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Why do people use Fibonacci in trading?

  • #221
  • Apr 17, 2013 11:11pm Apr 17, 2013 11:11pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
99.6% of people lose money after 1 year of trading. That gives us the number that ONLY 4 traders in 1000 make a profit after 1 year of trading. Let me ask you a simple question "venzen", do you make a living trading exclusively ONLINE RETAIL FOREX?... Did you make a living trading exclusively ONLINE RETAIL FOREX for the past 5 years?.. We all know the answer. You cannot hide the Sun with one Finger, "venzen".
"99.6% of people lose money after 1 year of trading"

Everyone......EVERYONE......loses money trading. There is not a single trader alive who has never lost money trading. So put that bullshit and often parroted by the ignorant statement in the trash, where it belongs.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #222
  • Apr 17, 2013 11:32pm Apr 17, 2013 11:32pm
Quoting realjumper
"99.6% of people lose money after 1 year of trading" Everyone......EVERYONE......loses money trading. There is not a single trader alive who has never lost money trading. So put that bullshit and often parroted by the ignorant statement in the trash, where it belongs.


I understand you can be very angry by the FACTS, but it's the TRUTH, and you CANNOT HIDE IT, no matter how hard you try.

If you consider yourself a so called "PRO" in Forex, you must know that FOREX BROKERS are now required to report customer account profitability figures, a requirement which went in to force in 2010.

According to official stats performed in thousands of LIVE Accounts in FOREX BROKERS (study made by PhD John Forman):

Only 0.4% of LIVE FOREX ACCOUNTS were profitable every quarter for more than a year.

Thus, 99.6% are not profitable long term.


It's obvious that you will try to hide the truth and change words to try to discredit others.

But you cannot hide the truth, "realjumper".

I am giving you FACTS and OFFICIAL DATA.

What about you? What are you giving me, "REAL JUMPER" ? Insults and non-professional answers?
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #223
  • Apr 17, 2013 11:35pm Apr 17, 2013 11:35pm
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting MapleLeaf
Wrong?? I already asked you in another thread if you were doing a living TRADING RETAIL FOREX and you clearly EVADED the question, then you said that you are a CODER FULL TIME... So, why do you say im wrong? You are CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. Here we go again, to make it clear. FerruFx, do you make a living Trading RETAIL ONLINE FOREX every day? Did you make a living TRADING RETAIL ONLINE FOREX for the past 5 years? Don't contradict yourself, FerruFx, because people will see it. I would think a lot of times, before hiring a coder that contradicts himself......
Re-read carefully what you said and you will see that my answer was appropriate.

"I know you are not an active LIVE FOREX Trader" ... Again I say you are wrong. I trade almost everyday on a live account. I am not a scalper who need to monitor screens all day long. And yes I code full time.

Now you ask if I make a living by trading. This is a different thing. So my answer will be slightly different. I am not making a living by trading but I am making a living (since more than 5 years as this has some interest for you) in the forex world all included.

What is the purpose of asking people all around FF if they are making a living by trading for more than 5 years. You should open your own thread with a poll.

About your coding remark, only my customers can judge me on what I gave them since many years. Please point me to a single bad review on my coding services ...
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #224
  • Apr 17, 2013 11:47pm Apr 17, 2013 11:47pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
I understand you can be very angry by the FACTS, but it's the TRUTH, and you CANNOT HIDE IT, no matter how hard you try. If you consider yourself a so called "PRO" in Forex, you must know that FOREX BROKERS are now required to report customer account profitability figures, a requirement which went in to force in 2010. According to official stats performed in thousands of LIVE Accounts in FOREX BROKERS (study made by PhD John Forman): Only 0.4% of LIVE FOREX ACCOUNTS were profitable every quarter for more than a year. Thus, 99.6% are not profitable...
First you said that....and I quote you: "99.6% of people lose money after 1 year of trading", which is, as I said, often parroted nonsense. EVERY trader loses money....NO ONE wins every trade.

So now you have changed your mind and are now saying that...and again, I quote you: "Only 0.4% of LIVE FOREX ACCOUNTS were profitable every quarter for more than a year." .... Which is something quite different from your original statement....and that statement is equally open to interpretation because we are not seeing the terms of reference and there is much more that is missing.

You are basing your entire repetitive nonsense based on 1 study by 1 person......and you believe him implicitly.....which goes to show a great deal about you.

