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The Trader Behind the Trade™

  • #561
  • Apr 28, 2013 1:57pm Apr 28, 2013 1:57pm
My subscribers do though, because their accounts are growing....
  • #562
  • Apr 28, 2013 2:15pm Apr 28, 2013 2:15pm
Quoting Tradingplace
My subscribers do though, because their accounts are growing....
If you are able to convince people to subscribe to your service without any third party confirmation of the results more power to you. You must be quite the salesman.
  • #563
  • Apr 28, 2013 2:15pm Apr 28, 2013 2:15pm
Quoting pbb
{quote} How about selling signals? The only difference I see here is being paid afterwards over actual performance instead of asking your clients for an upfront subscription payment.
I wasn't aware that RAPA had a signal service. I thought it was just for capital placement.
  • #564
  • Apr 28, 2013 2:27pm Apr 28, 2013 2:27pm
Quoting Seneca pilot
{quote} If you are able to convince people to subscribe to your service without any third party confirmation of the results more power to you. You must be quite the salesman.
Word of mouth...provide good results to existing clients and they will spread the word
  • #565
  • Apr 28, 2013 2:41pm Apr 28, 2013 2:41pm
Quoting Tradingplace
{quote} Word of mouth...provide good results to existing clients and they will spread the word
I agree with you to some degree. If the service sucks, people won't subscribe. It's a subscription based business, so if you want repeat business, you better perform. Otherwise sooner or later, you will die away.

It's not like a fund business, where you collect money from clients, and the clients pretty much committed at that point.

The problem with excel results is that people can't see how your equity looks like day to day. Myfxbook and trade explorer can root out these so called 'martingale' traders taht are only concerned baalnce with no regards to risk. Not that i'm calling you one, but you understand my point.

Balance or pips don't mean too much..

in my opinion it's the % return vs risk, sharpe ratio, calmar ratio..etc.
NocturnalFX is no longer offering commercial services
  • #566
  • Apr 28, 2013 2:46pm Apr 28, 2013 2:46pm
Quoting TPOTrader
{quote} I agree with you to some degree. If the service sucks, people won't subscribe. It's a subscription based business, so if you want repeat business, you better perform. Otherwise sooner or later, you will die away. It's not like a fund business, where you collect money from clients, and the clients pretty much committed at that point. The problem with excel results is that people can't see how your equity looks like day to day. Myfxbook and trade explorer can root out these so called 'martingale' traders taht are only concerned baalnce with...
My live account is with Tradesation and they are not supported on myfxbook...in my trading perfomance, i have the percentage gain shown when someone is risking 1 percent, so I dont only record in pips, but on my personal account I am risking more than that because I am very confident with my method.
  • #567
  • Apr 29, 2013 1:34pm Apr 29, 2013 1:34pm
I can't imagine being a signal provider....the stress levels must be crazy ...I salute u guys.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #568
  • Apr 29, 2013 3:19pm Apr 29, 2013 3:19pm
Looks like the myfxbook contest registration window closes today. Is anyone else thinking about doing it? I haven't registered yet, but considering.
My only hesitancy is being stacked against the inevitable 3 guys who return 3000% over a 60 day window. haha

Adam
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #569
  • Apr 29, 2013 4:11pm Apr 29, 2013 4:11pm
Quoting mpc
Looks like the myfxbook contest registration window closes today. Is anyone else thinking about doing it? I haven't registered yet, but considering. My only hesitancy is being stacked against the inevitable 3 guys who return 3000% over a 60 day window. haha Adam
All those contests do is encourage horrible money management and high risk. Let them have a contest over five years and see who is left. Then you will know who can trade.
  • #570
  • Apr 29, 2013 4:19pm Apr 29, 2013 4:19pm
Quoting Seneca pilot
{quote} All those contests do is encourage horrible money management and high risk. Let them have a contest over five years and see who is left. Then you will know who can trade.
I could not agree more..
This contest is weird, only 30 days.

Adam
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #571
  • Apr 30, 2013 5:05am Apr 30, 2013 5:05am
Quoting pemully
I can't imagine being a signal provider....the stress levels must be crazy ...I salute u guys.
This wont change the way you trade...subscibers just copy your trades.

Unless you mean being stressed in trying to impress your subcribers...or pressured to trade well because you have people copying your trades? and again, if you are confident about your method and you have used it for many years, having subscribers wont change the way you trade.
  • #572
  • Apr 30, 2013 5:16am Apr 30, 2013 5:16am
Quoting Tradingplace
{quote} This wont change the way you trade...subscibers just copy your trades. Unless you mean being stressed in trying to impress your subcribers...or pressured to trade well because you have people copying your trades? and again, if you are confident about your method and you have used it for many years, having subscribers wont change the way you trade.
yep...the need to impress.it would cripple my trading.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #573
  • Apr 30, 2013 5:34am Apr 30, 2013 5:34am
Quoting pemully
{quote} yep...the need to impress.it would cripple my trading.
If you are disciplined in your own trading, you wouldnt need to impress your subscribers by taking trades you wouldnt take on your own.

