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Broker with "hard" SL

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 5, 2013 11:49am Aug 5, 2013 11:49am
Hi,

I remember a broker offering a "hard" stoploss. I dont know how to call it exactly, but it's a stoploss thats always respected.

So per example, even if price spikes 50 pips over the stoploss you'll still get the original SL without any slippage or re-quotes caused by the spike.

They had a special kind of account (with a higher spread) to make this possible.

Does anyone know which broker I am talking about? What's the name?

Ty for your time

~WW
  • #2
  • Aug 5, 2013 11:52am Aug 5, 2013 11:52am
And if nobody can help me,

How would Alpari UK, FXCM or Dukascopy act when price spikes straight through the SL ?
  • #3
  • Aug 5, 2013 12:03pm Aug 5, 2013 12:03pm
Obviously you would get slippage, potentially a whole lot of it.

CMC Markets had guaranteed stops, not sure if they still do. But they had a steep fee attached to them.
  • #4
  • Aug 5, 2013 1:59pm Aug 5, 2013 1:59pm
Quoting shrike
CMC Markets had guaranteed stops, not sure if they still do. But they had a steep fee attached to them.
Cannot find anything on their website, so I'm guessing not anymore. Ty though
  • #5
  • Aug 5, 2013 2:07pm Aug 5, 2013 2:07pm
Here you go http://www.ig.com/uk/risk-management pay +3 premium for guarantee.
  • #6
  • Aug 5, 2013 2:22pm Aug 5, 2013 2:22pm
Quoting claudia1
Here you go http://www.ig.com/uk/risk-management pay +3 premium for guarantee.
Thank you! But I am afraid +3 is too much for me.

Quoting wickedwin
And if nobody can help me, How would Alpari UK, FXCM or Dukascopy act when price spikes straight through the SL ?
Back to my second question; which broker of those 3 would give me the least amount of slippage in such a case? I know it's personal experience but I really hope someone can give me a few pointers..
  • #7
  • Aug 5, 2013 3:24pm Aug 5, 2013 3:24pm
The only way a broker can offer this is if they don't really have you on the market. Slippage is just part of the game...
  • #8
  • Aug 5, 2013 6:06pm Aug 5, 2013 6:06pm
Quoting wickedwin
And if nobody can help me, How would Alpari UK, FXCM or Dukascopy act when price spikes straight through the SL ?
Hi WW,

I can't speak for other brokers, but with FXCM if your stop loss is triggered, then it becomes a market order and is filled at the best available market price, which could be worse than the stop price you set. As Kanzler mentioned, slippage is one of the risks that comes with trading. However, slippage can be positive or negative. Positive slippage is when your order gets filled at a better price. This is also known as a price improvement. The stats below show that with FXCM, clients are just as likely to receive price improvements as they are to receive negative slippage.


http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1...ovementspo.png


It's just that price improvements are more likely to occur with limit orders, while negative slippage is more likely to occur with stop orders, because of the momentum in the market. The lesson is to use limit orders whenever possible to open and close orders. Here are more tips on how to minimize negative slippage.

Jason
  • #9
  • Aug 6, 2013 10:00am Aug 6, 2013 10:00am
Quoting wickedwin
And if nobody can help me, How would Alpari UK, FXCM or Dukascopy act when price spikes straight through the SL ?
Hi wickedwin,

With regards to your concerns about Stop Loss orders, part of the problem with orders lies around the execution conventions of certain order types. The convention around Stop Loss orders is that they are open-ended. There is a risk of slippage that is determined by the prices available in the market, but the understanding has always been that these are an "at best" order – because as painful as some slippage might be, it might be a lot more painful if the order just isn't filled at all.

Whilst Stop-based entry orders are designed to "catch the wave", you have to remember that, by definition, you will always be trading in the direction of least liquidity – and some slippage should be considered part of the entry price. Occasionally this might be modest, but the realistic fact is that when you trade at the point of greatest uncertainty there is no way to pre-define your risk.

Again, this comes back to this risks associated with trading news releases – they can be very profitable – but they can also cause significant loss.


Alex

________
Alexander Chadwick
Alpari (UK) Representative
  • #10
  • Aug 6, 2013 5:45pm Aug 6, 2013 5:45pm
Quoting wickedwin
Hi, I remember a broker offering a "hard" stoploss. I dont know how to call it exactly, but it's a stoploss thats always respected. So per example, even if price spikes 50 pips over the stoploss you'll still get the original SL without any slippage or re-quotes caused by the spike. They had a special kind of account (with a higher spread) to make this possible. Does anyone know which broker I am talking about? What's the name? Ty for your time ~WW
I've seen companies offer these but they come with terms and like anything guaranteed it comes with a cost.

