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Let's Trade Options

  • #141
  • May 20, 2013 1:48pm May 20, 2013 1:48pm
Tempted to take the TLT $115 PUT OPTION FOR FRIDAYS EXPIRATION

13/14c or so at present, TLT price is 116.92, probably wait near closing to see where it is trading at

iShares Barclays 20+ Year Treas Bond (TLT)

-NYSEArca

116.92 http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/fi/03rd/down_r.gif 0.14(0.12%) 2:45PM EDT - Nasdaq Real Time Price



TLT May 2013 115.000 put (TLT130524P00115000)

-OPR

0.13 http://l.yimg.com/os/mit/media/m/bas...nt-1093278.png 0.09(40.91%) 2:19PM EDT
  • #142
  • May 20, 2013 3:03pm May 20, 2013 3:03pm
Quoting Cecil Gee
Tempted to take the TLT $115 PUT OPTION FOR FRIDAYS EXPIRATION 13/14c or so at present,
so, get in at 14c, collapse to 3-4c by Friday?
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #143
  • May 20, 2013 3:05pm May 20, 2013 3:05pm
Quoting Cecil Gee
Tempted to take the TLT $115 PUT OPTION FOR FRIDAYS EXPIRATION 13/14c or so at present, TLT price is 116.92, probably wait near closing to see where it is trading at iShares Barclays 20+ Year Treas Bond (TLT) -NYSEArca 116.92 {image} 0.14(0.12%) 2:45PM EDT - Nasdaq Real Time Price TLT May 2013 115.000 put (TLT130524P00115000) -OPR 0.13 {image} 0.09(40.91%) 2:19PM EDT
i missed out the tlt trade as i saw the option at 23c it had gained 10c, to me it will give more but my risk also increased so its a missed opportunity, closing price of TLT was $116.92.

lets see where it will be tomorrow

TLT May 2013 115.000 put (TLT130524P00115000)

-OPR

0.23 http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/fi/03rd/up_g.gif 0.01(4.55%) 3:34PM EDT
  • #144
  • May 20, 2013 3:09pm May 20, 2013 3:09pm
Quoting The Fool
{quote} so, get in at 14c, collapse to 3-4c by Friday?
T.F. gold had a haed bounce exactly what you were looking, good work.

IAU's must be doing nicely
  • #145
  • May 20, 2013 3:16pm May 20, 2013 3:16pm
Quoting The Fool
{quote} so, get in at 14c, collapse to 3-4c by Friday?
TLT being such a volatile stock its mostly better to see the closing price especially so early in the week
  • #146
  • May 20, 2013 3:53pm May 20, 2013 3:53pm
hey guys,

I would suggest you to be aware of options, especially if you have a limited knowledge of it (at least from some post I've had a feeling some people have).

Market makers charge you with spreads / vol bumps (e.g. you pay more for an option than its real value) so you are playing against the odds - ofcourse the same works with spreads in Spot market, but 1 pip spread for eurusd is still better than spread in options (even for liquid listed single stocks / indexes). In my opinion, playing directional bets in options is just a waste of time, because you have a spot market where you can express your views on the underlying with smaller transaction costs.

If you perfectly understand options (e.g. not only from reading books for beginners like Nattenberg (which is actually very good book)) you can possibly trade volatility, vol skew / convexity and term structure which is the best way how to express your overall view on the underlying and market conditions. I mean, sorry maybe I am too sceptic and all of you make money with it (probably not) ...

I would definitely suggest you to bid vols at historicaly low levels and play long gamma positions (be very cautious about short gamma/vols) and not touch things like going long 1 week almost ATM option (unless you expect the sharp move in next few hours / next day) because you get very short theta which will eat your premium in next 2-3 days. Just stick with basics and learn how to trade vol surface, that's the point where options trading starts to be interesting (and actually makes sense)

Without superb understanding you are just running around blind and relying on short term luck ...
  • #147
  • May 20, 2013 4:03pm May 20, 2013 4:03pm
Quoting katrooo
Just stick with basics and learn how to trade vol surface, that's the point where options trading starts to be interesting (and actually makes sense) Without superb understanding you are just running around blind and relying on short term luck ...
As we say here in Paradise, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #148
  • May 20, 2013 4:06pm May 20, 2013 4:06pm
Quoting The Fool
{quote} As we say here in Paradise, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
mhmmm

flat today... no new positions entered...

scanning for opportunities though...

u seeing anything TF?
  • #149
  • May 20, 2013 4:11pm May 20, 2013 4:11pm
Quoting Wulfgar
{quote} mhmmm flat today... no new positions entered... scanning for opportunities though... u seeing anything TF?
Hey Bud, I just throw a dart and it always hits something thats is going up near vertical for weeks on end. I'm like frkn Jesse Livermore.

No, though - slogging thru the day job and need some night hours to find the next goldmine.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #150
  • May 20, 2013 4:24pm May 20, 2013 4:24pm
Quoting The Fool
{quote} Hey Bud, I just throw a dart and it always hits something thats is going up near vertical for weeks on end. I'm like frkn Jesse Livermore. No, though - slogging thru the day job and need some night hours to find the next goldmine.
Jesse f'ckin Livermore is right

cool man, I post up if anything catches my eye

I def think all that gamma expiry week stuff CG does is pretty cool.... but Im not smart enough for it...

def lookin like UNG has some pretty cheap premiums for some call Leap options... looking at just buying some ATM Jan 14 Calls right around current price...

cant beat that suckers upside potential
  • #151
  • May 20, 2013 5:31pm May 20, 2013 5:31pm
Quoting Wulfgar
def lookin like UNG has some pretty cheap premiums for some call Leap options... looking at just buying some ATM Jan 14 Calls right around current price... cant beat that suckers upside potential
Ohno here I been thinkin natgas would slide into the summer. So the LNG export deal just come out is all hat & no cattle, imo, but that might not keep UNG from blowin up.

