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Forex = legal scam

  • #121
  • Apr 14, 2013 4:14pm Apr 14, 2013 4:14pm
Quoting jeuro
Your not answering Seneca question. He ask if anyone "purchased" at 3040 (past tense) and sold at 3090 ..(past tense).. how anyone can take your money? In any case, what happened to you it is weird... it has no logic. Even for a scam broker. If price is at 3050 and you have a buy limit at 3040... the "ask" should touch 3040..and in a news dropping price a scam would execute you at higher price then 3040. .. maybe even the 3050 if they really scammers. No way they would execute you at 3100...is either the ask price did touch the 3040 or...
i can guarantee it did happen. Only once though. That was first time my limit order was filled because of news.

I had a large limit sell position above current price in USDJPY and GOOD data have been released. I am swing trader so no news trading. Price exceeded my sell order for 4 pips and then quickly reversed, so clearly in. However I was given 12 pips lower price than my limit order.

I do not trade thru this broker anymore as potential for slippage, i hoped removed, is clearly there. Some broker (not all) guarantee limit orders, but you better check.
  • #122
  • Apr 14, 2013 6:14pm Apr 14, 2013 6:14pm
Quoting Seneca pilot
You are evading the most important question being asked. Please explain to all your faithful followers how a broker, any broker can steal the fifty pips that would have been earned in the trade. If I bought at 3040 and sold at 3090 how would my broker have stolen the profits? The levels for the trade are not made up. Ask anyone who reads and posts in my thread every day if I teach to buy at the previous week high and the previous day low when they are approached from above. You have an axe to grind and you want to blame anyone but yourself for your...

That's not the point. You are making up stuff there. Who talked about 3040 / 3090 ?? You are taking one of the points I gave here about RETAIL FOREX BROKERS moving a few pips and you OVER-EXAGGERATED it, trying to find a weakness in my point to TRY tro Discredit me. But you are completely WRONG there. Good try, tho, to try to defend YOUR Business, but you failed. People reading this, will understand that you are making up stuff and will be discouraged to waste their money in a 99.6% of losers model.

You can't also talk about all the other points I gave, even tho, you read them over and over and over again, but you cannot find a way to discredit them either. You cannot discredit the TRUTH.

I talked about many points and gave many different arguments on why ONLINE RETAIL FOREX BROKERS are not an honest business like any other and how it's directly linked to a CASINO Business MODEL.

It has been shown that 99.6% of people lose money long term and you can't show me who is doing money long term here, trading only RETAIL FOREX BROKERS... Tell me, how many traders here do a LIVING Trading RETAIL FOREX ?.. Do you know any doing a living OFF RETAIL FOREX for the last 5 years? What percentage they represent in the whole? A few in thousands and thousands? Let's see if you can answer that question... You will keep evading the QUESTION and keep asking a question you made up?...
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The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #123
  • Apr 14, 2013 7:35pm Apr 14, 2013 7:35pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
That's not the point. You are making up stuff there. Who talked about 3040 / 3090 ?? You are taking one of the points I gave here about RETAIL FOREX BROKERS moving a few pips and you OVER-EXAGGERATED it, trying to find a weakness in my point to TRY tro Discredit me. But you are completely WRONG there. Good try, tho, to try to defend YOUR Business, but you failed. People reading this, will understand that you are making up stuff and will be discouraged to waste their...
Not worth any more effort on my part. I do not work for nor do I own a brokerage. I am a retail trader however I have a large account and trade through a bank. I was a small trader at one time and a retail broker gave me access to a market that I would not otherwise had. They still have my business in the form of my test account and they have never stolen any money from me. I am sorry you live life in such a jaded and unhappy way.

