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HCR-LCS + SFP Research thread

  • #461
  • Jul 29, 2013 3:26am Jul 29, 2013 3:26am
Hi PB,

"If you are trading the Daily levels, you should be looking at only the Daily signatures also..."

Ok, a bit confused here. I thought if say you have a PBT&CA a DHCR, you then drop to a lower TF, for example the H1 to see whether any H1 bars fail to close above the DHCR, thereby by confirming/giving more strength to the PBT&CA D1 bar?

"Not sure what you mean about using the swing points as HCR"


Sorry, I did not mean using the swing point as HCR-LCS, I meant the close of the candles at the swing points?

Thanks
  • #462
  • Jul 29, 2013 3:36am Jul 29, 2013 3:36am
Quoting ghous
{quote} This is what I meant: {image} g.
Oh so this is criteria for staying in the trade?
  • #463
  • Jul 29, 2013 4:02am Jul 29, 2013 4:02am
Quoting Pinbar
{quote} Oh so this is criteria for staying in the trade?
Read my posts from earlier.

We saw a weak bearish pin bar form, and I was looking for it to get filled in and price to continue itsway north and hit my TP. It only partially filled the wick on Friday and once again closed slightly bearish which is when I decided to kill the trade.

g.
I believe . . .
  • #464
  • Edited 6:36am Jul 29, 2013 4:10am | Edited 6:36am
Quoting danjuma
Hi PB, "If you are trading the Daily levels, you should be looking at only the Daily signatures also..." Ok, a bit confused here. I thought if say you have a PBT&CA a DHCR, you then drop to a lower TF, for example the H1 to see whether any H1 bars fail to close above the DHCR, thereby by confirming/giving more strength to the PBT&CA D1 bar? "Not sure what you mean about using the swing points as HCR" Sorry, I did not mean using the swing point as HCR-LCS, I meant the close of the candles at the swing points? Thanks
Ok, I think I see where your Dilemma lies, here and it is something I posted about previously.

A great many people seem to confuse the weekly or daily signature Jarroo talks about with the entry.

The signature, is what keeps you in the trade or takes you out, it is not the trigger.

The trigger is either small time frame PA,H1 even M15 or a pure touch trade off the level.
  • #465
  • Jul 29, 2013 4:15am Jul 29, 2013 4:15am
Quoting ghous
{quote} Read my posts from earlier. We saw a weak bearish pin bar form, and I was looking for it to get filled in and price to continue itsway north and hit my TP. It only partially filled the wick on Friday and once again closed slightly bearish which is when I decided to kill the trade. g.
I just read the older post, I am with you now on that PB wick.

The arrow pointing to the bar prior to the PB is what threw me off.
  • #466
  • Jul 29, 2013 8:47am Jul 29, 2013 8:47am
PB,

Thanks for your replies and patient. So this is the way I currently understand it:

Say I am looking at a daily chart, and PBT&CA a recent DHCR (which was drawn at the location of either a recent consolidation box or at the close of a recent swing point). I then drop down to an H1 chart to look for PA candle and if there is one, take the trade. I go back to the daily chart to place my SL, which would normally be some pips under the low of the PBT&CA candle. I then drop down to the H1 chart to look for signatures to manage the trade.

Am I on the right track or am talking bullocks?
  • #467
  • Jul 29, 2013 12:37pm Jul 29, 2013 12:37pm
Quoting danjuma
Once again PB, thank you very much for detailed and clear explanation. 1. With regards to TFs, I kind of know which TF I want to stick too, which is the daily because it's better for me due to work commitments and also J16 and most the seniors recommend the daily TF for newbs. My question was that If I was trading the daily TF and using Jarroo's method, what TF should I use to check the signatures, H1 or H4? Also, do I do my entry on the daily TF or drop down to the H1 or H4 for entry? I think the confusion sometimes is that I see you guys get a...
Generally one uses the Higher Time Frame for a Setup
After you defined your Setup you drop down to a Lower Time Frame for the Trigger (Entry) . Which Time Frame you are going to use depends on how aggressive you approach the trade.

If for instance you use your Daily Time Frame to scan for Setups. The Trigger Time Frame can be anything lower 4H, 1h , 15 Min, 5 Min, 1 Min.

The most important thing is that you need a Setup AND a Trigger before you can enter. SETUP + TRIGGER = TRADE ENTRY ..
SETUP with no TRIGGER = NO TRADE

For example a IF YOUR SETUP ACCORDING TO THE RULES OF THIS THREAD IS FOR A POSSIBLE SHORT. Then you look at the 15Min and it will make Higher Highs and Higher Lows.( While approaching the SETUP point.) As soon as the trend of the 15 Min change by taking out the previous Low. You will look to enter on the pullback which will most probably be the first Lower High. You might also want to see as confirmation a MOVING AVERAGE CROSSOVER like an 8 EMA crossing under a 34 EMA. on the Lower Time Frame

There lots of ways to look for a Trigger but keep it simple and look for a trend change in the lower time frame. Trend change allways first in the lower time Frame and then rolls over to the Higher Time Frames. Just a caveat a low time frame like a 5 Min might stop you out more often because it can change trend in a whipsaw like manner.

