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  • #1,281
  • Edited 11:35am Mar 31, 2013 5:05am | Edited 11:35am
Quoting mmaker
Please post your Myfxbook link when you are profitable with this Method.
Anyone using Zen's service? Does he provide a Myfxbook to back up these trades?

http://www.marketcheckdown.com/blog/...-lie-volume-2/

Quoting Ishtana
Been watching the DMR vids this long weekend. It sounded too good to be true, but no doubt there are many evidence of big winning trades. But one thing for sure, they never show a losing trade. I'm not sure whether they are cherry picking or just that good. I'm still learning, and will always be, so can't really say. Anyone think they are all for real? And came to think about it Steve himself never shown himself making a losing trade. If he does, I would believe his method more. I think we can learn a lot when his method fails. I'm definitely learning from my mistakes using his method.
Even his students don't believe these so-called winners can be seen in real-time, always easy to spot and teach after-the-fact. Everyone's been asking for a live trading room to see how these "ideal" trades can be taken in actual live environment, when prices are not yet revealed on the hard-right-edge. Unfortunately Steve and his instructors will never show a live trade, despite repeated requests over the past 2.5 years. They will tell you they took the winner with 50 standard lots for 50pips. You just have to believe it.
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No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #1,282
  • Edited 7:25am Mar 31, 2013 5:21am | Edited 7:25am
Been watching the DMR vids this long weekend. It sounded too good to be true, but no doubt there are many evidence of big winning trades.

But one thing for sure, they never show a losing trade. I'm not sure whether they are cherry picking or just that good.

I'm still learning, and will always be, so can't really say. Anyone think they are all for real?

And came to think about it Steve himself never shown himself making a losing trade. If he does, I would believe his method more. I think we can learn a lot when his method fails. I'm definitely learning from my mistakes using his method.
  • #1,283
  • Apr 1, 2013 5:39am Apr 1, 2013 5:39am
Nice start for the week, with a perfect W on euro.
Here is the chart:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusd perfect W.jpg Size: 178 KB


What is better, is that this move was analyzed in my previous post, #1277.
No, I am not saying that I was "predicting" it but instead, I was reading the evidences that price itself was given to me.
The "potential" PFL, the stop hunt to the down side, the possible level 1, etc.
And no, I didn't took the trade in its beginning, because I was waiting London open. But we can see that the move started much earlier. Then, when I entered, at much higher prices(2810), the price just stopped to move. Then, I remembered that today is holidays in Europe. Then, I chickened out at BE. But, we can see that the price moved a bit. Well, the Smart Money does not take holidays! :-)

Another thing.
I think it is well worth to everyone in this thread to study the Wyckoff method. Wyckoff was a very famous trader back in the 1929's.
He also produced a framework for the market movements. He names the phases as accumulation, mark up, distribution and mark down.
Also, the mentions that there is a stop hunt phase, but he calls it "up thrusts", when the stop hunt is to the upside and "shake outs", when the stop hunt is to the downside. He also talks about manipulation, etc.
And, to finish it, Wyckoff also mentions that the market has a tendency to move in waves of 3, after the accumulation or distribution started, with "re-accumulation" and "re-distribution" phases in between. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
Have a look at a thread called "VSA with Malcom"(sorry to call another thread inside this one), here in FF. There are great material there. I also can provide a basic stuff if you want to have a look on it.

Cheers!
  • #1,284
  • Apr 1, 2013 5:44am Apr 1, 2013 5:44am
Quoting mmaker
Anyone using Zen's service? Does he provide a Myfxbook to back up these trades? http://www.marketcheckdown.com/blog/...-lie-volume-2/ Even his students don't believe these so-called winners can be seen in real-time, always easy to spot and teach after-the-fact. Everyone's been asking for a live trading room to see how these "ideal" trades can be taken in actual live environment, when prices are not yet revealed on the hard-right-edge. Unfortunately Steve and his instructors will never show a live trade, despite repeated requests...
Zen does not provide Myfxbook. But they provide charts showing the trades they took or not, based on their daily review.
  • #1,285
  • Apr 1, 2013 6:02am Apr 1, 2013 6:02am
I read a lot of posts asking for Myfxbook and proves of trades.
Although I think there is nothing wrong in wanting to see the method in play, in live market conditions, actually we don't need others to prove us that a method works or not. We have to do it by ourselves.