EDIT: here out of my test account real time just closed these, please show me where they took my money. that purple line has been there since the close on Friday.
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  • #124
  • Apr 15, 2013 1:18pm Apr 15, 2013 1:18pm
Quoting jeuro
Hey Maple.. What is "to you" ONLINE RETAIL FOREX BROKERS ??? Who you trade forex with?? I have accounts with 6 brokers. 2 banks . 2 of them ECN/DMA and 2 that are not. Older Brokers like Alpari uk and newer one like FinFX and Armada. To me, all 6 are Online ( I trade from home) and all 6 are Retail. Because that is "my" level of trading with the "less" then 100k I operate. J.
you also trade with dukascopy, right?
  • #125
  • Apr 15, 2013 1:41pm Apr 15, 2013 1:41pm
Quoting the si
you also trade with dukascopy, right?
Dukascopy is one of the Banks.
J.
  • #126
  • Edited Apr 16, 2013 4:54am Apr 15, 2013 3:14pm | Edited Apr 16, 2013 4:54am
Here is a live account sample-example of Mousetrap, the other observations Cat'nMouse and Clone are shown above. These are facts, replicable observations that anybody can observe for themselves. The point is not to not trade, the point for all of us outsider traders is to have the proper mindset, at it's core 1. manage the risk not the reward, 2. manage the reward by managing the risk, 3. repeat 1 and 2. My suggestion is to practice with demo and free information for a while, then either walk away or trade with the smallest size amount and live account possible and try to build it with patience and discipline from house money. I trade one penny, that's it.

MouseTrap: place the mouse on Buy (or Sell or Close) button.
Sample 1 Mousetrap Picture 1: mouse on Buy button.
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Sample 1 Mousetrap Picture 2: pullback and reversal change of next bar color.
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Sample 2 Mousetrap Picture 3: mouse on Buy button.
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Sample 2 Mousetrap Picture 4: pullback and reversal change of next bar color.
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Mouse related events, GetMousePosition(x,y), MouseOnBuyButton(x,y), LeftClickMouseOnBuyButton(x,y)
  • #127
  • Edited Apr 16, 2013 4:50am Apr 15, 2013 4:41pm | Edited Apr 16, 2013 4:50am
The fourth observation, LiveWire, once again, the point is not to not trade, but rather for all of us outsider traders to have the proper mindset going into live trading, to always focus on the risk, #1 manage the risk not the reward.

Standard Live Account Compliance Form: "...WHEN YOU SELL, THE DEALER IS THE BUYER. WHEN YOU BUY, THE DEALER IS THE SELLER. As a result, when you lose money trading, your dealer is making money on such trades, in addition to any fees, commissions, or spreads the dealer may charge... "

To summarize, from Threadpage 5, Thread #66, there are at least four observations, best seen 1m or 5m to speed things up, but occurs all timeframes, the observations were tested on at least forty brokers A to Z including so-called ECNs with minimum five serial trades:

1 across brokers
2 across clients
3 across markets
4 across time
5 across time frames
6 across accounts

1. Mousetrap - place the mouse on Buy (or Sell or Close) button, at least 3 observations, tick freezes, bid-ask pulls back and reverses color direction on next bar.
2. Cat'nMouse - chase demo trades, Buy, Close, Sell, Close, Buy, at least 3 observations, pullbacks, reversals, and "lining" sideways movement at order line.
3. Clone - FreeStockCharts, at least 2 observations, all markets move together or inversely correlated.
4. LiveWire - live account signed agreement the broker-dealer is trading against every trade, at least one observation, Virtual Dealer.
  • #128
  • Edited 4:51am Apr 16, 2013 3:18am | Edited 4:51am
Juero: If "all" traders, that 99.6% you mention, would switch to a "real ECN" broker... the problem is rooted with the people...Unlucky, people tend to blame everybody else for their stupid actions and decisions...Banks started to seize the opportunity offering all type of 100% loans, 110% loans, cash rebates, etc...The "real" market sometimes has huge spreads... so if you trade with a real ECN , you must keep an eye on them...Even for a scam broker

Seneca Pilot: The retail brokers are the only avenue for the small trader to learn to trade...Most traders lose because they do not have a real method and they do not have the patience to wait for price to reach an important level...Most traders lose, get over it. They lose because they can't or won't do the correct things...I take it you have lost a lot of money in the markets and are looking for someone to blame...Trading is only unbeatable if you have given up and resign yourself to being a loser...most traders are gamblers... Typically only about one or two percent of the population will be truly on top and the rest will work for them...If you guys would spend as much time and effort trying to figure out what the winners are doing and execute that instead of bitching about their tactics many of you could join the top...a retail broker gave me access to a market that I would not otherwise had...I am sorry you live life in such a jaded and unhappy way.