Hereunder is a summarry used by a wellknown trader about Triggers that she uses. She has a totally different way to define her SETUPS. REMEMBER THE SETUP IS A DEFINED PRICEZONE WHERE ONE EXPECT A CERTAIN PRICE ACTION. YOUR TRIGGER IS THAT IMPORTANT KEY THAT TELLS YOU WHETHER THAT SETUP(DEFINED PRICEZONE / or PRICE LEVEL (SUPPORT or RESISTANCE) is going to HOLD and evolve in a succesful trade
Simple Triggers


(to use on all charts other than the
daily)
daily)
For a sell entry: Prior swing low is taken out AND there is a moving average
crossover with the 8 bar ema crossing below the 34 ema.
(If you take out a prior swing low but the moving averages have not crossed to the downside, wait
for the crossover. If you have the moving average crossover but have not taken out a prior swing
low wait for it to take out a prior swing low.)
If you don't enter on the first firing of the trigger, you can buy the next pullback instead, anywhere
from 50% - 786% back to the prior swing.
For a buy entry: Prior swing high is taken out AND there is a moving average
crossover with the 8 bar ema crossing above the 34 ema.
(If you take out a prior swing high but the moving averages have not crossed to the upside, wait for
the crossover. If you have the moving average crossover but have not taken out a prior swing high
yet, wait for it to take out a prior swing high.)
If you don't enter on the first firing of the trigger, you can buy the next pullback instead, anywhere
from 50% - 786% back to the prior swing.
***It is more ideal IF the crossover is by a decent margin rather than a "peek"
above.***
  • #468
  • Jul 29, 2013 12:54pm Jul 29, 2013 12:54pm
banco,

Thank you most kindly. I am most obliged.

I will leave out the other bit about "...summarry used by a wellknown trader about Triggers that she uses. She has a totally different way to define her SETUPS..." for now, just gonna confuse me more.
  • #469
  • Jul 29, 2013 1:29pm Jul 29, 2013 1:29pm
Danjuma

Pleasure. Agree it is much easier if you see it on the charts. Will look if I can post an example. Best will be if we use one of Pinbar`s SETUP LEVELS on the Daily which work out to be a nice trade. I have just do it on one of the previous pages and played around with the trigger time frames. Sometimes a 30 Min gives better swings( Higher Highs and Higher Lows) Than the 15 Min or 1 H. Use the Trigger Time Frame with the more smooth rythmic swings. It change from Forex Pair to Forex Pair and even the same pair like the EUR/USD RYTHM will change.

The Crux of trading is

SETUP + TRIGGER = TRADE ENTRY
SETUP with no TRIGGER = NO TRADE

Trigger is allways on a Lower Time Frame.

KEEP IT SIMPLE especialy on the Trigger Chart Template you only plot a 8EMA and 34 EMA . NOTHING ELSE. Then you will easily follow the swings. HH and HL forms an uptrend and LH and LL forms an downtrend.

You might want to put a horizontal line on the Trigger Time Frame at the LEVEL( SETUP ZONE ) as defined on the DAILY. Then you can monitor that level on the trigger time frame and see how the price action reacts as it approaches that level. If it simply goes through it with Higher Highs and Higher Lows as previously for instance, then there is no trend change therefore no Trigger and No Trade and no harm done to your account.
  • #470
  • Jul 29, 2013 1:55pm Jul 29, 2013 1:55pm
Quoting banco
Danjuma Pleasure. Agree it is much easier if you see it on the charts. Will look if I can post an example. Best will be if we use one of Pinbar`s SETUP LEVELS on the Daily which work out to be a nice trade. I have just do it on one of the previous pages and played around with the trigger time frames. Sometimes a 30 Min gives better swings( Higher Highs and Higher Lows) Than the 15 Min or 1 H. Use the Trigger Time Frame with the more smooth rythmic swings. It change from Forex Pair to Forex Pair and even the same pair like the EUR/USD RYTHM will...
banco,

"..Will look if I can post an example. Best will be if we use one of Pinbar`s SETUP LEVELS on the Daily which work out to be a nice trade..."

I am most certainly looking forward to this. Many thanks.
  • #471
  • Edited 7:24pm Jul 29, 2013 7:09pm | Edited 7:24pm
Quoting danjuma
PB, Thanks for your replies and patient. So this is the way I currently understand it: Say I am looking at a daily chart, and PBT&CA a recent DHCR (which was drawn at the location of either a recent consolidation box or at the close of a recent swing point). I then drop down to an H1 chart to look for PA candle and if there is one, take the trade. I go back to the daily chart to place my SL, which would normally be some pips under the low of the PBT&CA candle. I then drop down to the H1 chart to look for signatures to manage the trade. Am I on the...
Banco laid it out well for you.

I think you have basically got it.

However, Jarroo will touch trade these levels without a trigger, if there is a lot of confluence involved.
Also, he is using the ATR sl as in the original sfp. Sometimes he will even use a small buffer, so that even if price did not quite hit his level, he will take the trade.
I am not so keen on the buffers as, how can we really be sure price has tested the level, if it never reaches it.

