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Coming back after account blow-up

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 5:40pm Jul 12, 2013 5:15pm | Edited 5:40pm
I fell down the Rabbit hole. Blew up an account.
Any suggestions? Or programs?

Did all the classic mistakes.
Going to reWrite my rules. Rules of engagement. Exits. Etc.
Going backtest minimum my 100x with notes to see if any nuances I need to tweak.
Part of problem was conflicting trading styles on same account. As in using momentum(breakout) and value(pullbacks) trades at the same time.
I "Chased" a big loss that I incurred from being overleveraged, as most of my trades were actually profitable, but I failed to EXIT according to my backtested and proven target levels.
Ultimately I think what did me in was I chased my losses(using pullback targets on breakout trades), wanting to make loss back in one trade, which is not how my systems were designed and proven. After a big 'mistake' like being overleveraged I plan to realign myself. Determine what occurred, differentiate if it was a "mistake" or "market occurance". Will regularly withdraw and if needed refund account to keep at same monetary level, which helps regulate risk, chasing and other variables I feel were a detriment.

I'm going to go back through VanTharps and Steenbargers works, redocument my parameters and any other related exercises. Also going do some regular mental performance work with a psychologist.
  • #2
  • Jul 12, 2013 6:10pm Jul 12, 2013 6:10pm
First you need to select the time frame you are comfortable trading.Then pick ONE pair you want to trade.Watch that pairs price movement and get a feel for it.Keep it simple,trade entry from a smaller time frame and only trade with the trend from a higher time frame.Open only ONE position until you have traded and won for a year.Limit indicators to two or three.Don't think so much,ACT.Don't be greedy.
  • #3
  • Jul 12, 2013 7:29pm Jul 12, 2013 7:29pm
Take a long break.
  • #4
  • Jul 13, 2013 1:44am Jul 13, 2013 1:44am
Easy. Don't use a live account. I guarantee you every one you make is going to blow up until you really understand what's going on.
  • #5
  • Jul 13, 2013 2:06am Jul 13, 2013 2:06am
I fell down the Rabbit hole. Blew up an account. Any suggestions?
==> do not use leverage

Or programs?
==> any strategy, no leverage

Did all the classic mistakes. Going to reWrite my rules. Rules of engagement. Exits. Etc. Going backtest minimum my 100x with notes to see if any nuances I need to tweak.
==> rules are useless

Part of problem was conflicting trading styles on same account. As in using momentum(breakout) and value(pullbacks) trades at the same time.
== sounds valid to me. Your problem is not the strategy (anything works some of the time)

I "Chased" a big loss that I incurred from being overleveraged, as most of my trades were actually profitable, but I failed to EXIT according to my backtested and proven target levels. Ultimately I think what did me in was I chased my losses(using pullback targets on breakout trades), wanting to make loss back in one trade, which is not how my systems were designed and proven. After a big 'mistake' like being overleveraged I plan to realign myself. Determine what occurred, differentiate if it was a "mistake" or "market occurance". Will regularly withdraw and if needed refund account to keep at same monetary level, which helps regulate risk, chasing and other variables I feel were a detriment.
==> do not use leverage

I'm going to go back through VanTharps and Steenbargers works, redocument my parameters and any other related exercises. Also going do some regular mental performance work with a psychologist.
==> waste of time and money
  • #6
  • Jul 13, 2013 2:26am Jul 13, 2013 2:26am
Hi Pregrine,

Your case is not something new, even if you take long break and come back with fresh rules and mind there is no guarantee the same thing will not happen again.

Discipline easier said than done.

You are a member of FF since 2007, and you are not a forex newbie.

Try to find out a method to keep you out of trading at the first occurrence of abnormal behavior, (may be anything like changing stop loss, position sizing, already lost x% for the day, etc..)

Check out this thread which may be of helpful to you.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=5720088
Weigh well output the loss and gain And proper action ascertain
  • #7
  • Jul 13, 2013 3:46am Jul 13, 2013 3:46am
So many traders constantly blow accounts,isnt it maby true that some people just cannot master trading and fail to accept it ? Im not referring to peregrine and I wish you all the best - all traders should make profits.
A to B to A
  • #8
  • Jul 13, 2013 4:18am Jul 13, 2013 4:18am
Quoting Mingary
==> do not use leverage Or programs? ==> any strategy, no leverage I feel were a detriment. ==> do not use leverage
==> rules are useless
@mingary

Do you realize that when you keep saying "no leverage" or "do not use leverage" you are basically telling him and others here to trade by putting up the full amount. Therefore, even if he wants to trade one minilot, he needs min 12K in his account, which is beyond the reach of most traders here. Secondly, without some kind of strategy, a trader will lose even if he could afford no leverage. What you really should be saying is "dont OVER-leverage". If rules are useless, then you have to adopt a random entry method, which is nothing but gambling.
In other news: A ranger was trapped between a bull and a bear
  • #9
  • Jul 13, 2013 4:32am Jul 13, 2013 4:32am
Quoting digiff
{quote} @mingary Do you realize that when you keep saying "no leverage" or "do not use leverage" you are basically telling him and others here to trade by putting up the full amount. Therefore, even if he wants to trade one minilot, he needs min 12K in his account, which is beyond the reach of most traders here. Secondly, without some kind of strategy, a trader will lose even if he could afford no leverage. What you really should be saying is "dont OVER-leverage". If rules are useless, then you have to adopt a random entry method, which is...
Hi,