If we are asking people to prove us that their method works, we are actually already doubting it.
If one method, any method, does not makes sense to us and we cannot believe in it, it doesn't even matter that someone shows that they have success with it, because we will not be able to apply it, because we don't believe in it.

What SM teaches makes a lot of sense. Think about it. What SM teaches is that the market makers(doesn't matter who they are...) need to accumulate before mark the price up and to distribute, before mark the price down.
The stop hunt is just another tool "they" use to accumulate more. "They" use the liquidity provided by the standing orders to open or liquidate "their" positions, because "their" positions are huge.
If they enter at market, the price will slippage against them. That's why they go for liquidity. Liquidity is not an issue for us, retail traders, even if we trade at 50 standard lots. It is nothing compared to what the banks trade. They trade in yards, that are lots of billions of dollars. For this size, liquidity is an issue.

Then, all that SM is saying is "identify the accumulation phase and trade against it" and "identify the distribution phase" and trade against it.
And, in this context, we can understand better the:
1. safety trades: these are safe to take because they came in what he calls level 1, just after the accumulation/distribution phase. And, because it is after the stop hunt. The stop hunt is, almost always, the last step before the trend starts.
2. straight trades: it happens when "they" don't make another stop hunt before the beginning of the run. Probably because they already made the stop hunt before so, be aware of the last stop hunt. If you see a stop hunt yesterday, there is a chance there will not be another one today.

Well, the idea here is: stop looking for proves that this works. If you don't believe in this method or if it does not makes sense to you, go look for another one.
But I warrant you, it is what happens in the markets. Wyckoff, VSA, SM, MC, are talking the same thing, with different words and different methods to identify the very same phases(cycles) that happens in all markets.
One thing that hurts SM himself a lot, in that he puts a lot of strength in the M and W patterns. We have to understand that M and W signifies reversal patterns, and can be anything like a perfect M or W, a 1-2-3 pattern, double tops and bottoms, etc.

Sorry that this post is very long but I think it is very important to understand it.
Commentaries are welcome!
  • #1,286
  • Apr 1, 2013 6:37am Apr 1, 2013 6:37am
Terrific post thx Joa. Having tried many (15+) methods, some of which worked for a while, I treat all methods with caution. I read once that when you enter a trade you should always accept that it will fail, that every trade you enter is destined to fail. From my experience, all methods fail so I look into a new one with skepticism. A track record gives me a way of filtering methods and a good track record would VASTLY increase my confidence in it and cost the spruiker nothing.
  • #1,287
  • Apr 1, 2013 8:46am Apr 1, 2013 8:46am
Excellent post Joao! You're one of the very few who seems to understand clearly what Steve is trying to get across.

You went so deep on your posts I had trouble comprehending them =)

Btw, isn't Wyckoff a stock trader? Forex wasn't accessible to retail traders during his time (20s). And I know you're an advocate for VSA, and I can simply see the benefit to stock traders because Volume is rather accurate and significant in stock trading. But how do you know Wyckoff's stock trading method is also completely applicable and transferable to forex?
  • #1,288
  • Apr 1, 2013 9:11am Apr 1, 2013 9:11am
Quoting Ishtana
Excellent post Joao! You're one of the very few who seems to understand clearly what Steve is trying to get across. You went so deep on your posts I had trouble comprehending them =) Btw, isn't Wyckoff a stock trader? Forex wasn't accessible to retail traders during his time (20s). And I know you're an advocate for VSA, and I can simply see the benefit to stock traders because Volume is rather accurate and significant in stock trading. But how do you know Wyckoff's stock trading method is also completely applicable and transferable to forex?
Yes, you're right, Wyckoff was a stocks trader and all of his teachings and method are based on stocks.
But, we have the tick volume in spot forex and it works just as accurately.
I know by experience, studying it and applying to my own trade.
I warrant you that it works. You can believe in the tick volume that we have in spot forex.

