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HAT Trading method

  • #41
  • Jun 26, 2006 5:50pm Jun 26, 2006 5:50pm
Same as witchazel over here...

And ehhh... it's not because somebody is new to a forum, that he/she is a newbie to trading or forex.

Regards and good luck with the system, Dariuske.
  • #42
  • Jun 26, 2006 6:21pm Jun 26, 2006 6:21pm
To witchazel and dariuske,

If you felt it as a personal attack, it wasn't.

Let me clarify:

Quote
let me explain my point abit, feel free to publicly ridicule me again for trying to help.<o></o>


i think the Heiken Ashi is simply brilliant. the issue i am seeing is with the t3. I agree with you that all entries must be by lagging entry (and i believe all exits must be non lagging). if i were using the t3 as a confirmation of trend i would absolutely exit at point #1 and #2 as it no longer a confirmation. The #3 point is that there will not be many trades, those runs dont happen to often (altho played right you would only need 1 ever [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] ) The t3 will only confirm super runs. The #4 issue, is altho i believe in lagging entries, 4 bars is too much for me, after 4 bars i could pretty much guess there was an uptrend.

now dont get me wrong, i am not saying your system isnt great, because it is, if you caught the right run just once a year you would have alot of $ (if you had $1 for every $10 you had you would have a lot of monies!) [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]. I was just trying to give ideas on how to get it the 1% or 2% better.

Let me address these points:

Quote
the issue i am seeing is with the t3. I agree with you that all entries must be by lagging entry (and i believe all exits must be non lagging).

I had explained to Scott, (and perhaps, not well enough I guess). The T3's job IS TO LAG. This is such such such a strange school of thought, as everybody wants accurate, none lagging indicators, to specifically find a lagging one is counter-intuitive... AT FIRST.

I come from a wrestling background.. Two sayings in wrestling:

1) Where the head goes, the body goes
2) Where the hips go, the ENTIRE BODY goes.

What that means is, if the headfake, there is a possibility that the body will go in that direction. BUT, if the HIPS move in that direction, it is 100% confirmed that the entire body is going in that direction. The "good" basketball players learn and understand this, that's why the good ones aren't prone to headfakes. When the PRICE headfakes, the lagging indicator will not. When the lagging indicator changes directions, then it is like the hips moving, that pretty much confirm the move.

"Ideal" trading goes like this:

--> 20% of the trend used to confirm that a trend has begun.
--> 20% of the trend used to confirm a trend has ended.
--> Take profit on 60% of the "meat" of the trend.

Everybody wants non-lagging entries and even less lagging exits. The problem is, to be 100% non-lagging means that you are now in the realm of "prediction". If that is your cup of tea, great! It's not mine. So the HAT system was not designed to be. It was designed to do what I said, 20/60/20.

Quote
if i were using the t3 as a confirmation of trend i would absolutely exit at point #1 and #2 as it no longer a confirmation.

True. BUT, it didn't give a confirmation of an exit. We keep doing what we were doing until we have a reason to stop doing what we are doing. So I disagree with you there, there wasn't a reason given to exit. Just what seems like a semi-termination of a confirmation. That is absolutely different than a clear signal to exit.

Quote
The #3 point is that there will not be many trades, those runs dont happen to often (altho played right you would only need 1 ever [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] ) The t3 will only confirm super runs. The #4 issue, is altho i believe in lagging entries, 4 bars is too much for me, after 4 bars i could pretty much guess there was an uptrend.

Two things:
After 4 bars, if you know there's an uptrend, then you can trade without indicators.

As for too few trades; I'll take ONE Heidi Klum over all the women from my old high school... Quality over quantity.

Your comments were highly productive.. It made me rethink my original design.

If you have JMA or Hull's, put it in instead of the T3. I think you will find the "more realtimeness" of these indicators, destroys the usefulness of the HAT.
google:
  • #43
  • Jun 26, 2006 6:43pm Jun 26, 2006 6:43pm
Hi twoblink,

Quote
To witchazel and dariuske,

If you felt it as a personal attack, it wasn't.


It didn't. I just don't like to write too much. That's why I use short sentences.

Or maybe it's just a cultural difference.

Regards, Dariuske.
  • #44
  • Jun 26, 2006 7:56pm Jun 26, 2006 7:56pm
Quoting twoblink

I had explained to Scott, (and perhaps, not well enough I guess). The T3's job IS TO LAG. This is such such such a strange school of thought, as everybody wants accurate, none lagging indicators, to specifically find a lagging one is counter-intuitive... AT FIRST.
hehe, oh we are talking about the same thing. I agree 100% with you. i only enter a trade after good indication of a trend. Imho if you are trend trading you have to use lagging indicators. On the the flip side of that I only use real time ones to get out of a trade. I would rather break even and try again then take a loss.

