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Wait, or you will be slaughtered!
- #5,821
- Jul 19, 2013 5:34am Jul 19, 2013 5:34am
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Lions don't bleat! | 2,874 Posts
- #5,823
- Jul 19, 2013 6:44am Jul 19, 2013 6:44am
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Lions don't bleat! | 2,874 Posts
Wait, or you will be slaughtered!
- #5,824
- Jul 19, 2013 6:46am Jul 19, 2013 6:46am
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Lions don't bleat! | 2,874 Posts
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Wait, or you will be slaughtered!
- #5,827
- Jul 20, 2013 4:51am Jul 20, 2013 4:51am
- Joined Jul 2010 | Status: Always manage your risk & leverage | 7,339 Posts
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- #5,828
- Jul 20, 2013 11:37am Jul 20, 2013 11:37am
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Lions don't bleat! | 2,874 Posts
Wait, or you will be slaughtered!
- #5,829
- Jul 20, 2013 2:10pm Jul 20, 2013 2:10pm
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Trader | 8,124 Posts
The world you desire can be won. It exists.. it is real.. it is possible..
- #5,831
- Edited Jul 21, 2013 2:20pm Jul 20, 2013 10:54pm | Edited Jul 21, 2013 2:20pm
- Joined Jul 2011 | Status: good | 4,295 Posts
I've often found myself looking at Elliot Wave because a lot of traders I discuss trade "harmonic patterns" but I'd be interested to hear from an elliot wave person why they do not just use the harmonic patterns which would be more specific and less vague from my point of view. Don't get angry, i'm being very much serious, what is the argument?
EW as a principle, seeks to understand market behaviour. RN Elliott published "The Wave Principle" in 1938 to document his finding that there are Fibonacci relationships between 'legs'/'waves' of price movement. HEW is a reinterpretation of RN Elliott's Wave Principle which states that impulse waves 1,3 and 5 unfold as 3-wave structures (as opposed to Elliott's 5-wave model). As @Mr Scott points out, EWP and HEW share the same Fibonacci relationships with regards to waves 2 and 4. HEW defines a system, based on Fib relationships, which (amongst others) identifies relationship patterns and/or equality in the subwaves of waves 2 and 4 that represent high probablity entry points and serve as a kind of confirmation that a corrective pattern has been completed.
However, EWP involves rules and guidelines which differ from HEW with regard to waves 1, 3 and 5. Specifically, the EWP notion of "common wave relationships" presents the analyst with guidelines for the Fibonacci relationships between these waves and their intervening corrections (waves 2 & 4). Depending upon one's adherence to one interpretation or the other, both EWP and HEW provide insight into where we are in the larger trend cycle and what expectations for ensuing PA are. From an EWP perspective there are, for example, defined Fib relationships between waves 1, 3 and 5 which allow the analyst to determine price target following the identification of waves 2 or 4 (which may be achieved via HEW or EWP or both). In my opinion both EWP and HEW represent consistent frameworks for analysing entire price histories and the interpretations do not appear to be mutually exclusive, although the reinterpretation of the subwaves of an impulsive as 3-wave structures seems unorthodox and may introduce inconsistency I am (as yet) unaware of.
As entry points the termination of waves 2 and 4 represent high probablility opportunities and are of great importance to both interpretations. There are a multitude of actionary and corrective wave structures as well as the notion of higher and lower degrees of waves (including time) about which additional information can be extracted using the EW principle.
Edit: the importance of Fibonacci relationships between preceding and successive waves is the basis of EWP and therefore of HEW. In this regard HEW is perhaps used more accurately and consistently, whereas there is an erroneous tendency amongst Elliott Wave counters to label waves without first confirming the Fib relationships between them - which is actually the basis of EWP - Fibs first, then the labels.
In short, HEW presents the EW analyst with an analytical tool for ascertaining whether a correction is a "Zig-Zag" where subwaves A and C are of equal length. This is an effective application of Fib relationships to price and it shows up the misguided practice of slapping a Fib tool between arbitrary swing highs and lows and then wondering if price will reverse at 38%, 50% or 68% retracement. Applying Fibs without a framework for analysis is like improvising jazz - but without rhythm
Edit2: When I first wrote this I was uninformed as to the true axioms of HEW. I have rewritten and edited so as not to misrepresent HEW.
