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Price CANNOT be random

  • #21
  • Aug 13, 2013 1:39am Aug 13, 2013 1:39am
Quoting Masterm1nd
{quote} Simplest answer yet very meaningful one, Prices are definitely Fractals not random .
JacekPreserve Precious Capital
  • #22
  • Aug 13, 2013 1:51am Aug 13, 2013 1:51am
Quoting pemully
Prices are fractal not random.
Good one, yes they are... concise and accurate.
  • #23
  • Aug 13, 2013 1:56am Aug 13, 2013 1:56am
What if one Guy Turn 100 dollar to ((1 Milion Dollar )) ?
guys say Price is random are very Funny, I said before Price in Some level is 100% predictable becuase of Gap in Past Prices and Current Price
You Must Love CandleSticks
  • #24
  • Aug 13, 2013 1:57am Aug 13, 2013 1:57am
Quoting Ishtana
{quote} . The biggest mistake a retail traders can do is to enter this exclusive club without knowing anything about them.
I fell in Love with the statement .
"I made money every time you place your Stop loss too close to ME"
  • #25
  • Aug 13, 2013 3:10am Aug 13, 2013 3:10am
Quoting Ishtana
The biggest mistake a retail traders can do is to enter this exclusive club without knowing anything about them.
What do you know about them and what are you implying should be understood to use this to your advantage?

Quoting Ishtana
I've told everyone several times now, my concept of trading is different and at times opposite of common trading concept, so it's ok if you don't agree with me.
If i shared my methods people would burn me at the stakes
  • #26
  • Aug 13, 2013 3:30am Aug 13, 2013 3:30am
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} What do you know about them and what are you implying should be understood to use this to your advantage? {quote} If i shared my methods people would burn me at the stakes
I find people with +10V speak at a higher level than me. I don't understand your question/statement.

Assuming you're talking about my method, I've shared it somewhere in this forum and I didn't get burned at the stakes.
  • #27
  • Aug 13, 2013 4:05am Aug 13, 2013 4:05am
Quoting Ishtana
{quote} I find people with +10V speak at a higher level than me. I don't understand your question/statement. Assuming you're talking about my method, I've shared it somewhere in this forum and I didn't get burned at the stakes.
You must of misunderstood me:

The biggest mistake a retail traders can do is to enter this exclusive club without knowing anything about them.

What exactly are you referring to with the above comment of yours? i.e.: 'exclusive club'.
What is there to know here, that can improve ones advantage of profiting?
  • #28
  • Edited 5:56am Aug 13, 2013 4:26am | Edited 5:56am
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} You must of misunderstood me: The biggest mistake a retail traders can do is to enter this exclusive club without knowing anything about them. What exactly are you referring to with the above comment of yours? i.e.: 'exclusive club'. What is there to know here, that can improve ones advantage of profiting?
The exclusive club of forex market consists of wholesale traders, the retail traders are out of this club. The big guys are blind to your orders of 10, 100, even 500 lots that you put through your retail brokers unless your broker is a market maker broker, in which case your order will be significant to your bottom line.

The big boys are the world's largest investment banks and financial institutions who deal with foreign exchange transaction. They hire the smartest, the most expensive-money-can-buy market makers/specialist/dealers to handle each and every currency. No currency pair is ever left alone. Each currency has a specialist(s) who maintains the spread of the currency. Every spread movement is never left to chance. Even during bank holidays. Spread is one of the most useful and profitable tool the big boys utilize.

Now, if they are only there to serve their clients who need genuine commercial foreign exchange transactions (non-speculative purpose), then life would be beautiful, ... and flat. The volatility might be around 10 pips a day, and there won't be any trend in any form. Price will just stagnate and consolidate. Price may just move to accommodate inflation.

But human nature comes into play. When people see the opportunity to make what seems to be easy money, despite knowing the risk of loss, they will gamble away. The best lawmakers in the world cannot put this human nature to stop. That's why drug dealing, prostitution, and slavery, and other black market activities can never be completely stopped. It is an endless cycle of catching the seniors and anticipating the juniors.

In forex market, speculators try to make profit from the volatility, and the banks and institutions themselves have their own trading account. Major conflict of interest arises. Because for someone to win, someone else, directly or indirectly, has to lose. And banks are not trading for charitable purpose. They trade for profit and profit alone. At this moment in time, which is at the creation of the forex's "let there be light!" moment, volatility was born, "trend" was created, billions change hand rapidly. The simple reason for this is the information asymmetry. The big boys know much more than their clients and we all do. This shouldn't come as a surprise. Every business knows something about their business than their clients. Otherwise, people will stop going to McDonald.

The edge to be gained is to know when the major players trade. Because when they trade, they use real money of their own, and they won't do that unless they know with a very high probability that they have enough profit and liquidity to support their entry and exit.