If you want to try a week's end ride both natgas and crude can move alot after the Wed-Thurs crude inventories & nat gas injection numbers come out. Both of them are pretty fickle, though, guys devote all their time to one or the other & are still wrong half the time. Just too many m/l random variables.

I like gambling on the hydrocarbons but I never bet more than a day's pay.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #152
  • May 20, 2013 6:29pm May 20, 2013 6:29pm
Quoting katrooo
hey guys, I would suggest you to be aware of options, especially if you have a limited knowledge of it (at least from some post I've had a feeling some people have). Market makers charge you with spreads / vol bumps (e.g. you pay more for an option than its real value) so you are playing against the odds - ofcourse the same works with spreads in Spot market, but 1 pip spread for eurusd is still better than spread in options (even for liquid listed single stocks / indexes). In my opinion, playing directional bets in options is just a waste of time,...
Katroo, lot of what you have written has merit but in my opinion options over the last two years options have evolved so much with the introduction of weekly and now MINI options on some stocks, its a much better market to trade. Yes one must understand the spreads and commission costs before entering a trade. Many stock these days have a penny wide spread and as for commissions thats for people to negotiate with there brokers

More impotantly a trader must understand there strategy they are implementing and KNOW there RIGHT or OBLIGATION if a trade goes wrong!!

I hear many many people say directional plays are a waste of time and all that happens is the options expire worthless, to me this is incorrect these days because weekly options are already priced in a way where there isn't much time value to decay, the game has moved on. 3-4 years ago i would of agreed with you on that.
  • #153
  • May 20, 2013 6:35pm May 20, 2013 6:35pm
Quoting Wulfgar
{quote} Jesse f'ckin Livermore is right cool man, I post up if anything catches my eye I def think all that gamma expiry week stuff CG does is pretty cool.... but Im not smart enough for it... def lookin like UNG has some pretty cheap premiums for some call Leap options... looking at just buying some ATM Jan 14 Calls right around current price... cant beat that suckers upside potential
Thanks for the kind comment wulfgar, i'm gonna pm some stuff to you and T.F. of what you need to consider when buying these type of options because with respect some options mentioned i know will not have a chance of acheiving the goals set
  • #154
  • May 20, 2013 6:50pm May 20, 2013 6:50pm
Quoting Cecil Gee
{quote} Thanks for the kind comment wulfgar, i'm gonna pm some stuff to you and T.F. of what you need to consider when buying these type of options because with respect some options mentioned i know will not have a chance of acheiving the goals set
send it on amigo & thanks in advance. I will just be papertrading the scalps anyway until I build up my equities some more.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #155
  • May 20, 2013 6:54pm May 20, 2013 6:54pm
Quoting The Fool
{quote} send it on amigo & thanks in advance. I will just be papertrading the scalps anyway until I build up my equities some more.
first T.F. you don't need lots of capital for what I do, you can do this stuff with a few $ less than a thousand.

i won't say to much but start using your forex skills in chart reading the rest is easy
  • #156
  • May 20, 2013 7:18pm May 20, 2013 7:18pm
Quoting Cecil Gee
{quote} first T.F. you don't need lots of capital for what I do, you can do this stuff with a few $ less than a thousand. i won't say to much but start using your forex skills in chart reading the rest is easy
yep, I'm not afeared. I am gonna watch how the options behave near expiry though, need screen time. If I have fat weeks I don't mind putting some gains at risk. This week though will be tough to trade much, under the gun & traveling. Good luck tomorrow - will be out til then.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #157
  • May 20, 2013 8:11pm May 20, 2013 8:11pm
Quoting Cecil Gee
{quote} Thanks for the kind comment wulfgar, i'm gonna pm some stuff to you and T.F. of what you need to consider when buying these type of options because with respect some options mentioned i know will not have a chance of acheiving the goals set
lookin forward to reading em my friend
  • #158
  • May 21, 2013 9:14am May 21, 2013 9:14am
Hi,

Just stumbled upon the thread and I must say, though I've not traded these options more than one or two contracts before few years, I am very keen to learn and grow.

I've read the basics and know bit of maths behind it, but count me in as a beginner.

Options are one of the best tools to make money with lowest risk profile, if traded correctly, I believe.
  • #159
  • May 21, 2013 9:44am May 21, 2013 9:44am
Quoting gj6n68
Hi, Just stumbled upon the thread and I must say, though I've not traded these options more than one or two contracts before few years, I am very keen to learn and grow.
Well, pull up a cheer. No harm in being a noob. There's a papertrader on the CBOE site. Also one at TDAmeritrade with ThinkorSwim, the best options trading platform there is. What do you think the market's gonna do?

I put on the Jul put leg of the IAU straddle I mentioned above. I need about a $0.80 move either way from here to make money.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #160
  • May 21, 2013 9:47am May 21, 2013 9:47am
Quoting gj6n68
Hi, Just stumbled upon the thread and I must say, though I've not traded these options more than one or two contracts before few years, I am very keen to learn and grow. I've read the basics and know bit of maths behind it, but count me in as a beginner. Options are one of the best tools to make money with lowest risk profile, if traded correctly, I believe.
Welcome aboard

Options are great but there are a few more moving parts than other instruments so take ur time and learn them. But they absolutely are a great tool and open many many other facets of trading than any other derivative.
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