I have been using that double lsma for entry and a cci 12 for exits for about 2 months now with great success. I have recently added Heiken Ashi (for some reason )to it and it has removed some false entries. Thanks for all you work.

sorry to get flustered, i have just been working on this a long time and im too sensitive sometimes lol
  • #45
  • Jun 26, 2006 8:17pm Jun 26, 2006 8:17pm
Quoting twoblink
"Ideal" trading goes like this:

--> 20% of the trend used to confirm that a trend has begun.
--> 20% of the trend used to confirm a trend has ended.
--> Take profit on 60% of the "meat" of the trend.

Everybody wants non-lagging entries and even less lagging exits. The problem is, to be 100% non-lagging means that you are now in the realm of "prediction". If that is your cup of tea, great! It's not mine. So the HAT system was not designed to be. It was designed to do what I said, 20/60/20.
First, I've deleted my insensitive post. My apologies for any unintended offense.

Twoblink, your quote above is in line with Jesse Livermore's thinking. He said the first and last eighths of a move were the most expensive eighths of all. I take this to mean trying to capture them was liking trying to predict tops and bottoms. I like the way you think sir! I hope you follow in Jesse's steps (except the last one).

Dial
sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #46
  • Jun 26, 2006 8:41pm Jun 26, 2006 8:41pm
The twoblink you see now, is a 180 degree different creature than the twoblink one month ago..

You know, reading over 2000+ pages about the forex will change a man, in ways I can't begin to describe!!

I'm blessed and I'm cursed at the same time. I can think in 3D, but I can't put it down on paper or explain it all that well.

Also, finding "The Sauce" as rattled my life, in a good way or a bad way, is yet to be determined... I have studied the markets since I was 9!! (I'm now 30!!) and I have studied options for the past 9 years. To throw EVERYTHING YOU HAVE LEARNED IN THE LAST 21 YEARS OUT THE WINDOW is tramatizing.. to say the least..

So is starting from zero.. Trend trading has more secrets to reveal.. I wish I can just inject sodium amital into it, and make it tell me all its secrets.. But I am getting there..
google:
  • #47
  • Jun 26, 2006 9:14pm Jun 26, 2006 9:14pm
Brilliant! Thanx for these insights

We're lucky to have scott too!

To pose the "right" questions!

HJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
  • #48
  • Jun 27, 2006 5:43am Jun 27, 2006 5:43am
Quoting twoblink
Yes, me too!

I kept the 14 and the 0.618, and that duplicated what I saw in VT as well..

What is "strange" was seeing the Donchian channels go into a "squeeze" on the 15M of the CHF. I'm wondering if squeeze breakouts apply to Donchian Channels like they do BB's.
H twoblink
I've searched my favorites, but at the moment can't find it, but I thought I had a video of a pro trader using exactly this 'squeeze' technique.
He combined it with Bollinger Bands and if I remember correctly when the Donchians were inside the BBs you then had a classic breakout method.
I'm away for a week in France, leaving Thursday, but if I can track the link down before I go, I'll post it.
Pete
  • #49
  • Jun 27, 2006 6:03am Jun 27, 2006 6:03am
Quoting PeterFM
H twoblink
I've searched my favorites, but at the moment can't find it, but I thought I had a video of a pro trader using exactly this 'squeeze' technique.
He combined it with Bollinger Bands and if I remember correctly when the Donchians were inside the BBs you then had a classic breakout method.
I'm away for a week in France, leaving Thursday, but if I can track the link down before I go, I'll post it.
Pete
Hi confused of England here
It might have been Keltner Channels inside the BBs, but I'm sure you guys can play with this and come up with a strategy.
Couldn't find the video, sorry

Pete
  • #50
  • Jun 27, 2006 11:39am Jun 27, 2006 11:39am
Hi all, i've been following this thread with enthusiasm and been demo trading on various time frames in MT4 and have a problem w/my T3 indicator on this end. The one i'm using i got from the MT4 Yahoo group and is authored by "MojoFX"?? Anyway, it seems that in real time the T3 is very unpredictable. I can watch it jump from the top to the bottoms of candles at nearly every tick. Are the MT4 users here using another T3 that they can post for this thread?

The T3 i have is so unpredicable that i've thrown up the HMA at a setting of 34 to 40 just to get some lag out of it, but i want to remain pure to the concept and use a working T3.

Thank you in advance!
: ) Thom
  • #51
  • Jun 27, 2006 12:06pm Jun 27, 2006 12:06pm
Quoting accrete
Hi all, i've been following this thread with enthusiasm and been demo trading on various time frames in MT4 and have a problem w/my T3 indicator on this end. The one i'm using i got from the MT4 Yahoo group and is authored by "MojoFX"?? Anyway, it seems that in real time the T3 is very unpredictable. I can watch it jump from the top to the bottoms of candles at nearly every tick. Are the MT4 users here using another T3 that they can post for this thread?

The T3 i have is so unpredicable that i've thrown up the HMA at a setting of 34 to 40 just to get some lag out of it, but i want to remain pure to the concept and use a working T3.