FerruFX: ...would be in fact profitable traders in the real market.
Perfectgrim: the fap team (prolly one guy somewhere) went into full on war with brokers trying to convince people that brokers are evil

Forexnuts: So where's the proof?

ReyesWhite: for anyone feeling demotivated i suggest to refresh yourself on a course of technical analysis such as babypips

MapleLeaf: how it's directly linked to a CASINO Business MODEL...Tell me, how many traders here do a LIVING Trading RETAIL FOREX ?


There are step-by-step mentored real methods with eight million views and fifty thousand replies right here, but these stupid people are not doing the correct things? Are you saying all this stuff doesn't work?. In summary, Mr. Seneca says the 99.6% traders should find out who the 0.4% are and what they are doing.
  • #129
  • Edited 6:11am Apr 16, 2013 6:00am | Edited 6:11am
Quoting jgray110
MapleLeaf: how it's directly linked to a CASINO Business MODEL...


Tell me, how many traders here do a LIVING Trading RETAIL FOREX ?

Yes, Forex is very similar to Casino in a lot of ways, thus, you can certainly say's it's like gambling.

According to official stats, 99.6% of people lose money in FOREX, after 1 year of trading. Almost nobody makes a living trading RETAIL FOREX. That's not my opinion. That's a FACT. The U.S. Government finally forced Retail Forex Brokers to report everything, so we now know the real number.

Retail Forex traders do think that they're "investing" on a skills based assumption rather than gambling. They are gamblers, but most of them don't know about this.

You believe there are systems, and EA's, and indicators and Price Action to predict the future. Nobody can predict what will happen. And those indicators, ALL LAG Big time, and won't reduce the HOUSE EDGE, if any. Even if you consider there is an edge, well.. In BlackJack and Roulette you have a similar edge too. So, we are talking about a Gambling Business here, definitely. And believe me, The HOUSE will Always win long term.

Most employees of the FOREX BROKERS or some people with 10+ vouchers who benefit in some way of people losing their money, might quote the message and say things like: "I'm sorry you could not make it in FOREX, maybe it was not for you".. or "If you lost your account, it was probably your fault"... --> PURE LIES to justify their Gambling business. I have seen this over and over and over again. Those guys always use the same PDF F.A.Q. answers. They look like programmed. You can see the same answers, of the same type of people in every single forex forum, and after some time, you can clearly guess their intentions, and why they even waste their time trying to convince people to stay in Forex...

They will always try to find a justification for their Casino Gambling Forex Bookmarking business.

Probably, most Forex Brokers CEO's know this very well. They know they are managing a Casino Business Model, and their HOUSE EDGE is similar to online casino sites.

I was also fortunate enough to know some PhD's that work in the Stock Exchange here in my city, people with 30 years of experience, and every single one of them told me the same: "Forex is like Gambling. The only people doing money are either the Brokers, The Market Makers or people that work in Financial Companies like PIMCO, GoldmanSachs, MorganStanley, you name it, that have inside information for their manipulation trillion dollar hedge funds that can Manipulate the market at DISCRETION"...

Of course a lot of people here can get lucky and have a profitable month. People can even get a profitable quarter. Same as a gambler, same as a blackjack player. But in the long term, you won't be profitable. The house will always WIN long term.

New people here are enthusiastic and all happy, thinking that you found the job of your life and that if you put time and energy in this, you will be like Shia Labeuf in Wall Street 2. You are wrong, guys. I'm sorry to dissapoint you, you will dislike me for telling you the truth. It doesn't matter if you invest time and energy into this. It doesn't matter how much time you put into this, you will be gambling and thus, the whole sheme it's set for failure.

Of course people will probably don't listen to me. It's up to you. Its YOUR MONEY. I'm telling you to save your money and/or use it for your life. "OTHER PEOPLE" are telling you to WASTE IT in FOREX and to keep funding LIVE accounts and the BIG LIE that you need to BURN several Live Accounts to become a good trader!!! Decide for your own, who do you want to listen to. People dont have to lose their accounts to learn the SAD TRUTH.. You can open your eyes before that. In the other corner, FOREX BROKER employees (or people defending their "business") in forums will tell you: "You need to lose many accounts to learn how to trade". That's pure LIES. Open your eyes, people.