Now go away, because you are taking this thread way off the topic that it was created for. In case you are lost, this thread is: Why do people use Fibonacci in trading?
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #225
  • Apr 17, 2013 11:55pm Apr 17, 2013 11:55pm
Quoting realjumper
First you said that....and I quote you: "99.6% of people lose money after 1 year of trading", which is, as I said, often parroted nonsense. EVERY trader loses money....NO ONE wins every trade. So now you have changed your mind and are now saying that...and again, I quote you: "Only 0.4% of LIVE FOREX ACCOUNTS were profitable every quarter for more than a year." .... Which is something quite different from your original statement....and that statement is equally open to interpretation because we are not seeing the terms of reference and...
I think the 99.6 number means in terms of having lost or made money from initial equity at the start of the year. Meaning, that most accounts aren't profitable. Not meaning that these accounts never had a losing trade...
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #226
  • Apr 18, 2013 12:01am Apr 18, 2013 12:01am
Quoting GnarlyPips
I think the 99.6 number means in terms of having lost or made money from initial equity at the start of the year. Meaning, that most accounts aren't profitable. Not meaning that these accounts never had a losing trade...
Perhaps that's your interpretation based on what you think......but that is not the terms of reference is it?

This often repeated number, if true, warrants a complete, transparent and unbiased study, undertaken by several agencies over several years, covering all age groups, professions, and much, much more in order to arrive at a proper statistic which will be able to withstand scrutiny.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #227
  • Edited 12:35am Apr 18, 2013 12:08am | Edited 12:35am
Quoting MapleLeaf
99.6% of people lose money after 1 year of trading. That gives us the number that ONLY 4 traders in 1000 make a profit after 1 year of trading. Let me ask you a simple question "venzen", do you make a living trading exclusively ONLINE RETAIL FOREX?... Did you make a living trading exclusively ONLINE RETAIL FOREX for the past 5 years?.. We all know the answer. You cannot hide the Sun with one Finger, "venzen".
You are shouting and highlighting an inconvenient truth about the retail forex market in a forex trader's forum. You are stressing the point that trading is gambling and essentially a pointless endevour since the odds are stacked, statistically, against 996 out of every 1000 traders. You are pressing people for answers and making both personal and generalised judgements. You are being disruptive and negative. What reaction do you expect around here, MapleLeaf? You are like the angry drunk on the stool at the bar who raves at any passer-by that all women are cheats and liars. I don't get benefit from talking to that guy.

You challenge me to answer your questions. My usual attitude to "must have" is "won't get", but I am interested to see what your demon does with the following:

I have made losses in trading. Huge losses. Sometimes after doubling, sometimes after quadrupling accounts.

I have not made a living trading exclusively online retail forex for the past 5 years. And let's be clear: Whatever instruments and markets I (or anyone else) trade for a living, and for how long, is none of your effing business, you hear me?

I don't pretend to myself or to others about the facts.

You see, the inconvenient truths you are posting are a blast of reality and should, for their own sake, be confronted and digested by each and every trader. Your presentation and delivery, on the other hand, need some work. Because right now, you are getting yourself in hot water with the FF moderators.
cryptocurrency everytime
  • #228
  • Apr 18, 2013 12:14am Apr 18, 2013 12:14am
Quoting realjumper
This often repeated number, if true, warrants a complete, transparent and unbiased study, undertaken by several agencies over several years, covering all age groups, professions, and much, much more in order to arrive at a proper statistic which will be able to withstand scrutiny.
Exactly. If true, and if referenced, this needs to be challenged.

But I cannot stop trading because of it. I am committed to this path and am enjoying the path of it. I have profitable positions open and feel more confident than ever about my prospects in this market.
cryptocurrency everytime
  • #229
  • Apr 18, 2013 12:34am Apr 18, 2013 12:34am
Quoting realjumper
Perhaps that's your interpretation based on what you think......but that is not the terms of reference is it? This often repeated number, if true, warrants a complete, transparent and unbiased study, undertaken by several agencies over several years, covering all age groups, professions, and much, much more in order to arrive at a proper statistic which will be able to withstand scrutiny.
I don't see how you can get "this means that they only lose trades" from it. A lot of poker players are loser, but that doesn't mean they can't win a few hands.
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #230
  • Apr 18, 2013 12:39am Apr 18, 2013 12:39am
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting venzen
You are pressing people for answers and making both personal and generalised judgements. You are being disruptive and negative. What reaction do you expect around here, MapleLeaf? You are like the angry drunk on the stool at the bar who raves at any passer-by that all women are cheats and liars.

.......

Your presentation and delivery, on the other hand, need some work. Because right now, you are getting yourself in hot water with the FF moderators.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #231
  • Apr 18, 2013 12:55am Apr 18, 2013 12:55am
Quoting GnarlyPips
I don't see how you can get "this means that they only lose trades" from it. A lot of poker players are loser, but that doesn't mean they can't win a few hands.
Perhaps you could show me where I said what you have quoted?
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #232
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:02am Apr 18, 2013 1:02am
Quoting realjumper
Perhaps you could show me where I said what you have quoted?
Quote
First you said that....and I quote you: "99.6% of people lose money after 1 year of trading", which is, as I said, often parroted nonsense. EVERY trader loses money....NO ONE wins every trade.

