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Vegas: "the house cares"

  • #21
  • Feb 26, 2006 8:40am Feb 26, 2006 8:40am
Hello guys,

I trade with gaincapital for some time and I have to say that I run in circles. I make $2-$3,000/month than I lose it, and the story goes. However I feel that I am the only one to blame when losing money. How any broker can move the market in order to rip me off. If the market starts moving against me, I immediately check other websites with live charts so it is most unlikely that I will see in my trade platform i.e. USD/CAD 1.1525/30 and on some other platform USD/CAD 1.1545/50 (if I am short for instance) at the same time. I believe that if I get lucky and catch this once (discrapency between my broker and some other brokers) a multi million $$$ law suit is much bigger threat that few bucks that we manage to earn. Imagine millions of traders suing their brokers for scam+ all the stress and so on. I stronbgly believe that whoever sees forex market as Vegas should go to Vegas or play poker online because I learned one thing:
You must trade with big leverage in order to stay on your feet. Opening account with $2,3 thousand will just make you lose your money. In my opinion minimum to open an account and trade conservativly (1-2 lots) is $12-$15,000.

Alex011
  • #22
  • Feb 26, 2006 11:47am Feb 26, 2006 11:47am
Quoting alex011
Hello guys,

I trade with gaincapital for some time and I have to say that I run in circles. I make $2-$3,000/month than I lose it, and the story goes. However I feel that I am the only one to blame when losing money. How any broker can move the market in order to rip me off. If the market starts moving against me, I immediately check other websites with live charts so it is most unlikely that I will see in my trade platform i.e. USD/CAD 1.1525/30 and on some other platform USD/CAD 1.1545/50 (if I am short for instance) at the same time. I believe that if I get lucky and catch this once (discrapency between my broker and some other brokers) a multi million $$$ law suit is much bigger threat that few bucks that we manage to earn. Imagine millions of traders suing their brokers for scam+ all the stress and so on. I stronbgly believe that whoever sees forex market as Vegas should go to Vegas or play poker online because I learned one thing:
You must trade with big leverage in order to stay on your feet. Opening account with $2,3 thousand will just make you lose your money. In my opinion minimum to open an account and trade conservativly (1-2 lots) is $12-$15,000.

Alex011
Hi Alex,
Your comments are related to one of the reasons I am not interested in Auto Trading any account.

For your consideration;
My Br_ker is the guy I am betting against/with. {Your Br_ker is the guy you are betting against/with.}

Let's say I'm Long Currency Pair XYZ and I'm willing to risk to yesterday's low, so I place a Stoploss @ Yesterday's Low. How stupid would I have to be to tell the guy I am betting against that if he can get the price to Yesterdays Low, He wins. Remember He is a Market Maker. He can say, XYZ now trades @ Yesterday's Low, Your Auto Stop has been executed. Thank you.
If I'm the only one who has my Stop set there, it may not be worth his while. But remember, He knows the area where the vast majority of those auto stops are, and, after all, He is not in business to make Me/You Money.

I don't mean to sound jaded but I do think it is a possibility and therefore, I'm not willing to take the risk.

Trading is work, Hard work. It requires attention to be successful.
Forex is a 24/6 Market. Trade when you can watch it.
  • #23
  • Feb 26, 2006 10:36pm Feb 26, 2006 10:36pm
Bemac,

What you are saying after decades of trading experience that the MM intentionally pushing price towards where most people put their stop.

How or what do you do to protect your account in a sudden sharp price movement when you dont have stop loss placed when you initiate trade.
  • #24
  • Feb 27, 2006 1:28pm Feb 27, 2006 1:28pm
I'm just a young guy, new to FOREX. I have an opinion on this, I do not present this as fact:

The market is made up of banks, hedge funds, commercial importers/exporters, etc, etc, and finally us little guys. The FOREX market is a 1 trillion dollar + per day extremely liquid market. We have no hope in hell of moving the market unless you're George Soros. Further I don't believe the market maker has that much leverage to move the market 50 pips whenever he wants.

I will admit that it would not be that difficult to move the market a "few" pips when the exchange rate is so close to where a bunch of stop losses are set at. It's hard to resist this temptation given that the broker has all the info.

However, stops and limits are scattered everywhere, so either way, something is being triggered and amplifies an initial mover's position (usually a bank).

Besides, the broker makes money anyways because of the spread. No matter what you have to close your position, and the broker picks up the spread. I think this is arbitrage?
  • #25
  • Feb 27, 2006 2:48pm Feb 27, 2006 2:48pm
azmi
Bemac,

What you are saying after decades of trading experience that the MM intentionally pushing price towards where most people put their stop.

No, I'm saying that the possibility exists. But think back and try to remember the last time you had a profitable trade because your SL was just a few pips beyond reach. Then ask yourself why you placed it there. Was it a defintave number like a Recent high or was it Recent High + 10 pips or so?


How or what do you do to protect your account in a sudden sharp price movement when you dont have stop loss placed when you initiate trade.

After having traded commodities where "Fast Markets" occur and continue with far more regularity than Forex [I don't consider 80 pips in 15 min a fast market. The cattle market opened Limit Up for weeks on end after the{singular} Canadian Mad cow], If It's against me, Get out at Market. [this may make you think about that little item known as "Traders Range"] In Commodities it also helps to have a very aggresive Pitman to make sure yours is one of the trades that gets filled.

I should explain that I do use stops on the occasions when I am staying in overnight but they would probably be considered quite liberal.
  • #26
  • Feb 27, 2006 5:10pm Feb 27, 2006 5:10pm
Bemac,

Interesting point of view. Never thought of it that way before.
  • #27
  • Feb 27, 2006 5:22pm Feb 27, 2006 5:22pm
I don't think the house or broker cares what you do - except when you first put a trade on. Then they try to maximize their profit.