Wider spreads or higher brokerage ..

Try managing the risk yourself with staggered position size losses or profits..
  • #11
  • Aug 7, 2013 12:42am Aug 7, 2013 12:42am
Quoting Alpari UK
{quote} Hi wickedwin, With regards to your concerns about Stop Loss orders, part of the problem with orders lies around the execution conventions of certain order types. The convention around Stop Loss orders is that they are open-ended. There is a risk of slippage that is determined by the prices available in the market, but the understanding has always been that these are an "at best" order – because as painful as some slippage might be, it might be a lot more painful if the order just isn't filled at all. Whilst Stop-based entry orders are...
well said.
  • #12
  • Aug 10, 2013 5:03pm Aug 10, 2013 5:03pm
3 pips at IG seem pretty good deal. Doubt you will find better. I always use them for my swing trades when trade size above certain threshold. Don't want 100 pip slippage to ruin my weekend. However, I found guaranteed stop too expensive if trading stocks.
  • #13
  • Aug 11, 2013 5:13am Aug 11, 2013 5:13am
Quoting seaman2
3 pips at IG seem pretty good deal. Doubt you will find better. I always use them for my swing trades when trade size above certain threshold. Don't want 100 pip slippage to ruin my weekend. However, I found guaranteed stop too expensive if trading stocks.
indeed 3 pips is reasonable for a g/td stop, however, with IG they put a lot of limitations about how close that can be to the market and when/if you can move it later, so not effective for most intraday trading
  • #14
  • Aug 11, 2013 5:24am Aug 11, 2013 5:24am
Quoting MaxDoom
{quote} indeed 3 pips is reasonable for a g/td stop, however, with IG they put a lot of limitations about how close that can be to the market and when/if you can move it later, so not effective for most intraday trading
naah, would not use for intraday trading. But for swing trade, when notional position is >> than my total NAV and stop around 1 day ATR, I like insurance. So far, I never used it as my time stops always got me out in bad trades. But I am in process of increasing my account aggressively so comes handy.

300 pips in audusd slippage or weekend gap will ruin more than just my weekend. However, they have limitations on size, At 1 price you can load 1M, then another one 10 pips away, etc. So part of position, I leave uninsured.
  • #15
  • Aug 14, 2013 8:28am Aug 14, 2013 8:28am
I think it's impossible on the real market. Brokers who offer "hard" stops will charge you even more than you'd potentially lose on slippage without "hard" stop-loss.
  • #16
  • Aug 14, 2013 4:07pm Aug 14, 2013 4:07pm
yeah, I only take insurance when black swan would hurt my standard of living.

I need it now as very aggressive bets are made to capitalize on my skills.
  • #17
  • Aug 15, 2013 3:17am Aug 15, 2013 3:17am
Is hard SL you mentioned a broker that no requotes or slippage ?
  • #18
  • Aug 15, 2013 3:47am Aug 15, 2013 3:47am
Quoting undergroundz
Is hard SL you mentioned a broker that no requotes or slippage ?
i would not use hard sl for intraday trading. Charge you 3 pips for major pairs and more for rest.

This broker 'IG' has requotes experienced at critical points. I am only hobby intraday trader.

But for swing trade is good value in my books where stop is 100 pips or so.
  • #19
  • Aug 15, 2013 6:52am Aug 15, 2013 6:52am
A hard stop loss can only be achieved with a market maker broker as they are not sending orders to the real market hence they are not bank execution sensitive.
  • #20
  • Aug 15, 2013 7:05am Aug 15, 2013 7:05am
Quoting marytpip
A hard stop loss can only be achieved with a market maker broker as they are not sending orders to the real market hence they are not bank execution sensitive.
yes they are MM but their price follows other brokers well. No complaints. I am not sure why people don't like mm brokers.

Biggest problem with non-mm brokers is slippage when liquidity low (or they say is low). Read couple of horror stories. This just does not happen with MM broker.

Also insurance paid for guaranteed stop can be used by broker to purchase or create some options that hedge them in case of adverse move.

well, I am not here to advertise for anyone so will stop.
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