TPOTrader, sorry for invading your platform
  • #574
  • Apr 30, 2013 10:54am Apr 30, 2013 10:54am
Been there and done that. Have the T shirt.
  • #575
  • Apr 30, 2013 11:15am Apr 30, 2013 11:15am
Quoting Tradingplace
{quote} If you are disciplined in your own trading, you wouldnt need to impress your subscribers by taking trades you wouldnt take on your own. TPOTrader, sorry for invading your platform
One common misunderstanding is what draws in capital to follow a manager or signal provider.

It isn't the high risk, "impressive", trading that has deep pockets following in toe; it's the conservative and consistent managers who can deal with risk appropriately who bag the elephants.

Or, put another way, nobody stays rich chasing cowboy managers who try to impress with 4000% returns.

That's not saying that risky management and potential cowboy-style high returns doesn't draw in capital, but the difference is whales vs minnows as the analogy goes.

Then again, to be fair, retail copy trade customers chasing systems that have a perfectly straight line ascending equity curve before it loses 99% in one trade might not be making the same choices as accredited investors looking for mangers and funds to diversify.

Mm..
FXGears.com
  • #576
  • Apr 30, 2013 11:25am Apr 30, 2013 11:25am
Quoting Jack_Larkin
{quote} One common misunderstanding is what draws in capital to follow a manager or signal provider. It isn't the high risk, "impressive", trading that has deep pockets following in toe; it's the conservative and consistent managers who can deal with risk appropriately who bag the elephants. Or, put another way, nobody stays rich chasing cowboy managers who try to impress with 4000% returns. That's not saying that risky management and potential cowboy-style high returns doesn't draw in capital, but the difference is whales vs minnows as the...


Slow and steady gets the money.
  • #577
  • Apr 30, 2013 11:37am Apr 30, 2013 11:37am
Quoting Seneca pilot
{quote} Slow and steady gets the money.
  • #578
  • Edited 1:17pm Apr 30, 2013 12:11pm | Edited 1:17pm
Quoting Jack_Larkin
Then again, to be fair, retail copy trade customers chasing systems that have a perfectly straight line ascending equity curve before it loses 99% in one trade might not be making the same choices as accredited investors looking for mangers and funds to diversify. Mm..
Accredited investors and big money wouldn't be on this forum either. Signal providers and forex educators target the retail public, offering services for $100/mth or $250/mth and showing as you said straight line ascending equity curves. I'm sure you have seen Myfxbook accounts with $300 or $1000 growing 300% and those are intended for retail consumption, people paying them subscription fees.

Signal providers wouldn't be able to attract accredited investors. Similarly accredited investors wouldn't be looking at the vast amount of signal providers all over the internet offering $100 or $250/mth services.

Money managers who target accredited investors wouldn't be bothered with retail clients investing less than $25K and nervously calling on phone every time a trade went bad. And retail clients with $500 to $2000 spare cash to gamble wouldn't qualify for minimum investment with money managers.

TPOTrader had a hard time today, took big hits to equity (I think this single day "event" never happened before in his account history). Hope he recovers well and back on track for next month.

Below is a signal provider who attracted clients from DonnaForex Forum and then crashed spectacularly. They charged $250/mth.
"PRIVATEFOREXTRADER SIGNALS - LET THE PROFESSIONALS TRADE FOR YOU"
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1.png Size: 41 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 2.png Size: 39 KB
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #579
  • Apr 30, 2013 12:37pm Apr 30, 2013 12:37pm
Quoting mmaker
{quote} Accredited investors and big money wouldn't be on this forum either. Signal providers and forex educators target the retail public, offering services for $100/mth or $250/mth and showing as you said straight line ascending equity curves. I'm sure you have seen Myfxbook accounts with $300 or $1000 growing 300% and those are intended for retail consumption, people paying them subscription fees. Signal providers wouldn't be able to attract accredited investors. Similarly accredited investors wouldn't be looking at the vast amount of signal...
I feel for TPO. I posted the T shirt thing above to let him know we have all done this before. Today was a complete revenge trading nightmare for him I am sure. I also hope you get back on the horse TPO. Can you be reached through e-mail on your nocturnal site I don't want to converse here in public and you cannot receive PM's.
  • #580
  • Apr 30, 2013 1:24pm Apr 30, 2013 1:24pm
Quoting mmaker
{quote} Accredited investors and big money wouldn't be on this forum either. Signal providers and forex educators target the retail public, offering services for $100/mth or $250/mth and showing as you said straight line ascending equity curves. I'm sure you have seen Myfxbook accounts with $300 or $1000 growing 300% and those are intended for retail consumption, people paying them subscription fees. Signal providers wouldn't be able to attract accredited investors. Similarly accredited investors wouldn't be looking at the vast amount of signal...
Trading is easy. Having the discipline to take your hits is damn hard. Most people are not equipped. Most people will at some point break down and start to fight the market or pull their stop and let it ride down. The part between the ears is the key to this.

I differ from Jack in that I think eventually auto trading will take over. With stories in the news like the Madoff scandal I would think that very wealthy investors would prefer a model that allows them to maintain complete control of their money and allow the asset manager to do the trading and collect the fees without ever being able to be lured into making the wrong decisions and stealing the money. Of course the same rigorous criteria will have to be used to select the trader. Draw down percentages being the really important metric to make sure the trader is managing the risks properly.
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