The great thing about Wyckoff in his 1920's and our days is that, although the financial instruments traded and technology changed a lot, the process didn't!
I.e, it is still accumulation, stop hunting low, mark up, distribution, stop hunting high and mark down. Also the same tools for manipulation are still used, like news, human behavior, the chasing price mentality, etc. Amazing, isn't it? :-)

By the way, eurusd just kept going and going!
Today we have the possible LOW, meaning that we have 2 or 3 days of upside, probably. Let's keep an eye on it.

Cheers!
  • #1,289
  • Apr 1, 2013 10:39am Apr 1, 2013 10:39am
Hey this is great stuff..thank you for the wyckoff method..i like finding different ways to teach the same concept.

on another note, i've just been informed that mr. m has people troll the forums looking for people giving away his method so they can order C&D... are we in violation by posting our trades? I've asked the site moderators to take down my posts just in case but they haven't got back to me yet.

Do you know?

Quoting joaoborras
Nice start for the week, with a perfect W on euro. Here is the chart: {image} What is better, is that this move was analyzed in my previous post, #1277. No, I am not saying that I was "predicting" it but instead, I was reading the evidences that price itself was given to me. The "potential" PFL, the stop hunt to the down side, the possible level 1, etc. And no, I didn't took the trade in its beginning, because I was waiting London open. But we can see that the move started much earlier. Then, when I entered, at much higher prices(2810), the...
  • #1,290
  • Edited 12:00pm Apr 1, 2013 11:40am | Edited 12:00pm
Quoting nightshade
Hey this is great stuff..thank you for the wyckoff method..i like finding different ways to teach the same concept. on another note, i've just been informed that mr. m has people troll the forums looking for people giving away his method so they can order C&D... are we in violation by posting our trades? I've asked the site moderators to take down my posts just in case but they haven't got back to me yet. Do you know?
Who told you to take down your posts? If you're not interested you don't have to be here. Why ask site moderators to remove perfectly fine discussions because that someone told you crap? Don't you think it's strange timing now that we have joaoborras willing to show us the way? Especially when we are talking about track records and proving this method works, you have people informing you to take down your posts. Something is fishy here.

Someone somewhere doesn't want any proven track record shown. Either that or that person is talking crap. Mr M has lawsuits going on and enemies with agenda.
  • #1,291
  • Apr 1, 2013 12:48pm Apr 1, 2013 12:48pm
Quoting anyone
Who told you to take down your posts? If you're not interested you don't have to be here. Why ask site moderators to remove perfectly fine discussions because that someone told you crap? Don't you think it's strange timing now that we have joaoborras willing to show us the way? Especially when we are talking about track records and proving this method works, you have people informing you to take down your posts. Something is fishy here. Someone somewhere doesn't want any proven track record shown. Either that or that person is talking crap. Mr M...
Are you a sm method trader? he specifically says to not share his information with anyone. i didn't believe i was sharing his methods, only what i was doing... but by having his charts screen capped in a forum maybe that is a problem? sm is very adamant about people having to pay for his stuff.... nothing for free.

just wanting to know if its ok to post my screen caps is all. i dont care what other people do.
  • #1,292
  • Apr 1, 2013 1:09pm Apr 1, 2013 1:09pm
The horse, as they say, is out of the barn. No need to close the barn doors.
Chance favors the prepared
  • #1,293
  • Apr 1, 2013 1:18pm Apr 1, 2013 1:18pm
Also, I dont' wanna accuse you of not reading properly, but I don't think you did.. I never said anything about jaoborras or taking down his posts...just mine.

