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95% traders go broke, only 5% survive

  • #101
  • Jul 4, 2013 12:13pm Jul 4, 2013 12:13pm
Quoting jmtini
{quote} You have a point but there are many forex "seasoned pros" that have have lost (and are continuing to lose) heavily too. The problem as I keep saying is not where but when. Looking at the attached GBPNZD chart illustrates my point. The yellow circled areas show the wrong time to open a trade whereas the white circled areas show the right time to open a trade (a sell trade obviously - quite a few people open buy trades in this kind of situation - kamikaze!!). Is it possible to avoid opening a trade at the wrong time and open it at the right...
thats a m1 chart, lol. my advice: forget about daytrading. nothing good will ever come out of it.
  • #102
  • Jul 4, 2013 12:28pm Jul 4, 2013 12:28pm
Quoting Myo
{quote} thats a m1 chart, lol. my advice: forget about daytrading. nothing good will ever come out of it.
Each to their own, but I've made more money day trading than I have trading longer term, I find speculating on a longer term movement much harder than speculating on a temporary retracement back from an area intra day.
  • #103
  • Jul 4, 2013 3:58pm Jul 4, 2013 3:58pm
Quoting Myo
{quote} thats a m1 chart, lol. my advice: forget about daytrading. nothing good will ever come out of it.

(chart removed!) Yes many don't like the 1 min chart. I use to be one of them! Now I only use the 1 min chart (zoomed out of course) because as GDR3K rightly says it's much easier to spot intraday movement - I hate big draw downs - so does everyone - and on the 1 min chart trend change can be spotted so much sooner.

The other great thing about the 1 min chart is that it gives far more opportunities for setting trades on minor retracements when in a strongly trending situation (like today on GBP/AU/US/NZ)
  • #104
  • Jul 4, 2013 5:58pm Jul 4, 2013 5:58pm
Actually nearly 60% of interactive brokers forex accounts made a profit last year. That's not bad.
  • #105
  • Jul 5, 2013 3:32pm Jul 5, 2013 3:32pm
The thing that worries me is that most people here actually agree that it's very hard to have a nice profit every month. I thought that on this forum you guys would be bragging about who earns more.


Quoting tandh
Actually nearly 60% of interactive brokers forex accounts made a profit last year. That's not bad.
Are you a broker?
  • #106
  • Jul 6, 2013 8:16am Jul 6, 2013 8:16am
{quote} Are you a broker? [/quote]No, I'm not a broker, but brokerages are required to report their accounts every year. How many are profitable and such. I just give the IB example but they have a 10K minimum. The smaller entry brokers have a lot of newbies who burn out their 50 dollars.

The 95% lose is often used around the internet. That may be true with leveraged day traders, but it's certainly not true with swing traders, long term fundamental traders, or even forex traders.
  • #107
  • Jul 6, 2013 11:09am Jul 6, 2013 11:09am
Quoting Vitez
The thing that worries me is that most people here actually agree that it's very hard to have a nice profit every month. I thought that on this forum you guys would be bragging about who earns more. {quote} Are you a broker?


Anyone who brags that they make huge amounts of money every month is probably a liar. Due to the often random nature of price movement it's very difficult to consistently win. It is really so important to concentrate on pips rather then equity. That's really what MM is all about.
  • #108
  • Jul 6, 2013 2:11pm Jul 6, 2013 2:11pm
Quoting jmtini
{quote} Anyone who brags that they make huge amounts of money every month is probably a liar. Due to the often random nature of price movement it's very difficult to consistently win. It is really so important to concentrate on pips rather then equity. That's really what MM is all about.
Shouldn't say bragging but more like competing...for sure didn't expect so many threads like this one!

I understand it's off topic but can you please explain what concentrating on pips vs equity means? I though it's all about risk:reward ratio.
  • #109
  • Jul 6, 2013 2:58pm Jul 6, 2013 2:58pm
Quoting Vitez
{quote} Shouldn't say bragging but more like competing...for sure didn't expect so many threads like this one! I understand it's off topic but can you please explain what concentrating on pips vs equity means? I though it's all about risk:reward ratio.

Please don't think I was criticising you in any way. Your comment was very relevant.

What I'm trying to put across is really the mental side and importance of that old but true saying: "let your good trades run" . It's really simple. If one trades an amount (let's say 10 cents a pip - micro lot) that one is completely happy with then one is more likely to let the trade run - why? Well because say 40 pips is only $4,00 so it BUILDS CONFIDENCE in a trader to allow trades to run maybe into the hundreds of pips. That's the secret to success - really is!
I'm attaching GBPUSD 1hr chart from Friday which shows clearly that if one opened a sell trade early Thursday morning (European session) one would be sitting with over 150 pips so far! Using a simple vegas tunnel method can generate literally thousands of pips in a month.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gbpusdh1.png Size: 40 KB
  • #110
  • Jul 6, 2013 5:16pm Jul 6, 2013 5:16pm
It is widely known that over 90% of novice traders lose there entire investment however we really need to identify how long it takes them to lose there money!!