I read that wrong. However, if after a year, you have a 5% return on equity, then you didn't lose money after trading for one year. If you lost 5%, then you lost money for trading one year. It doesn't mean that you never lost a trade, or that you won every trade, it just means that after a year, adding up all the trades, you came out positive or negative.
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #233
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:06am Apr 18, 2013 1:06am
Quoting GnarlyPips
I read that wrong. However, if after a year, you have a 5% return on equity, then you didn't lose money after trading for one year. If you lost 5%, then you lost money for trading one year. It doesn't mean that you never lost a trade, or that you won every trade, it just means that after a year, adding up all the trades, you came out positive or negative.
I accept your apology

However, your point is??
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #234
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:17am Apr 18, 2013 1:17am
Quoting realjumper
I accept your apology However, your point is??
That saying a small percentage of accounts are profitable is akin to saying a large amount of accounts are losers.
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #235
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:22am Apr 18, 2013 1:22am
Quoting GnarlyPips
That saying a small percentage of accounts are profitable is akin to saying a large amount of accounts are losers.
And I'm saying what are the terms of reference to arrive at this conclusion? As I said "This often repeated number, if true, warrants a complete, transparent and unbiased study, undertaken by several agencies over several years, covering all age groups, professions, and much, much more in order to arrive at a proper statistic which will be able to withstand scrutiny."
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #236
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:30am Apr 18, 2013 1:30am
Quoting realjumper
And I'm saying what are the terms of reference to arrive at this conclusion? As I said "This often repeated number, if true, warrants a complete, transparent and unbiased study, undertaken by several agencies over several years, covering all age groups, professions, and much, much more in order to arrive at a proper statistic which will be able to withstand scrutiny."
"terms of reference"? What does that even mean? I'm not saying that the number is true, but it seems like you're jumping on the dude for no reason for simply saying that one number is negative while the other is positive.
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #237
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:35am Apr 18, 2013 1:35am
Quoting realjumper
And I'm saying what are the terms of reference to arrive at this conclusion? As I said "This often repeated number, if true, warrants a complete, transparent and unbiased study, undertaken by several agencies over several years, covering all age groups, professions, and much, much more in order to arrive at a proper statistic which will be able to withstand scrutiny."
To my knowledge MapleLeaf canīt produce the study because it doesnīt exist at the moment - itīs just part of an ongoing research project of an aspiring PhD. Also, it lacks in the "methodological department" (sample size is too small, timeframe of the study not long enough). Anyway, for forex daytraders the figure is probably in the right ballpark - I read a real study on stock daytraders a while ago which came to the same, devastating conclusion.
  • #238
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:42am Apr 18, 2013 1:42am
Quoting GnarlyPips
"terms of reference"? What does that even mean? I'm not saying that the number is true, but it seems like you're jumping on the dude for no reason for simply saying that one number is negative while the other is positive.
Listen carefully...please. If you do not understand what 'Terms of Reference' means, then please go and find out. In order for ANY study to have validity, it MUST have the terms of reference clearly laid out.

I'm not "jumping all over this guy".....(like you are to me by chasing me all around FF, which has not gone unnoticed). He has made the same point about 40 times now, check his past posts. I am simply querying the validity of the statement, not just blindly accepting it such as you are. I have that right.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #239
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:49am Apr 18, 2013 1:49am
Who says Fibs dont work? perfect reversal at top and bottom. ON FIBS.

Guess the Egyptians, Greeks and poor old Leonardo of Pisa were on to something after all.
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  • #240
  • Apr 18, 2013 2:12am Apr 18, 2013 2:12am
Quoting realjumper
Listen carefully...please. If you do not understand what 'Terms of Reference' means, then please go and find out. In order for ANY study to have validity, it MUST have the terms of reference clearly laid out. I'm not "jumping all over this guy".....(like you are to me by chasing me all around FF, which has not gone unnoticed). He has made the same point about 40 times now, check his past posts. I am simply querying the validity of the statement, not just blindly accepting it such as you are. I have that right.
So, like, what's the point of the study? If a lot of people lose, maybe it could stop some people from losing by them knowing the chances of them losing is very high.

I haven't jumped on you all around FF, just posting about you getting after this guy and in the news article where you claim that FF shouldn't post anything that isn't "forex related."

Also, did you not read where I said where I said "I'm not saying that the numbers are true?"

Relax.
Play the players, not the cards.
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