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MT4 Inconsistencies question

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 17, 2013 6:39pm Aug 17, 2013 6:39pm
This is just a generic question. I am using the same algorithm on two different MT4 platforms at the same time, and they produce two different results. One platform executes the algorithm as coded, while the other platform does not execute the algorithm correctly and results in a margin call. Is there anything that can be done about inconsistent performances of the MT4 platforms? Are there other platforms on the market that are adaptive to a C++ algorithm that produces more predictable results for expert advisors?

Thank you for your consideration.
  • #2
  • Aug 17, 2013 10:04pm Aug 17, 2013 10:04pm
you might look at the marketscope platform....

as far as comparing results using 2 separate metatrader platforms, they should be the same if everything involved is the same......

odds are there is some slight difference in data or if using icustoms perhaps a issue with settings..... a few other such reasons come to mind.....h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #3
  • Aug 18, 2013 3:12am Aug 18, 2013 3:12am
Quoting Deut818
This is just a generic question. I am using the same algorithm on two different MT4 platforms at the same time, and they produce two different results. One platform executes the algorithm as coded, while the other platform does not execute the algorithm correctly and results in a margin call. Is there anything that can be done about inconsistent performances of the MT4 platforms? Are there other platforms on the market that are adaptive to a C++ algorithm that produces more predictable results for expert advisors? Thank you for your consideration....
There are a few possibilities:

  1. the difference in spread is causing the difference in performance
  2. the difference is Broker data is causing the difference
  3. one Broker has 4 digit data the other haas 5 digit data and your code does not distinguish between them
  4. your algorithm uses very high risk and little reward


you need to understand why your code is doing what it is doing, test it under the Strategy Tester and understand what is going on.

20 pips a day isn't too much to ask . . .
  • #4
  • Edited 12:54pm Aug 18, 2013 12:32pm | Edited 12:54pm
There is the platform called CTrader, wich the coding language is based in C#

Here is the link
http://www.spotware.com/products/cli...ations/ctrader

The equivalent of metaeditor for this platform is called CAlgo

http://www.spotware.com/products/cli...ications/calgo

Hope it helps.
  • #5
  • Aug 27, 2013 12:22am Aug 27, 2013 12:22am
The strategy was proven successful on the strategy tester, and the algorithm proved flawless and profitable for several months on demo, and is still doing so now. It must have been just a fluke. This issue happened on the same MT4 platforms from the same source file installer from the same broker, using the same currency, same time frame, same algorithm, with the same parameters. My laptop has 16GB of RAM, a i7 Quad 3GHz CPU, and runs 10 MT4 demos at the same time in the background no problems while I work on other applications. I believe that it was just that one MT4 platform that had a glitch, and went off the deep end, but I never experienced that before since 2010. Just wanted to inquire about different platforms available for future plans. I spoke with the developers of LittleFishfx Ninja Trader Bridge for the MT4, and it would allow me to use one NT platform to execute signals on unlimited MT4s. If this becomes an issue, I will convert my algorithms to Java for that alternative. Hopefully execution on NT will be more dependable.



Demos4x, I have been studying C++ for a little while here and there, and plan on mastering it. I think C# is a whole other world, but I do have tutorials on it also and plan to check into it. One of my current brokers uses that platform too. Thank you for the resource.

RaptorUK, this strategy is a martingale investment, but because of the scalping aspect it maintains less than 20% drawdowns, and as the original inquiry reveals, one MT4 platform executed successfully, and one resulted in a stop out.

Hayseed, I think it was a glitch in the indicators that threw the order entries off base and resulted in the stop out on that one MT4.

Thank all of you for your input.
  • #6
  • Aug 27, 2013 1:42am Aug 27, 2013 1:42am
Quoting Deut818
The strategy was proven successful on the strategy tester, and the algorithm proved flawless and profitable for several months on demo, and is still doing so now. It must have been just a fluke. This issue happened on the same MT4 platforms from the same source file installer from the same broker, using the same currency, same time frame, same algorithm, with the same parameters. My laptop has 16GB of RAM, a i7 Quad 3GHz CPU, and runs 10 MT4 demos at the same time in the background no problems while I work on other applications. I believe that it...
Martingale system.. It explained everything..
As we know Martingale system will hit margin call if that system hit x losses in a row, which x is bigger than expected.