Most novice traders are probably up after the first few months and say they are profitable, however what is their situation in a years time.......who knows
  • #111
  • Jul 6, 2013 5:56pm Jul 6, 2013 5:56pm
Quoting jmtini
{quote} Please don't think I was criticising you in any way. Your comment was very relevant. What I'm trying to put across is really the mental side and importance of that old but true saying: "let your good trades run" . It's really simple. If one trades an amount (let's say 10 cents a pip - micro lot) that one is completely happy with then one is more likely to let the trade run - why? Well because say 40 pips is only $4,00 so it BUILDS CONFIDENCE in a trader to allow trades to run maybe into the hundreds of pips. That's the secret to success...
Sure, I don't.

Ok so let it ride ok but people know about this rule and IMO mostly they follow it via a system..so you are saying that traders loose the courage to win because losing trades kill confidence?

IMO threads like this are great I'll sure reread all the comments.

One thing is for sure IMO: if you can't make money in demo you for sure won't with real account.
  • #112
  • Jul 7, 2013 1:54am Jul 7, 2013 1:54am
Quoting Vitez
{quote} Sure, I don't. Ok so let it ride ok but people know about this rule and IMO mostly they follow it via a system..so you are saying that traders loose the courage to win because losing trades kill confidence? IMO threads like this are great I'll sure reread all the comments. One thing is for sure IMO: if you can't make money in demo you for sure won't with real account.

Yes that's more or less what I'm saying especially if the trader has used high leverage and taken a big hit! Novice traders have to realise that the forex market is NOT a level playing field. Brokers/MM's/large players are spending much of their day gunning for small fry stop losses and buy/sell stops. When you see your stop taken and price action immediately shooting off in the other direction do you REALLY think that it was simply bad luck? Or when your buy order TP is say 1.500 and price action reaches .1.4999 before going all the way back down to take out your SL - (terribly frustrating!) - that's what they are doing for a living! Next thing is one goes higher leverage and takes a high risk trade to make up one's losses and whoops - there goes your trading account. Happens all the time (has happened to me a few times!)
  • #113
  • Jul 7, 2013 4:03am Jul 7, 2013 4:03am
Quoting jmtini
{quote} Please don't think I was criticising you in any way. Your comment was very relevant. What I'm trying to put across is really the mental side and importance of that old but true saying: "let your good trades run" . It's really simple. If one trades an amount (let's say 10 cents a pip - micro lot) that one is completely happy with then one is more likely to let the trade run - why? Well because say 40 pips is only $4,00 so it BUILDS CONFIDENCE in a trader to allow trades to run maybe into the hundreds of pips. That's the secret to success...
This is the best comment and best advice to all novice traders out there.1. NEVER go with full lots (unless you have a 7 figure account), or if you're willing to gamble! 2. Always go for long term trends and trades where you're not affected by market makers, stop hunting and etc, etc...
  • #114
  • Jul 7, 2013 9:48am Jul 7, 2013 9:48am
Quoting backinblackl
{quote} This is the best comment and best advice to all novice traders out there.1. NEVER go with full lots (unless you have a 7 figure account), or if you're willing to gamble! 2. Always go for long term trends and trades where you're not affected by market makers, stop hunting and etc, etc...

Couldn't have put it better!!

I could just add that (in my view) it's vital not to overtrade. In order to accomplish that probably better for novice traders to avoid the the shorter term charts (1 min/5 min/15min) because although they might offer up more trading signals, a large proportion will be false breakouts leading to losing trades. Again lets look at the GBPUSD 1 hour chart (using the vegas tunnel strategy) and go back a few days to when the uptrend was fading. I've circled 3 breakouts which one would have traded with this particular system (using 3rd fib value generated by the tunnel). That's just 3 trades in 5 days - thus one cannot be overtrading. Of the three, one trade would have resulted in a minor 20 pip loss, one trade would have stopped out at BE. The last trade around an 80 pip gain - nett gain 60 pips in a messy period.