How do we know when and how the big boys trade? Unless someone from the inside leaks the information, we will NEVER know with 100% certainty. The best we can do is to study the chart and think like they do. If you are to spend a billion on a long order, don't you want to make sure there are sell order to fulfill your giant long order? And if you have the power to move the price, isn't there something you can do to uh... "induce" people to sell by validating their um... indicators/wave/candlestick pattern/etc?
  • #29
  • Aug 13, 2013 4:34am Aug 13, 2013 4:34am
Now things are getting complicated .
"I made money every time you place your Stop loss too close to ME"
  • #30
  • Aug 13, 2013 5:02am Aug 13, 2013 5:02am
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} What exactly are you referring to with the above comment of yours? i.e.: 'exclusive club'. What is there to know here, that can improve ones advantage of profiting?
1. "Exclusive club" I think ISHATANA is referring with banks, hedge funds and huge investment institutions.

2. What is there to know here, that can improve ones advantage of profiting? Defends on how a traders trade their belief some would disagree/agree Price is not random however in the end what matter is how much money you make/lose.

ISHATANA: "I find people with +10V speak at a higher level than me".
I guess they need to prove their +10V by making things to complicated! If they just simply answer YES or No things would definitely be boring . I guess I need to start speaking like EINSTEIN does :nerd:.
"I made money every time you place your Stop loss too close to ME"
  • #31
  • Aug 13, 2013 5:26am Aug 13, 2013 5:26am
Quoting masterm1nd
in the end what matter is how much money you make/lose.
yes

Quoting masterm1nd
ishatana: "i find people with +10v speak at a higher level than me". I guess they need to prove their +10v by making things to complicated! If they just simply answer yes or no things would definitely be boring .
no

Quoting masterm1nd
i guess i need to start speaking like einstein does :nerd:.
no

I was going to enlighten you guys with my magic 10V wand, but since i talk like Einstein i guess you lot wont understand me, so i will let you folks to it .

c ya
  • #32
  • Aug 13, 2013 5:37am Aug 13, 2013 5:37am
Quoting Masterm1nd
{quote} 2. What is there to know here, that can improve ones advantage of profiting? Defends on how a traders trade their belief some would disagree/agree Price is not random however in the end what matter is how much money you make/lose.
IMHO we can take this as a sign to move into regulated markets where profits may be lower, but price generation is not a scam.
  • #33
  • Aug 13, 2013 5:42am Aug 13, 2013 5:42am
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} yes {quote} no {quote} no I was going to enlighten you guys with my magic 10V wand, but since i talk like Einstein i guess you lot wont understand me, so i will let you folks to it . c ya
Sounds a bit snobbish to me. But that's fine. Some take, some give, some pull out empty thread. I'm already enlightened anyway.

I'm as bright as the third generation Aneutronic fusion fuel cell rod. At the most efficient use of tritium (3H), deuterium (2H), and helium-3 (3He):

3He + 3He -> 2p + 4He

I hope you understand this coz I know so little about nuclear physics.

I answered your question then you run away and hide behind your +10V instead of contributing... cya
  • #34
  • Aug 13, 2013 5:47am Aug 13, 2013 5:47am
Quoting Ishtana
{quote} Sounds a bit snobbish to me. But that's fine. Some take, some give, some pull out empty thread. I'm already enlightened anyway. I'm as bright as the third generation Aneutronic fusion fuel cell rod. At the most efficient use of tritium (3H), deuterium (2H), and helium-3 (3He): 3He + 3He -> 2p + 4He I hope you understand this coz I know so little about nuclear physics.
I see you took it personal, although i wasnt speaking to you. But hey, so long as it helps you make money then all is good.

And no, i dont know anything about nuclear physics. Dont complicate it

Im quite amused that just because i have 10V (which frankly means jack shit anyway) you guys attack it.
Im raffling my vouches away if any of you want them, you can have them all.
  • #35
  • Aug 13, 2013 5:52am Aug 13, 2013 5:52am
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} I see you took it personal, although i wasnt speaking to you. But hey, so long as it helps you make money then all is good. And no, i dont know anything about nuclear physics. Dont complicate it Im quite amused that just because i have 10V (which frankly means jack shit anyway) you guys attack it. Im raffling my vouches away if any of you want them, you can have them all.
There is no you and me. Only us. When you post, everyone reads it. When you help and share, everyone benefits.

When you refuse to help us because one person says something about you, no one benefits.

I myself cannot claim a single credit on my profitability. I would be lying to myself if I did all this by myself. That's just plain stupid.

No, it's not about the +10V, it's about the way you use it.
  • #36
  • Aug 13, 2013 6:00am Aug 13, 2013 6:00am
Quoting Ishtana
{quote} There is no you and me. Only us. When you post, everyone reads it. When you help and share, everyone benefits. When you refuse to help us because one person says something about you, no one benefits. I myself cannot claim a single credit on my profitability. I would be lying to myself if I did all this by myself. That's just plain stupid.
Yes there is no you and me, i agree. And yes people (like yourself) enjoy sharing and 'giving back', its just human nature to help, especially since we all learn through others. But there is so much one should share and the rest should be kept private.