Perhaps you have this win-loss distribution: W W L L L L W L L L L L W L W W
MT4 platform can have slight different price, sometime it can be 10 pip, I even see a bad broker which has 40 pip difference from other broker in his chart.
So, this small pip difference can turn a win trade in one broker into a loss trade in another broker.
Your win loss distribution can change into this: W W L L L L L L L L L L W L W W
It only change 1 trade result, the one that I bold.
However, this is fatal for martingale system, since it turn max 5 losses in a row to 10 losses in a row, which send your martingale system to margin call.
  • #7
  • Aug 28, 2013 7:47pm Aug 28, 2013 7:47pm
Martingale is one of the best strategies ever known to man. You just need to incorporate other aspects to your trading plan. Most accounts blow because most people hate to use their heads to think of how they can make it work successfully. Thanks for your comment.
  • #8
  • Aug 29, 2013 11:45am Aug 29, 2013 11:45am
Quoting Deut818
Most accounts blow because most people hate to use their heads to think of how they can make it work successfully.
I totally agreed! And it is clearly the reason why your second account... blowed up... oops.
  • #9
  • Aug 29, 2013 8:14pm Aug 29, 2013 8:14pm
Quoting SKovalyov
{quote} I totally agreed! And it is clearly the reason why your second account... blowed up... oops.
This is fun. 1 out of 2 accounts using the exact same algorithm and parameters. One is successful(not to mention the other 8 successful accounts), the other one stops out, and it's because I was not using my head? Sounds like an empty headed remark to me.
  • #10
  • Aug 30, 2013 1:03am Aug 30, 2013 1:03am
I hate to teach martingale amirers formal logic (they are usualy very bad with this), but if we have two same processes which are ended differently then there definitely was a difference. So use your head to find it. Only you have all needed information for this. And then having this difference narrowed and formalized you can talk about of inconsistencies in MT4, your algo or your head. I hope, you got it. I am not willing to continue to teach you.
  • #11
  • Aug 31, 2013 1:32pm Aug 31, 2013 1:32pm
You can try a C++ platform, Sierra Chart with connectivity to FXCM, Dukascopy, LMAX, Currenex via FIX with stable and fast execution. I think it's better than using a third party API that is probably not thread safe and increase more latency.
http://tinyurl.com/kl9upvw http://tinyurl.com/l4ehwks http://tinyurl.com/mbfh5u4 http://tinyurl.com/m8c3p5t
"But" it does not support hedging cause their target users are US residents. You'll need to develop your own order wrapper like this http://tinyurl.com/lv9vqd5 http://tinyurl.com/mn8bw44

Or you can try the F4 Framework by Asirikuy group, it uses python that sounds easy to integrate your C++ algo
http://tinyurl.com/kbb3usy
Its API connects to MT4, MT5, JForex, Oanda, but seems they do not plan to integrate with FIX.
  • #12
  • Sep 2, 2013 2:47pm Sep 2, 2013 2:47pm
SKovalyov I appreciate you making the time to answer my post with more helpful information, even though it was not beneficial to me honestly. The issue was not a big deal, it was just a question, because I had never encountered the situation before. Even, if it was real money, it wouldn't have mattered. My martingale strategies produce abundance of profits daily that far outweigh an account blow up once in a while. My request was directed towards other people with a better heart attitude. Please don't do me anymore favors if your heart is not in it. I wish you all the best and no harm my friend!

Fraois, thank you for the very informative post. I checked into all of your links and bookmarked them. It is great to learn of another platform for the C++ programming language. Though it requires a work around for hedging, the information you provided was very helpful in resolving the issue. Best regards.
  • #13
  • Edited 5:52am Sep 7, 2013 5:16am | Edited 5:52am
I found another platform you might be interested. It's a Deutsche platform called Zorro. It's not aiming beautiful charting for manual trading instead it's aiming at algorithmic trading with ease. The language is not C++, but they use Lite-C which is widely used in video games. http://zorro-trader.com/features.php But they provide tutorials for C++ programmers and seems a programmer won't have a painful transition http://tinyurl.com/ldg4vob Their forum is active and you can find a bunch of information there. They even provide tutorials for "Martingale" and Grid http://zorro-trader.com/manual/en/tips.htm
Note they use a MT4 bridge for trading with MT4 servers and it's in the form of an EA not directly integrate with an API that directly emulates MT4 protocols like Asirikuy F4 Framework. But I guess you don't trade with MT4 scam brokers anyway.