I am NOT touting any particular strategy/system - just trying to illustrate the value of trading less to gain more!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gbpusdh1.png Size: 53 KB
  • #115
  • Jul 7, 2013 11:42am Jul 7, 2013 11:42am
Quoting jmtini
{quote} Please don't think I was criticising you in any way. Your comment was very relevant. What I'm trying to put across is really the mental side and importance of that old but true saying: "let your good trades run" . It's really simple. If one trades an amount (let's say 10 cents a pip - micro lot) that one is completely happy with then one is more likely to let the trade run - why? Well because say 40 pips is only $4,00 so it BUILDS CONFIDENCE in a trader to allow trades to run maybe into the hundreds of pips. That's the secret to success...

100% agree
To add more to your post one can add more orders as the original becomes profitable and eventually once in profit to move the stops to protect profits one can add more orders so 10c will become 50 or 1dollar a pip depending on your account.
Money is on longer time frame and you must develop sense of patience.Patience to get into a great trade and patience to allow it run in profits.
Think of surfing analogy -there are only some good waves to ride rest are to be avoided but unfortunately they are traders who take every small ripple and eventually exhaust themselves to death.
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #116
  • Jul 7, 2013 11:58am Jul 7, 2013 11:58am
Topic might have moved on, but.......


I'm 1 of the few, that openly admits to not being profitable as yet, I have periods of being, but not long term, although working on it hard and expect to beat it, if not with this method then pretty soon as getting better, slowly, kinda maybe, kinda hopefully.

But I actually cop flack from Troll's and they start asking me to prove it, errrrr WTF especially when I shoot down there method as utter BS akin to reading tea leaves and ask them to prove there profitable, so far no takers interestingly.

People who can't make a profit, teaching others to trade like them to make themselves feel better and whatever and we wonder why 97% fail.

Allowing for Profitable people don't hang around on Forum's it's likely 99.5% of people aren't profitable on here.

My ownly confirmed profitable person is GDR, so that's most of the 0.5% gone and the rest are liars.


In the immortal words of House MD, " Everybody Lies "
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #117
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:18pm Jul 7, 2013 12:18pm
Quoting Turveyd
Topic might have moved on, but....... I'm 1 of the few, that openly admits to not being profitable as yet, I have periods of being, but not long term, although working on it hard and expect to beat it, if not with this method then pretty soon as getting better, slowly, kinda maybe, kinda hopefully. But I actually cop flack from Troll's and they start asking me to prove it, errrrr WTF especially when I shoot down there method as utter BS akin to reading tea leaves and ask them to prove there profitable, so far no takers interestingly. People who...

Lot of guys are profitable here at FF. I know some of them personally.Just becouse they don't post their results does not mean they are not making money.
Here is my micro live account results since open 3months ego
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture.PNG Size: 23 KB
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #118
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:38pm Jul 7, 2013 12:38pm
Quoting Turveyd
Topic might have moved on, but....... I'm 1 of the few, that openly admits to not being profitable as yet, I have periods of being, but not long term, although working on it hard and expect to beat it, if not with this method then pretty soon as getting better, slowly, kinda maybe, kinda hopefully. But I actually cop flack from Troll's and they start asking me to prove it, errrrr WTF especially when I shoot down there method as utter BS akin to reading tea leaves and ask them to prove there profitable, so far no takers interestingly. People who...

I looked at your profile and perhaps the clue is here why you are not profitable
"Back to Intraday, well trend trading with MA's but on a M1 chart"
Traders trading 1min chart are often victim of simple market randomness.
Think of highway.You are in the middle of it and you are trying to dodge cars coming at you and you might doge few but will get hit over and over until you got no more strength to stand up..
Now go up the hill and look at the same highway from safe distance.Not only you see the road clearer but you can see accidents ahead as well.
Did not mean to preach you.All the respects
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #119
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:39pm Jul 7, 2013 12:39pm
Quoting Davit
{quote} Lot of guys are profitable here at FF. I know some of them personally.Just becouse they don't post their results does not mean they are not making money. Here is my micro live account results since open 3months ego {image}
Nice work!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #120
  • Jul 7, 2013 12:41pm Jul 7, 2013 12:41pm
Quoting Davit
{quote} I looked at your profile and perhaps the clue is here why you are not profitable "Back to Intraday, well trend trading with MA's but on a M1 chart" Traders trading 1min chart are often victim of simple market randomness. Think of highway.You are in the middle of it and you are trying to dodge cars coming at you and you might doge few but will get hit over and over until you got no more strength to stand up.. Now go up the hill and look at the same highway from safe distance.Not only you see the road clearer but you can see accidents ahead...

Slowed down to M5 recently, 30pip SL's slowed it down, still intraday but getting much better testing results and so far trades, only had 1 week Live so far, so early days.

10SL's work in theory, but not in practice sadly.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
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