 2013 4:41pm
Quoting Infest
Hey TraderinSD, I agree with you. But still, the hardest task is to identify the trend correctly and work with the correct timeframe, not getting thrown off e.g on a corrective phase on a M30 while H4 is telling me up yes, but with a bit of retrace. So on the long-term, I would have been correct, but based on a smaller entry on M30 I might get stopped out. These NU add-ons were analysis on H4. We broke all H4 supply levels until 8110-8150 and it still had some 50-100 pips to go. In order to get a better price, I went into M30 timeframe due to the...

Ok.. Lets simplify a bit..This is what I call a the Pattern within the Pattern. You can go back and look at a lot of my trades and see this set ups.

Let take a TF ... Lets say 4 HR...4HR is a down trend. How do we know? Lower highs, lower lows.. Very clear.

Next were is price in relation to the basic pattern we look for .. Basic pattern in a down trend.. Trading with the trend = Drop-Base-Rise.

Is price trading inside the Base?

Is price trading inside the Rise?

Lets say price is trading inside the Rise on the 4HR..If you look at where price ( IMHO) is mostly likely to go ?? I see price trading back into the Supply Level created by the 4HR TF.. Yes the trade would be consider a CT by traditional standards. But we this over and over and over, again and again... Price tends to return to these levels. Especially if you see a series of HL's creeping up inside the BASE. Price ( IMHO ) is setting up for a move back into the Supply Level.

we step down in TF looking a multiple TF to find the most OBVIOUS Demand Level as we are wanting get long INTO the Supply Level.

Look at the Base.. see the HL's.. See price creeping up to the top of the Base RANGE.. ( essentially ) You define Range or Ranges inside the BASE..The point you are looking to get long.

Again.. Price is drawn like a Magnet to these larger TF's

Yes, you are trading CT but ( IMHO ) this is a higher probability CT trade. Stepping down in TF give you the Pattern w/in the Pattern view.

You are looking for a Rise-Base-Drop set up in the smaller TF .. Trading inside the larger TF of the Drop-Base-Rise of the larger TF. so ask your self were is the pressure? Mos would say down, with the trend.. Yes .. But the immediate pressure with price is up ( in this example ).

You could also trade with the trend in the same manner.

Is price trading inside the Base?

Is price trading inside the Rise?


Is the price trading the Drop after is has returned to a Supply or Demand level.. You can step down in TF and trade with the trend.. Your target must be well define. I look at target in the manner of price trading between the levels.. Supply to Demand of Demand to Supply.


Above all being mindful:
1) of the Larger TF Pattern in play and where price is in relation to that pattern. ( The Pattern w/in the Pattern )
2) How well defined is the Supply / Demand level ( how strong is the Magnet ? ) Were is price most likely to go?


Lastly, I use volume in my trading. Helps define the best levels when there appears to be more than one. I look at the spread of candles, high volume to candle spread, volume to previous volume.. As volume is really activity in Forex this gives me opportunity to define the better levels.

High activity / volume w/ large spread candles are created by only one group.. Smart Money. They are the only ones that can move the market in this manner.

Hope this helps,


TSD
  • #2,759
  • Sep 15, 2013 6:54am Sep 15, 2013 6:54am
Quoting 4Xfactor
{quote} C-12, Thanks very much for your feedback and advice. To repeat I have nothing personal against AG (or its sister organisation RTM). I just wondered if anyone had managed to translate the demo magic into reality. You may say forget about the performance of others, but it is hard to forget this when the marketing strategy of AG, and others, is to continually promote demo accounts which have been tripled or quadrupled, asking the question "Is that really possible?" This strategy may be viewed as inspirational, but if there is little or no...

This is a little frustrating but here goes.I have never really been a person who has disagreed with anyone on a FF thread but you sir are stirring here and trying to upset a very nice group of traders who share analysis and strive to be better.

Let me tell you why you don't think S&D trading works.Let me tell you why you keep on being negative about AG and RTM.It is because you are the person that fails to see things trough to the end.You have been here at FF over 5 years and you still question how the market works.So what have you taught yourself in the time that you have been here?You try and disprove everyone and every system and approach to the market.You have basically become a troll.If you don't want to believe in S&D trading then why go to all these sites.If all these people upset you and lie to you why ask them.

You ask for proof but you are to lazy to search for yourself.So here I will spoon feed you : http://www.readthemarket.com/index.p...y?limitstart=0 This guy is really doing well and has a lot of potential just like every single trader in this thread created by C-12.

C-12 is in the last bit a his journey to becoming a full time trader.Everyone knows its the most difficult thing you will ever do.SO GIVE HIM SOME SLACK!



If you want to see guys trading S&D without even drawing in the boxes then have a look here: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...20829&page=903.Have you ever wondered why all good traders seem to enter the market at about the same place no matter what approach they use.because they have made the charts and turning points there own and have accepted that there is no easy way and have worked themselves to the bone understanding PA and order flow.WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO IMPROVE YOUR TRADING?

S&D Trading does not have a formula.It never will.Either except it or try and find a rules based indicator system.

But please do yourself a favor my friend either learn the approach and share you analysis or stop trying to disprove everyone and everything because that will get you nowhere.

AG,RTM and threads like these are like gold.You dont need anything else to succeed except the will to make this type of trading your own by creating your own system around the principle of S&D

Why dont you open up a demo.Draw some zones enter a couple of trades with good reason and start improving yourself.It will make you a lot happier than always trying to disprove everyone.Stop worrying if other are succeeding and start trying to succeed.Become a part of the FX world and dont try and disprove it.


Please note I will not reply to any of this discussion with you about this as you are really ruining it for the rest of us looking to share information and analysis.

I wish you good luck and great trading

ROOI:nerd:
We miss 100% of the shots we don't take
  • #2,760
  • Sep 15, 2013 9:08am Sep 15, 2013 9:08am
C-12
I'm in a similar boat as you - trying to trade for a living, laid off after many years in a 9/5 job - but in my case I've been working more on getting the psychology right rather than the method or system itself. I would say that Van Tharp material has been extremely helpful into approaching things in a solid manner and building a robust business & trading plan for myself. Just a hint. You're good, you'll make it, no question about it. Cheers!
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