As for the mention of the EMA crossover, this is not part of Jarroo's methodology. Maybe Banco added it as a filter from some other system but, I have certainly never seen Jarroo using them.

For example, the #SQ3 setup, I had waited for, missed hitting the LLS by 1.75 pips, I did not take it as, price is already to far away from the entry and too close to the FTA to make it viable.

Still, it is hard to sit on my hands for days, and then see this occur.
That said, it is the nature of the beast and, I would rather be out of a trade wishing I was in it than, in a trade wishing I was out of it.
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  • #472
  • Jul 29, 2013 7:51pm Jul 29, 2013 7:51pm
Just flipping through charts to see if anything else is approaching an interesting level.
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  • #473
  • Jul 30, 2013 3:01am Jul 30, 2013 3:01am
watching this on d1 today
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  • #474
  • Jul 30, 2013 3:09am Jul 30, 2013 3:09am
Many thanks for the replies PB. With reference to your last chart, please see my questions in red annotated on your original chart below:

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  • #475
  • Jul 30, 2013 3:53am Jul 30, 2013 3:53am
Quoting danjuma
Many thanks for the replies PB. With reference to your last chart, please see my questions in red annotated on your original chart below: {image}
Have you seen Jarroo's videos on the Daily close confirmation?

If not he posted the link here.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...92#post6739092
  • #476
  • Edited 5:30am Jul 30, 2013 5:10am | Edited 5:30am
Quoting danjuma
Many thanks for the replies PB. With reference to your last chart, please see my questions in red annotated on your original chart below: {image}

I understand why the DCC or WCC is confusing.
And Jarroo himself also says to enter on the DCC or the pullback.
He has never said as much to me but, I suspect that if the DCC or WCC is close to our level, it is ok to enter, if it is too far away, as in some of the examples I drew on the chart, it makes sense to enter on the pullback. If there is one.

Hope this clears things up.
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  • #477
  • Edited 5:34am Jul 30, 2013 5:21am | Edited 5:34am
Here is another one, actually this one annoyed me as, I was waiting for price to reach the HHR in the swing point.
It still may if it finds support around 129.151 area.
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  • #478
  • Jul 30, 2013 5:36am Jul 30, 2013 5:36am
Quoting Pinbar
{quote} Have you seen Jarroo's videos on the Daily close confirmation? If not he posted the link here. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...92#post6739092
Thanks for the video link PB. I must confess though, I find Jarroo's video's not very clear with regards to the basics of his method.
  • #479
  • Jul 30, 2013 5:57am Jul 30, 2013 5:57am
Quoting Pinbar
{quote} I understand why the DCC or WCC is confusing. And Jarroo himself also says to enter on the DCC or the pullback. He has never said as much to me but, I suspect that if the DCC or WCC is close to our level, it is ok to enter, if it is too far away, as in some of the examples I drew on the chart, it makes sense to enter on the pullback. If there is one. Hope this clears things up. {image}
Thanks for the replies and charts, and please just to let you know I very much appreciate your time and patience. However, I am just getting slightly more confused. Outlined below once again is the way I understand it, trading daily charts for example.

1. Open a weekly chart, draw your HCR-LCS at recent consolidation box (this I am still not sure where the low or high will be as pointed out in your last chart I annotated) or the close of a recent swing point.
2. Go down to daily chart and do same as above. Then wait for a set-up on the daily chart - PBT&CA or CB.
3. Say there was a PBT&CB the DLCS, wait for a DCC of the PBT&CB (a daily bar that touches the DLCS but closes below it).
4. Once you have got the DCC, drop down to say the H1 chart and look for a J16 type PA candle for your trigger to enter. The more confluences - (B)RN, Fibs, 365/150 EMAs with the PA candle, the better.
5. Once entered a trade, set your SL as determined earlier from the daily chart, which in this case will be below the low (plus some pips as buffer) of the daily PBT&CB candle. Also mark you FTA.
6. Then drop down again to the H1 and look for signatures to manage your trade. As long as hourly candles do not close above the DLCS, stay in trade.


Correct?
  • #480
  • Edited 6:56am Jul 30, 2013 6:31am | Edited 6:56am
Quoting danjuma
{quote} Thanks for the replies and charts, and please just to let you know I very much appreciate your time and patience. However, I am just getting slightly more confused. Outlined below once again is the way I understand it, trading daily charts for example. 1. Open a weekly chart, draw your HCR-LCS at recent consolidation box (this I am still not sure where the low or high will be as pointed out in your last chart I annotated) or the close of a recent swing point. 2. Go down to daily chart and do same as above. Then wait for a set-up on the daily...

Ok, just do this.

Open a weekly chart of EU and put these levels on it.
Then, watch what price does if it gets to these levels, on the lower tf.

Post your chart and state what you see happen. I and maybe Ghous, Donkey and JJ will go through it with you and explain what we see.
It is better to do this in real time as, time permits.

THIS IS NOT A TRADE RECOMMENDATION SO, ONLY DEMO ANYTHING YOU MAY OR MAY NOT SEE.

Just demo anything interesting you see, and post charts remembering, that the things you may or may not do wrong are more important than the things you do right.
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