Quoting anyone
Who told you to take down your posts? If you're not interested you don't have to be here. Why ask site moderators to remove perfectly fine discussions because that someone told you crap? Don't you think it's strange timing now that we have joaoborras willing to show us the way? Especially when we are talking about track records and proving this method works, you have people informing you to take down your posts. Something is fishy here. Someone somewhere doesn't want any proven track record shown. Either that or that person is talking crap. Mr M...
  • #1,294
  • Edited 11:36pm Apr 1, 2013 10:03pm | Edited 11:36pm
Quoting JohnW
The horse, as they say, is out of the barn. No need to close the barn doors.
Quoting nightshade
Are you a sm method trader? he specifically says to not share his information with anyone. i didn't believe i was sharing his methods, only what i was doing... but by having his charts screen capped in a forum maybe that is a problem? sm is very adamant about people having to pay for his stuff.... nothing for free. just wanting to know if its ok to post my screen caps is all. i dont care what other people do.
Think about it this way, if you don't show your screen captures then how to communicate effectively with others? A picture speaks a thousand words as the cliche goes. If you want to get involved with the thread you will have to show your charts and explain your thought process. If Steve has a problem with that, he would have spoken to FF and shut down this thread long ago. Don't worry about rumors and hearsay, if you had to ask ("just wanting to know if its ok to post my screen caps is all") then it is probably not true. What's most important is your learning and your profitability. Not to worry for Steve, he already made his $5.9million from 1147 students. Worry about your own trading needs first.

Let's not veer off track and distract the few who are sharing their ideas everyday. We all heard your question so let's leave it as that. It takes special effort and heart to want to share their ideas and charts everyday, we should appreciate that and give these nice folks all the encouragement to continue posting.

I'm currently studying Seneca pilot's thread on the idea of "no trade zones" which I hope to add to M&W Method so we can answer the question of the right price and and right timing to take a trade, and avoid all the false PFH or PFL all over the no trade zones. He has Myfxbook tracking.

Quoting joaoborras
I really don't know if we are violating something here.
Of course we are not. It's hearsay and distraction.

Definition of Hearsay: information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience. Double hearsay is when a hearsay statement offered as evidence contains another hearsay statement.

If he had to ask ("just wanting to know if its ok to post my screen caps is all") then it's double hearsay and even the person who told him is not sure.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #1,295
  • Apr 1, 2013 10:44pm Apr 1, 2013 10:44pm
I really don't know if we are violating something here.
We are not showing his materials, just discussing a trading methodology that is also not proprietary of anyone.
M&W's are, for instance, known patterns way before all of us even know what forex is.
Stop hunting concepts are also very old, not something invented 3 years ago.
The indicators, what is proprietary there in the charts we show here? Stop hunt boxes? They are used in many other places. Moving averages? Well, there ones are very old as well. Daily highs/low, pivots, all are very well known tools.
The entire methodology discussed here is nothing new. All the elements are very well known. The accumulation process, the stop hunting, the time of the day these things usually happens, etc.
SM has the merit to put it all together in a concise and structured way.

Anyways, some food for thinking for the next moves in euro.
Here is a 15min chart:

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Click to Enlarge Name: euro 15min - 20130402.jpg Size: 156 KB


And here, 1hr chart:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: euro 1hr - 20130402.jpg Size: 185 KB


Cheers!
  • #1,296
  • Apr 1, 2013 11:29pm Apr 1, 2013 11:29pm
Quoting mmaker
Think about it this way, if you don't show your screen captures then how to communicate effectively with others? A picture speaks a thousand words as the cliche goes. If you want to get involved with the thread you will have to show your charts and explain your thought process. If Steve has a problem with that, he would have spoken to FF and shut down this thread long ago. Don't worry about rumors and hearsay, if you had to ask ("just wanting to know if its ok to post my screen caps is all") then it is probably not true. What's most important...
Thanks for sharing Seneca's thread.
If you allow me then, another good thread that I found is this one http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=416131, where he discusses ideas on how to find supply/demand zones, that are the possible start/end points for a trade and therefore, good points to plan to open or close a trade.
The idea there is also nothing new. As the thread's owner says himself, it basically comes from Sam Seiden's teachings.