The biggest disadvantage with Sierra Chart is hedging compliance http://tinyurl.com/kurro5j You can use to two accounts as described for a hedging system but watch out for your margin level in each account. I think creating a virutual order manager like Asirikuy F4 is essential. But there are other advantages for Sierra Chart such as their charting features for manual traders which make a shame on MT4, Ninja, and Multicharts. And they have extensive connections with multiple brokers and asset class. They say when you use a web browser you don't want to integrate an API for each website you want to browse, the same thing should be with a trading platform.
The best feature is the integration with Rithmic. http://tinyurl.com/mozvpdj http://tinyurl.com/lfyadsw It allows you to trade forex futures as well. So you can use Sierra Chart to connect both Currenex and Rithmic at the same time. Then you can go trade simple arbitrage, triangular arbitrage, or even latency arbitrage if you have a fast link between Savvis NJ2 to Aurora, Illinois. Or you can get colocated with CME and Currenex UK POPs in LD4/5 if you don't mind. Or you can even try CME UK POPs with LMAX cause the liquidity is not that good in LMAX and that means more opportunities for arbitrage! All these become a retail solution and I guess you can find a good Martingale strategy with arbitrage.

But regarding backtesting and optomization, Zorro is better & smarter than Sierra Chart. http://tinyurl.com/n6vf49x
They both use FXCM data (not MT4 by FXCM) for backtest, history are shorter than that of Dukascopy. Sierra Chart uses tick data by default and you can use other preferable historical data feed they support. Zorro uses 1 min data by default but allows one to use tick data if he likes. I forgot to mention both platforms allow calling a DLL. Hope we all get rid of MT4 terminals and MT4 brokers in the near future, cheers!
  • #14
  • Sep 7, 2013 6:13pm Sep 7, 2013 6:13pm
Fraois, I thank you again for all of the good information! I am a member of the Zorro Forum and have downloaded their platform. It looks very promising for easy in strategy development, which is great for beginning programmers like myself. Lite-C will be an easy adaptation to C++. Their tutorials are excellent and very detailed to aid in writing algorithm for their platform. I have not started it yet, because of other priorities, but I did read their tutorials on Martingale and Grid trading.

I see that you personally inquired of Sierra Chart about Hedging. It's too bad they have no plans for inclusion in their business. Two accounts nullify the benefit avoiding draw downs in equity by hedging. When time allows I will check into Asirikuy F4, but Rithmic allows automation and that is a necessity. Mechanical trading and I have strong enmity for each other.

I can sense your excitement for Arbitrage. That is a whole other world I would like to capitalizing on.

I have a lot to work to do to explore alternatives to the MT4 platform and direct access to the interbank markets for large volume in 2014, so I am very grateful for your ideas shortening my research. Thank you so much for your time to post! Best regards.
  • #15
  • Last Post: Sep 8, 2013 4:25am Sep 8, 2013 4:25am
Hi, Deut818

I'm curious about what's wrong between you and Mechanical trading? Cause they enjoy having extremely long drawdown periods?

If you want to trade directly with a ECN, you can try brokers that let you access First Derivatives. Maybe you haven't heard of them before. First Derivatives have been growing substantially and taking market share from Currenex and Integral. Here is their share price on the London Stock Exchange: http://tinyurl.com/mkq8426

They have been signing up Tier 1 banks as well as brokers who were traditionally using Currenex or Integral. Their strength is their pricing. They offer lower trading costs to a broker which means better spreads for the client; which can be 0.1 less on the EURUSD than Currenex and 0.2 less than Integral. For algo/auto/black box traders/brokers with MT4 who require an API feed, this is by far the best one. Latency, execution speed etc are similar to Currenex and Integral (First Derivatives is on the NY4 too). The disadvantages are: not everyone knows them, their volumes are less than Currenex and Integral, but their GUI platform is way more user friendly than the traditional looking GUI of Currenex and Integral. http://www.firstderivatives.com/delta_margin.asp


And if you find a great platform, please keep me informed!
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