You spend years upon years researching, testing, analyzing etc to eventually build a money making machine.

Are you honestly telling me you are willing to hand out ALL your sweat blood and tears just like that? Lets be rational here.

PS: As for 'the way i use my vouches'.... honestly have no clue what you mean with this. Vouches mean absolutely nothing to me. I dont get an ego high from it you know. I will talk to anybody (with or without vouches) the exact same way.
  • #37
  • Aug 13, 2013 6:07am Aug 13, 2013 6:07am
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} Yes there is no you and me, i agree. And yes people (like yourself) enjoy sharing and 'giving back', its just human nature to help, especially since we all learn through others. But there is so much one should share and the rest should be kept private. You spend years upon years researching, testing, analyzing etc to eventually build a money making machine. Are you honestly telling me you are willing to hand out ALL your sweat blood and tears just like that? Lets be rational here.
To be really honest with you, there is a thread here that discusses the method openly, with plenty of charts. I was merely adding myself into the discussion. The whole method is something that is openly discussed. You'll be surprised to know that there are traders who are 10x times better than me, here in this forum. I gawk at their charts, how on earth do they know price will move 200pips and they set their TP at exactly 200 pips? Puzzled. The largest pip gain I've gotten so far is ~70 pips. Most of my trade are about ~20 pips.

So my sweat, blood, and tears are my practice and experience. Day and night. I've paid my dues. It is not transferable. If someone sits next to me and I talk my trade through as I'm putting trade, they will think I'm out there. People who read that thread already know what I know, but without practice and experience, I doubt they can use this method successfully. This method is not mechanical. The market is not mechanical in anyway. It's fluid. It's emotive. It's ever changing. That's why an EA has a very slim to consistently work. The big boys play by the money rules, and the money changes everyday.

P.S: I guess when you said something like this:

I was going to enlighten you guys with my magic 10V wand, but since i talk like Einstein i guess you lot wont understand me, so i will let you folks to it .
Quoting Ishtana
I've told everyone several times now, my concept of trading is different and at times opposite of common trading concept, so it's ok if you don't agree with me.
If i shared my methods people would burn me at the stakes

People can take it the wrong way.
  • #38
  • Aug 13, 2013 6:15am Aug 13, 2013 6:15am
Quoting adam.w
{quote} IMHO we can take this as a sign to move into regulated markets where profits may be lower, but price generation is not a scam.
The same principles work in all financial markets, be it regulated or not. The market makers who deals with equity work the same way. Market makers work is not illegal. They are not villain. They want to make profit like the rest of us. Difference being they have massive advantage and using it.
  • #39
  • Aug 13, 2013 6:23am Aug 13, 2013 6:23am
Quoting Ishtana
The market is not mechanical in anyway. It's fluid. It's emotive. It's ever changing. That's why an EA has a very slim to consistently work. The big boys play by the money rules, and the money changes everyday.
Quoting Ishtana
P.S: I guess when you said something like this: I was going to enlighten you guys with my magic 10V wand, but since i talk like Einstein i guess you lot wont understand me, so i will let you folks to it . Quoting Ishtana I've told everyone several times now, my concept of trading is different and at times opposite of common trading concept, so it's ok if you don't agree with me. If i shared my methods people would burn me at the stakes People can take it...
Ok im getting tired of this. My comments above was sarcasm, but it seems im the only one that got it.

As for my methods i was being serious. Any worthwhile method will never be divulged in public. Liquidity is precious.

Dont let me distract you from your thread, as in fact i was interested to read what you was sharing. Carry on.
  • #40
  • Edited 7:03am Aug 13, 2013 6:49am | Edited 7:03am
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} {quote} Ok im getting tired of this. My comments above was sarcasm, but it seems im the only one that got it. As for my methods i was being serious. Any worthwhile method will never be divulged in public. Liquidity is precious. Dont let me distract you from your thread, as in fact i was interested to read what you was sharing. Carry on.
Me too. So are you going to enlighten us?

The reason why I'm sharing step by step, thread by thread, is so that people can take it and digest it. If I go straight to the strategy, people will just ignore it and get back to their trusty indi trading because my methods will sound so strange. Our belief depends on our understanding. If we understand how something works, we are more confident to work around it. If I say now that you should buy when all your trend indicators flashing sell you'll get similar response to my other threads. So by doing that I'll be doing disservice to them, denying them the opportunity to be profitable. I'm sure by now people have been collecting the stuff I share and their faith in their indicators begin to diminish. Slowly and surely , as they keep learning about the truth in the market, they will be constantly profitable.

And I agree when you say most people don't share their working strategy. Sharing is indeed hurting. There's even a thread on it. But like I said, my method is openly discussed and is not mechanical. It would be hard for say 10 of us to make the same exact entry and exit.
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