Cheers!
  • #1,297
  • Apr 1, 2013 11:33pm Apr 1, 2013 11:33pm
Quoting mmaker
Think about it this way, if you don't show your screen captures then how to communicate effectively with others? A picture speaks a thousand words as the cliche goes. If you want to get involved with the thread you will have to show your charts and explain your thought process. If Steve has a problem with that, he would have spoken to FF and shut down this thread long ago. Don't worry about rumors and hearsay, if you had to ask ("just wanting to know if its ok to post my screen caps is all") then it is probably not true. What's most important...
When I made that post on No trade zones I really just pulled that chart out of thin air. I did not use any particular lines or prices which I felt were important. I think it is correct if I show you what my no trade zones are for today. This is the live chart right now and it shows the places where I am willing to take a stand on the Euro Dollar today. This may or may not help you with this particular method but I do not want you to adjust your thinking on this method based on a chart that I just marked up in a hurry to make the point for that particular post.

Chris
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  • #1,298
  • Edited Apr 2, 2013 12:11am Apr 1, 2013 11:41pm | Edited Apr 2, 2013 12:11am
Quoting joaoborras
Thanks for sharing Seneca's thread. If you allow me then, another good thread that I found is this one http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=416131 ("http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=416131"), where he discusses ideas on how to find supply/demand zones, that are the possible start/end points for a trade and therefore, good points to plan to open or close a trade. The idea there is also nothing new. As the thread's owner says himself, it basically comes from Sam Seiden's teachings. Cheers!
This thread might interest you also, probably not for M&W folks. He has a slightly different interpretation of Supply/Demand from Sam Seiden, and two of Steve's students (Darren and Paul) have incorporated these ideas into their trading, but was unfortunately banned from further posting in Steve's private forum. The author explains his charts very clearly.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=288707

Terminolgy

A list of the abbreviations / terminology:

TT = Touch Trade
PA = Price Action
FTB = First Time Back (note - not an immediate retest - an arc like first retrace)
FLR = First Line of Resistance
FLS = First Line of Support
TL = Trendline
TP = Take Profit
SL = Stop Loss
%R = Risk / Reward Ratio
S/R = Support / Resistance Zone
SD = Supply / Demand Zone
BRN = Big Round Number (Mostly .xx00 e.g. 1.0000, 1.3000)
RN = Round Number - every other type of RN that is not a BRN e.g. 1.3550
TF = Time Frame
HTF = Higher Time Frame (Daily and upwards)
LTF = Lower Time Frame (H1 and H4)
VLTF = Sub H1 Time Frame
FB = False Breakout
RBR = Rally Base Rally
RBD = Rally Base Drop
DBD = Drop Base Drop
DBR = Drop Base Rally
LS = Liquidity Spike
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No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #1,299
  • Apr 2, 2013 1:31am Apr 2, 2013 1:31am
Quoting mmaker
This thread might interest you also, probably not for M&W folks. He has a slightly different interpretation of Supply/Demand from Sam Seiden, and two of Steve's students (Darren and Paul) have incorporated these ideas into their trading, but was unfortunately banned from further posting in Steve's private forum. The author explains his charts very clearly. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=288707 Terminolgy A list of the abbreviations / terminology: TT = Touch Trade PA = Price Action FTB = First Time Back (note - not an immediate retest...
That's really a pity they was banned...
Thanks for the link! I appreciate that!

Cheers!
  • #1,300
  • Apr 2, 2013 4:53am Apr 2, 2013 4:53am
This is an update on my post #1295. As posted there, the eurusd formed a reversal formation just on Asian close. It had 3 pushes also.
But what is nice to see is the confluence of levels and supply/demand areas. Here I am putting 2 charts.

Here is the 1hr chart, from which I get the supply levels. This was also posted in the previous post.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eur 1hr sd and cycles.jpg Size: 181 KB


And here is the 15min, showing how it worked out.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eur 15min sd and cycles.jpg Size: 160 KB


In this 15min chart you can see the fake move to the upside during Asian and, looking carefully, we can see 3 pushes there.

Well, I did take only 15 pips from this move. Better than nothing, but I think it is not good yet.

The move in cable was the same pattern. It is a good exercise try to get the supply level and match the cycles in the 15min chart.

The move itself is done and I am writing in hindsight but it is always good to see the picture as we can input it in our heads for next time.
But the setup itself was in the previous post.

Cheers!
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