I'm sure they have software to monitor what their clients are doing in general. But I never felt that they were trading against me in any way. Are they really going to run your stops, just so a bunch of clients lose money - the market has to get to that point first.

I don't care if they monitor my trades - as long as I get to make money.

There is no conspiracy going on to get you! They are trying to make money just like you. Actually, it is better for the broker if their clients make money.
  • #28
  • Jun 22, 2006 4:33am Jun 22, 2006 4:33am
Hi all,

I know someone who sits on his PC facing 45 others with them facing a huge projector following his every moves. When he makes, they all make, when he lost they all lost. He took 20% nett!

I heard last week his total pips was over 80,000 pips!
NOW USE YOUR IMIGINATION!

Thanks
Change Your Thinking. Change Your Life - JD
  • #29
  • Jun 25, 2006 7:01pm Jun 25, 2006 7:01pm
Quoting OrangeRoshan
Hi all,

I know someone who sits on his PC facing 45 others with them facing a huge projector following his every moves. When he makes, they all make, when he lost they all lost. He took 20% nett!

I heard last week his total pips was over 80,000 pips!
NOW USE YOUR IMIGINATION!

Thanks

Give me his phone number or website..
The future depends on what we do in the present.
  • #30
  • Jun 26, 2006 5:44am Jun 26, 2006 5:44am
Quoting compro99
Give me his phone number or website..
When you are in my home town & have blood relation with him, then only he will let you in. Maybe in a couple of years he will go public, still experimenting with his system.

He is leveraging efforts @the same time teaching young traders to get the feel of trading online. Of course @the same time making money.

Even tho im not related with him, but im helping him with his computer system using Microsoft live & other softwares. Stay tune, when he goes public, I will post the details, so that everyone can benefit & learn.
Change Your Thinking. Change Your Life - JD
  • #31
  • Jun 26, 2006 8:50am Jun 26, 2006 8:50am
Quoting Teddy
I don't think the house or broker cares what you do - except when you first put a trade on. Then they try to maximize their profit.

I'm sure they have software to monitor what their clients are doing in general. But I never felt that they were trading against me in any way. Are they really going to run your stops, just so a bunch of clients lose money - the market has to get to that point first.

I don't care if they monitor my trades - as long as I get to make money.

There is no conspiracy going on to get you! They are trying to make money just like you. Actually, it is better for the broker if their clients make money.
Hi Teddy
I am fairly new to Forex and I've been following these posts with interest and the more I read the more exposed I feel.
Don't forget these brokers are acting like bookmakers, you back a horse to win (for example going long EURUSD) you place your bet with the broker (who, like a bookie is YOUR market maker) of course it's in his interest for you to lose, he is part of the Zero Game. If you've gone long someone has to go short, and vice-versa.
Depending on your trade, you're 2-6 pips down before you start, they either take it as you open or when you close.
But it seems that may not be enough for them, and don't forget you're getting your prices some way behind the REAL market.
I suppose it's possible for them to realise the market is about to turn so they clip your few pips (and probably 100s of others), bank the money and then re-use that to follow the direction you had hoped to profit from originally.
At my level, while I don't want to lose my fund, I will be more cautious before trading as I've been thinking along Scott's way of maybe having a mental stop loss and closing the trade when it hits it, rather than posting a fixed SL at entry.
I'll need more discipline before I do that with large trades so for now I keep the widest SL I can run and only trade the very best setups.

Pete
  • #32
  • Jun 30, 2006 9:52am Jun 30, 2006 9:52am
Trade against the trend and wait for the retrace to take profit.

DON'T go all in, stager your entries against the trend. (Money/Risk management is KEY here)

If price is rising sell evey x amount of pips and vice versa.

On retrace take profit of x amount on every order.

Does it take alot of money to trade this way? Yes.

If you want to win 100% of your trades you have to be able to hold the losers until they become winners. MM's have the money to do this. They can hold a loser for months at a time, even years.

You may now proceed with bashing this post.
  • #33
  • Jun 30, 2006 11:42am Jun 30, 2006 11:42am
Vegas said it best:
"your ticket on the Titanic is in the mail"

Quoting dav7612r
Trade against the trend and wait for the retrace to take profit.

DON'T go all in, stager your entries against the trend. (Money/Risk management is KEY here)

If price is rising sell evey x amount of pips and vice versa.

On retrace take profit of x amount on every order.

Does it take alot of money to trade this way? Yes.

If you want to win 100% of your trades you have to be able to hold the losers until they become winners. MM's have the money to do this. They can hold a loser for months at a time, even years.

You may now proceed with bashing this post.
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #34
  • Last Post: Jul 1, 2006 2:06pm Jul 1, 2006 2:06pm
Quoting mrgreen
Vegas said it best:
"your ticket on the Titanic is in the mail"
Don't get me wrong here. I personally would not trade this way. I have seen it done, and done very successfully. That's all im saying.

The old saying what goes up must come down, and vice versa is very true.
Try it on demo if you like. Enter with small lot's at the reversal and as price moves in a specific direction gradually increase the lot size every x amount of pips as price moves. Again when price reverses hang on to your most recent order until the next reversal. More or less you'll end up dumping the oldest orders at the next reveral point for a nominal loss but the larger orders entered closer to the next reveral will make up for it.

Maybe this doesnt make sense and needs a specific set of rules laid out but beleive me, it can work. Is it risky? hell yeah it is, i never said it wasn't. I'm sure it doent fit the trading style of 99% of traders out there either.
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