Another Classic big LIE that Liars repeat in forums is: "If a Doctor studies 10 years in university, you need to study 10 years in FOREX"... All LIES made up to justify their Sheme and try to keep you in their "business". The doctor gets degree. Now, if you are not profitable after investing all that time in Forex, are those guys giving you any guarantee or a degree? What makes you think you will make it? HOPE? It has been proven over and over again, that all these systems FAIL LONG TERM. Don't tell me it's because the TRADERS FAULT, not proper mindset, MM, or whatever, or because of the traders discretion, that's PURE LIES to justify their "business" and make it look perfect to them. Will they be here when the time comes and you lose your account after wasting many years learning the market? No, they wont. That's the big sad truth. And it will be NOT Your FAULT, if you are not profitable after investing 5 years, 10 years or 15 years in this. Because you cannot be profitable in a gambling business model in the first place. No matter if you try to convince yourself with indicators, EMA's, EA's or whatever. You cannot predict the future in Forex. And the EDGE, will always benefit the HOUSE, long term. Same as a Casino. Remember that.

Remember, 99.6% of people don't make a living TRADING LIVE FOREX, so most likely most of the people trying to convince "rookies" that this is a "business like any other" are not making a LIVING, trading RETAIL FOREX. And unfortunately, the vast majority of the 0.4% are not average traders.

Also, another big problem here is that people come to the forum, learn, stay some years, trade demo, fund their account, lose their money, repeat the cycle.. and then they finally, open their eyes and understand that they are trying to beat the "HOUSE EDGE", so they quit, maybe after a few years, maybe after longer. The problem is that they don't come back to the forum, tell their story, that they quit FOREX. They never come back. Just check the hundreds of stories of people who started their journeys here.. They never came back.. People come and go in thousands in this "forex gambling business" every single day...

Just my five cents. Take it, ignore it, or do whatever you want with it.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #130
  • Apr 17, 2013 9:04am Apr 17, 2013 9:04am
Whoever thinks that forex is a scam are Oblivious!! This is a trilion $ market and doesn't care of your tiny weenie account.
If you've these symtoms/qualities; fear of being poor, criticized,death and negative emotions such as hatred/anger,revenge & jealousy.Please fix yourself
before this market smash you into pieces.
  • #131
  • Apr 17, 2013 10:09am Apr 17, 2013 10:09am
Quoting MapleLeaf
Yes, Forex is very similar to Casino in a lot of ways, thus, you can certainly say's it's like gambling. According to official stats, 99.6% of people lose money in FOREX, after 1 year of trading. Almost nobody makes a living trading RETAIL FOREX. That's not my opinion. That's a FACT. The U.S. Government finally forced Retail Forex Brokers to report everything, so we now know the real number. Retail Forex traders do think that they're "investing" on a skills based assumption rather than gambling. They are gamblers, but most of them don't know...
Time to put up or shut up:

Please post a link to the study that you keep quoting that PROVES that 99.6% of all retail forex traders lose money. Knowing that 78.3% of all statistics are bullshit and made up on the spot I imagine that you can't produce this study but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope to learn from the study you keep mentioning.

In the mean time here is the last three weeks of my test account. They are robbing me blind.

https://www.myfxbook.com/portfolio/mh60l/522675
  • #132
  • Apr 17, 2013 12:42pm Apr 17, 2013 12:42pm
I give up, there's just no convincing some..I asked for proof and studies but so far, nada.
Either way, going back to trading for a while and will check the thread later on to see if any proof has been posted..baited breath, crossing fingers and all the rest,
  • #133
  • Apr 17, 2013 1:00pm Apr 17, 2013 1:00pm
95% of the forex retail broker are pure scam.
Forex itself is not a scam.
  • #134
  • Apr 17, 2013 1:58pm Apr 17, 2013 1:58pm
To MapleLeaf and the rest who have a similar view on forex..

When reading all the negative posts it is very clear to me at what stage/level you are in your trading.

Belief me that all traders go through these emotions. When you lose money it simply means that you have a lack of knowledge, too little experience, maybe a too big ego, limited selfcontroll, too little hours spend studying charts, too greedy, overtrading and just a wrong attitude. I was there and i personally went through all these stages. Everebody else and the market was wrong except me.