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- #5,832
- Jul 20, 2013 11:15pm Jul 20, 2013 11:15pm
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Trader | 8,124 Posts
{quote} Hi snowmantum, EW as a principle, seeks to understand market behaviour. RN Elliott published "The Wave Principle" in 1938 in which he documented his finding that there are Fibonacci relationships between 'legs'/'waves' of price movement. This aspect is what HEW has focussed on, specifically in the relationships between the subwaves within corrective waves 2 and 4. As @Mr Scott points out these same Fibonacci relationships were later outlined in Prechter and Frost's "Elliott Wave Principle". HEW outlines a system, based on Fib relationships,...
Venzen, very nice job.Where have you been my friend? How have you been? Miss your charts.
The world you desire can be won. It exists.. it is real.. it is possible..
- #5,833
- Jul 20, 2013 11:36pm Jul 20, 2013 11:36pm
- Joined Jul 2011 | Status: good | 4,295 Posts
{quote}
Happy to have seen your post here.
Been out of the forums (and market) whilst changing brokers and coding my "Fibulator" - looking to pull market feeds directly into my own custom trading platform which auto-analyses from an EW/Fib perspective and generates charts with the kind of analysis I like to see. Previously, I found myself spending a lot of time with Fib tools and calculator in hand - to the extent that I was missing opportunities whilst trying to confirm them, so figured coding my own Fib tool was a good solution, but then how to generate my own charts? Coded that, but then where to get the intraday price feed? So I ended up coding my own platform which required a new broker (Interactive Brokers) who allow me to hook my platform into their system.
Almost done and then I should be posting more regularly!
venzen
cryptocurrency everytime
- #5,834
- Jul 20, 2013 11:46pm Jul 20, 2013 11:46pm
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Trader | 8,124 Posts
The world you desire can be won. It exists.. it is real.. it is possible..
- #5,835
- Jul 21, 2013 3:25am Jul 21, 2013 3:25am
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Lions don't bleat! | 2,874 Posts
{quote} Hi snowmantum, EW as a principle, seeks to understand market behaviour. RN Elliott published "The Wave Principle" in 1938 to document his finding that there are Fibonacci relationships between 'legs'/'waves' of price movement. The aspect that HEW focusses on, specifically, is the relationship between subwaves within corrective waves 2 and 4. As @Mr Scott points out these same Fibonacci relationships were later outlined in Prechter and Frost's "Elliott Wave Principle". HEW defines a system, based on Fib relationships, which identifies...
Excellent!
Wait, or you will be slaughtered!
- #5,836
- Jul 21, 2013 3:25am Jul 21, 2013 3:25am
- Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Lions don't bleat! | 2,874 Posts
{quote} Yes very good, that is why a butterfly can be such a potentially powerful reversal pattern. The Three Drives Pattern Although it was not specifically identified, one of the first references to a Three Drives pattern was outlined in Robert Prechter's book, "Elliot Wave Principle." He described the general nature of price action that possessed either a three-wave or a five-wave structure. Adapted from this principle, symmetrical price movements that possess identical Fibonacci projections in a 5- wave price structure constitute a Three Drives...
Excellent!
Wait, or you will be slaughtered!
- #5,837
- Jul 21, 2013 3:35am Jul 21, 2013 3:35am
- Joined Jul 2010 | Status: Always manage your risk & leverage | 7,339 Posts
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- #5,838
- Jul 21, 2013 3:36am Jul 21, 2013 3:36am
- Joined Jul 2010 | Status: Always manage your risk & leverage | 7,339 Posts
Hi s and i, Great discussion! Here is the [Ian Copsey] Harmonic Elliott Wave Structure that I am using. What patterns do you see? I can see the Bullish Bat at the bottom [with HEW internal counts]. HEW is based on specific measured moves, just like Harmonic Patterns. Therefore, HEW and Harmonic Patterns would / should also make a very good fit. I'll watch out for them, especially the H&S and how they form. Cheers, U2 {image}
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