Yes, don't over-leverage is more correct. Account allows 1:50 leverage but I always use 1:1.
Also no rules, but not random either, more like common sense.... it's the money not the rules that matter.
  • #10
  • Jul 13, 2013 11:52am Jul 13, 2013 11:52am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Hi, Yes, don't over-leverage is more correct. Account allows 1:50 leverage but I always use 1:1. Also no rules, but not random either, more like common sense.... it's the money not the rules that matter.
Leverage is over-hyped and largely irrelevant as long as you limit your position exposure with a stop loss order. I use 50:1 because it allows me to open other positions on new pairs without all of my account being eaten up by margin by a couple trades.
  • #11
  • Jul 13, 2013 11:57am Jul 13, 2013 11:57am
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} Leverage is over-hyped and largely irrelevant as long as you limit your position exposure with a stop loss order. I use 50:1 because it allows me to open other positions on new pairs without all of my account being eaten up by margin by a couple trades.
I use 1:1 on a 1:50 account. No SL.

So there.. your turn.
  • #12
  • Jul 13, 2013 12:00pm Jul 13, 2013 12:00pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I use 1:1 on a 1:50 account. No SL. So there.. your turn.
"No SL" says it all with you and why you're a consistent loser. How's that for my turn?
  • #13
  • Jul 13, 2013 12:04pm Jul 13, 2013 12:04pm
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} "No SL" says it all with you and why you're a consistent loser. How's that for my turn?
Stop losses are for sissies.

Your turn.
  • #14
  • Jul 13, 2013 12:06pm Jul 13, 2013 12:06pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Stop losses are for sissies. Your turn.
I don't care, I make money because I know where the orders are. You're too interested in winning to turn a profit. Bye. (:
  • #15
  • Jul 13, 2013 12:08pm Jul 13, 2013 12:08pm
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} I don't care, I make money because I know where the orders are. You're too interested in winning to turn a profit. Bye. (:
Ok then. Glad to hear that you finally found your orders.
Bye (:
  • #16
  • Jul 13, 2013 4:19pm Jul 13, 2013 4:19pm
Quoting peregrine
I fell down the Rabbit hole. Blew up an account. Any suggestions? Or programs? Did all the classic mistakes. Going to reWrite my rules. Rules of engagement. Exits. Etc. Going backtest minimum my 100x with notes to see if any nuances I need to tweak. Part of problem was conflicting trading styles on same account. As in using momentum(breakout) and value(pullbacks) trades at the same time. I "Chased" a big loss that I incurred from being overleveraged, as most of my trades were actually profitable, but I failed to EXIT according to my backtested...
I was in the same boat as you a few years ago where I didnt blow up an account but i was scared out of the market when I lost about 85% of my profit. What I learned is that if you are having trouble with your trades try a longer term time frame, smaller positions and work your way up, dont get into a position just to get into something. It all takes time and patience. No one can become an amazing trader overnight, just develop a plan and stick with it.
  • #17
  • Jul 13, 2013 4:30pm Jul 13, 2013 4:30pm
Trade long term.
When Scalpers win, I lose and Vice varsa...
  • #18
  • Jul 13, 2013 8:16pm Jul 13, 2013 8:16pm
Quoting peregrine
I fell down the Rabbit hole. Blew up an account. Any suggestions? Or programs? Did all the classic mistakes. Going to reWrite my rules. Rules of engagement. Exits. Etc. Going backtest minimum my 100x with notes to see if any nuances I need to tweak. Part of problem was conflicting trading styles on same account. As in using momentum(breakout) and value(pullbacks) trades at the same time. I "Chased" a big loss that I incurred from being overleveraged, as most of my trades were actually profitable, but I failed to EXIT according to my backtested...

Looks like you having troubles with trading psychology and risk management.

You "chased" = mistake in trading psychology
You "have mostly profitable trades", meaning your win ratio is probably more than 50% and then one trade destroys your account. This is an risk management issue.

Bottom line
1. Re-visit your trading psychology principles
2. Re-visit your risk management perimeters

Trading = 70% psychology, 20% risk management, 10% strategy.

If you have these two figured out, there is no way you should be blowing up any accounts...

Good luck.
Trade what you see, not what you think!
  • #19
  • Jul 13, 2013 8:38pm Jul 13, 2013 8:38pm
Quoting beantrader
First you need to select the time frame you are comfortable trading.Then pick ONE pair you want to trade.Watch that pairs price movement and get a feel for it.Keep it simple,trade entry from a smaller time frame and only trade with the trend from a higher time frame.Open only ONE position until you have traded and won for a year.Limit indicators to two or three.Don't think so much,ACT.Don't be greedy.

entry from a smaller time frame= how ?
only trade with the trend from a higher time frame=how to define a trend ?
thx.
if there is something you should keep secret,simply just save it,, so, just
  • #20
  • Jul 13, 2013 8:42pm Jul 13, 2013 8:42pm
Quoting Dopey
Take a long break.
yes and go search a common job
and do a demo in a spare time
if there is something you should keep secret,simply just save it,, so, just
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