Thank you in advance!
: ) Thom
Hi accrete
I'm using these from an earlier post
http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...8&postcount=16
but I can't set them to the settings mentioned. There is no obvious way to check the MA (is it EMA, SMA, etc?) I looked at the coding but don't know enough to check the settings.
I know you're a programmer so perhaps you could suss it out, although in the shorter timeframes (15 min or less) it does line dance a bit on this one.
Pete
  • #52
  • Jun 27, 2006 9:09pm Jun 27, 2006 9:09pm
Hi TwoBlink,
Just trying to understand your method. Would you have gone long at the open of this bar (as indicated by red line)? Thanks.

Attiqul
Attached Image
  • #53
  • Jun 27, 2006 9:45pm Jun 27, 2006 9:45pm
Hello Attiqul,

I probably would have gotten in the bar after the bar with the red line. The reason being tat the bar with the red line meets all the critera, but you didn't know that until the next bar appeared. Did that make sense? I would have gotten in at the close of that bar, which in reality, is the open of the next bar...
google:
  • #54
  • Jun 27, 2006 9:52pm Jun 27, 2006 9:52pm
hi accrete,

Chances are, your implimentation of the T3 isn't correct. Try downloading the one that Scott posted in this thread. On MT, I use the default values of 14 and 0.618 <-- golden ratio hehehe.. but the values on MT and VT are different, but it seems the "default" of both produce the correct desired results..

Hi PeterFM,

Thanks for the efforts mate! But it is probably the Bollinger Band + Keltner Channel + Oscillator that you are talking about..

http://www.forexproject.com/tag/bollinger_bands/

If not, let me know!!
google:
  • #55
  • Jun 27, 2006 10:24pm Jun 27, 2006 10:24pm
Quoting twoblink
Hello Attiqul,

I probably would have gotten in the bar after the bar with the red line. The reason being tat the bar with the red line meets all the critera, but you didn't know that until the next bar appeared. Did that make sense? I would have gotten in at the close of that bar, which in reality, is the open of the next bar...
ok, so I enter opening of 2005.01.25 candle (marked red line). As you can see this is a bad signal. Where would you have gone out of this trade, when the red HA bar (2006.01.27) crosses the T3 line (blue cross) or at the close of the 2006.01.27 HA bar?
I have seen so many of these bad trades.

Thanks.
Attiqul
Attached Image
  • #56
  • Jun 27, 2006 11:24pm Jun 27, 2006 11:24pm
Hi Thanks for the replys, the T3 indicator above is the same one i'm using and the one that has accuracy issues even on the daily chart. I'll keep looking for a substitue T3, and if found i'll post the link. Word to the wise, the MT4 T3 indicator linked in this thread is not accurate. I would not trade by it's signals.

Scott, if you have figured out a workaround let me know. I'm interested in following the progress here and am going to try to demo it in the FXSolution charts, as i believe they have all the neccesary indicators.

Thom
  • #57
  • Jun 28, 2006 12:30am Jun 28, 2006 12:30am
Hi Accrete, you are right about T3. The one posted here is not accurate. I have original T3-Tilson indicator on my charting software and I compared daily values with MT4 version and they are completely different. For example, yesterday's daily value for T3 is 1.8315 but it is 1.8240 in MT4 with the same settings. I googled the web but couldn't find the one for MT4.

Quoting accrete
Hi Thanks for the replys, the T3 indicator above is the same one i'm using and the one that has accuracy issues even on the daily chart. I'll keep looking for a substitue T3, and if found i'll post the link. Word to the wise, the MT4 T3 indicator linked in this thread is not accurate. I would not trade by it's signals.

Scott, if you have figured out a workaround let me know. I'm interested in following the progress here and am going to try to demo it in the FXSolution charts, as i believe they have all the neccesary indicators.

Thom
  • #58
  • Edited 6:05am Jun 28, 2006 2:57am | Edited 6:05am
Yes Cristian, your T3 is much more stable then the one that I found. I am going to use yours... All though, it tends to have a little less lag, which is not a good thing for this application, but it is not much and the signals generated appear to be about the same.

Scott


Quoting cristian
I had the same problem with the T3 indicator. Maybe this one performs better.
  • #59
  • Jun 28, 2006 8:12am Jun 28, 2006 8:12am
Twoblink:
I want to thank you for sharing. I have been looking for just such a tool for a long time. I have learned that when one puts out their request to the universe it is always answered. I'm just glad the answer wasn't "NO"
Again, Thanks.
-Andy
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #60
  • Edited 9:00am Jun 28, 2006 8:58am | Edited 9:00am
Quoting smjones
Yes Cristian, your T3 is much more stable then the one that I found. I am going to use yours... All though, it tends to have a little less lag, which is not a good thing for this application, but it is not much and the signals generated appear to be about the same.

Scott
Hi Scott,
I am glad this one could be usefull. It is not mine, I just found it on the web. I was trying to develop a similar sistem, using Kaufman's ama, when I found this thread. So, I wanted to look at Twoblink excellent work and found that the T3 posted here acts "funny".
The default settings of this one are different, maybe you can adjust it like the original.

Regards,
Cristian
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