Forex is a noble game. Think about it. If everybody becomes succesfull after just two or three years then most people would be traders. Right? It takes guts, dedication and many hours spending and just looking at your charts before the "light" will come on for you. Very few people can endure this mental torturing and survive . Trading is simply not for ordinary people.

I did my first fx training when the twin towers got hit by those planes. I lost accounts, tried just about any strategy including martingale and grid trading. My family did not support me because i could not show profits yet i spend so many hours trying. It is a lonely road with plenty of obsticles. This is not for losers and not for people who does not preservere.

Today i look back and i feel good about it all. Reading negative posts reminds me where i came from....
I conquered myself and my winning trades exceeds my losers. It was all worth it!
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #135
  • Apr 17, 2013 4:02pm Apr 17, 2013 4:02pm
Hey Members FF,

The trick is to use it to your patience, advantage, to use your patience, arrogance, claw to win and have the courage to face your fears!
...

Regards.

ernadi
  • #136
  • Apr 17, 2013 5:53pm Apr 17, 2013 5:53pm
Quoting Cobra
To MapleLeaf and the rest who have a similar view on forex.. When reading all the negative posts it is very clear to me at what stage/level you are in your trading. Belief me that all traders go through these emotions. When you lose money it simply means that you have a lack of knowledge, too little experience, maybe a too big ego, limited selfcontroll, too little hours spend studying charts, too greedy, overtrading and just a wrong attitude. I was there and i personally went through all these stages. Everebody else and the market was wrong except...
so your story has a happy ending?

are you profitable now?

how about net of all you lost learning?

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm curious
  • #137
  • Apr 18, 2013 1:00am Apr 18, 2013 1:00am
WiseOldMan

Yes it has a happy ending....

Yes i am profitable......

Made up all my losses .......

To satisfy your curiosity...see attached ( Trades from the 10th of this month up to current...)

Happy trading!
Attached File(s)
File Type: docx FXPRO Financial Services Ltd.docx   14 KB | 479 downloads
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #138
  • Edited 3:50pm Apr 18, 2013 2:23pm | Edited 3:50pm
9nine: Whoever thinks that forex is a scam are Oblivious!!
Seneca: Time to put up or shut up:
Forexnuts:I asked for proof and studies but so far, nada
No-Luck: 95% of the forex retail broker are pure scam. Forex itself is not a scam.
Cobra: I conquered myself and my winning trades exceeds my losers. It was all worth it!
ernadi: claw to win
WiseOldMan: I'm not trying to be negative, I'm curious
Cobra: Trades from the 10th of this month up to current.


Exactly, time to put up your balance sheets, or shut up, the burden of proof is on you three especially, 9nine, Seneca, Forexnuts. All you people do is talk, blah, blah, blah, where's the proof to back it up? And Cobra, I recognize your name from the strategy threads, you've been around a while, there are hundreds of mentored strategies and discussions. The article that MapleLeaf astutely mentions states that 99.6% of forex traders lose longer term, so one week doesn't mean much, especially statistically, it means nothing. Here's the article below with the author speaking directly, and sure enough, somebody tries to put a spin on it with the spread betting thing. People can easily see for themselves from the observations I listed above that it's a computer and it's manipulated against what I call the outsider. That's contradictory, 95% of brokers are pure scam, forex itself is not a scam. My broker IBFX states on their welcome page that MT4 is the most widely used platform, as it states on the MetaQuotes website, the average Metatrader Manager machine can handle up to 10,000 traders with multiple positions simultaneously (that was 2009).

http://alansforexblog.com/2008/04/20...ers-cheat-you/

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fore...real-data.html
Forex trader success rates - some real data - Trade2Win
As part of my PhD research (yes, I'm doing a doctorate focused on ... Thanks for
the analysis John. ... The loosers will never admit to loose.
  • #139
  • Apr 18, 2013 2:48pm Apr 18, 2013 2:48pm
The Problem with FX Trading is NOT that.

The Problem with FX Trading is that you, as a small retail Trader, are always a victim of the so called "gambler's ruin".

See this excellent Wikipedia article for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_fraud
Forex is a losers game.
  • #140
  • Apr 18, 2013 9:45pm Apr 18, 2013 9:45pm
When you make an open ended opinion, one that's more speculative than anything else, everyone would assume you would back it up with proof rather than try and ask others for some..
And the ride continues
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