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Giving Your Edge Away

  • #41
  • Mar 7, 2013 9:18am Mar 7, 2013 9:18am

Wow, great discussion. Thanks for all your replies.

MoralAtheist, I couldn't agree with you more...

Quote
Are there truly experienced traders out there who are generous enough to help others climb the greasy pole to success, I am more than a little bit skeptical about that So if all I can expect is advice from people who haven't got to where I want to get, what value is that?

Do market wizards ever impart the inner workings of their trading algos? No, of course not, but why do you guys think that is?
Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win
  • #42
  • Mar 7, 2013 9:47am Mar 7, 2013 9:47am
Quoting burnzmeister
Hi all,

When we discuss our strategies/systems/methods (whatever you want to call them) in the public domain, do we inadvertently risk losing some or even all of our edge?

Perhaps I’m a little paranoid or even selfish, but say you have developed a strategy which you’ve back tested and forward tested to be very successful over the long term; why would you take the risk of big players using your idea, only to lose out to their faster trade execution?

You might argue that the FX market has unfathomably deep liquidity, so any adverse affect...
Well , Something to Ponder ...
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  • #43
  • Mar 7, 2013 9:58am Mar 7, 2013 9:58am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
There may not be two successful traders that trade alike to a tee, as you point out CindyXXXX, but if you compare these same two successful traders to each other I'm sure you will find a lot of similarities - in terms of risk management and discipline.
You make a good point 2x + 2x =4x! But discipline and money management come in spades when you have the grail (I would imagine).

Just thinking about for example Nicolas Darvis, turned 2k into 2m with his "box method". Pretty simple yet at the time I'm sure innovative way of volume spread analysis. That just doesn't work anymore (the box method I mean, can't comment on VSA).

George Sorros, simply took a fundamental bet on the bank of whatever because he could foresee something others couldn't. I guess it paid off for him. No one could duplicate that particular strategy as the unique situation he took advantage of is gone.

I know my point is very weak but I'm just trying to highlight the fact that trading at it's core, is and has always been buying low and selling high, you can only do this by capitalizing on an inefficiency in an ever increasing efficient long run market. Anything short of this is pure gambling no matter which way you cut it.

Unless you can identify something as over or undervalued before everyone else does (or the majority), it would be quite hard long term to earn more than peanuts trading. Which would simply not be worth the screen time imho.
Time hides Nothing
  • #44
  • Mar 9, 2013 10:38am Mar 9, 2013 10:38am
Quoting 60minuteman
trust me, your edge is already out there (if by edge you mean technical strategy) there is nothing new in forex, nothing new in trading...

If you're teaching a way to approach trading and to control discipline, emotions, psychology etc... most will be unteachable and ultimately fail anyway...

So, stop making the mistake of worrying about others affecting your results, it's all down to you at the end of the day.
true.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #45
  • Mar 10, 2013 6:33pm Mar 10, 2013 6:33pm
personally I would never give away my edge. I have spent way too long tweaking and perfecting it to the stage where I can confidently apply it to earn a living, where every trade I put on is worth a car. BUT even if I were to give it away, I highly doubt the same results can be obtained by someone else as a level of discretion and experience is required and I feel only if you truly understand the strategy can you take advantage of it.
  • #46
  • Mar 11, 2013 4:18am Mar 11, 2013 4:18am
Quote
personally I would never give away my edge. I have spent way too long tweaking and perfecting it to the stage where I can confidently apply it to earn a living, where every trade I put on is worth a car. BUT even if I were to give it away, I highly doubt the same results can be obtained by someone else as a level of discretion and experience is required and I feel only if you truly understand the strategy can you take advantage of it.

That's an important point, genie; It's also a question of whether people 'deserve' to reap the benefits of your hard work. I'd say they don't.

Is being selfish an important trait in trading, or could it be a detriment to your success?
Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win
  • #47
  • Mar 11, 2013 4:19am Mar 11, 2013 4:19am
Oh and, LOL!

Quote
every trade I put on is worth a car
Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win
  • #48
  • Mar 11, 2013 4:21am Mar 11, 2013 4:21am
Quoting burnzmeister
That's an important point, genie; It's also a question of whether people 'deserve' to reap the benefits of your hard work. I'd say they don't.

Is being selfish an important trait in trading, or could it be a detriment to your success?
For me it's not about selfishness. It's about unknown risk.. What will I gain from sharing? Probably nothing. What could I lose? Maybe nothing, but who knows really..
Stop or target...
  • #49
  • Mar 11, 2013 4:26am Mar 11, 2013 4:26am
Quoting MoralAtheist
For me it's not about selfishness. It's about unknown risk.. What will I gain from sharing? Probably nothing. What could I lose? Maybe nothing, but who knows really..

you could gain... you could lose... but it's the thinking thats wrong.

Ultimately it is only price that really exists, everything and anything that works relies on price and that is free for everyone, so if your edge in your mind is fibonacci the levels that are working will also be visible as s/r, using ma's etc etc... thats why people harp on about confluence, there is really no confluence just significant prices

So peoples edges are really just a visual tool thats working for them, but I very much doubt it's something unique, or new....
tradewith60
  • #50
  • Mar 11, 2013 4:31am Mar 11, 2013 4:31am
Quoting burnzmeister
Oh and, LOL!
he's a car dealer then!
tradewith60
  • #51
  • Mar 11, 2013 5:10am Mar 11, 2013 5:10am
[quote=burnzmeister;6495328]Hi all,

When we discuss our strategies/systems/methods (whatever you want to call them) in the public domain, do we inadvertently risk losing some or even all of our edge?

Hello burnzmeister, an interesting thread.I visit these rooms looking for new/different ideas to trade with and i have mentioned this many times. Over the years i have learned about inside bars,levels,opening breakout , spikes etc and i trade them all. and yes as someone pointed out if you show a method people will always tweak them to produce better results. i do not think you will lose an edge as it is the big boys who make the market and if you do show a method you will probably get a call from a broker like i did asking you to trade for them, (obviously i turned them down). If you do have an exceptional method sell it or tell me lol. take care
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #52
  • Mar 11, 2013 5:22am Mar 11, 2013 5:22am
Quoting 60minuteman
you could gain... you could lose... but it's the thinking thats wrong.

Ultimately it is only price that really exists, everything and anything that works relies on price and that is free for everyone, so if your edge in your mind is fibonacci the levels that are working will also be visible as s/r, using ma's etc etc... thats why people harp on about confluence, there is really no confluence just significant prices

So peoples edges are really just a visual tool thats working for them, but I very much doubt it's something unique, or new....
I absolutely agree with you..
Stop or target...
  • #53
  • Mar 11, 2013 5:22am Mar 11, 2013 5:22am
Quoting burnzmeister
Oh and, LOL!
im not sure what is funny here. per trade I only risk 1%. you can figure the rest out yourself.

and as to giving my edge away, people here will laugh and immediately dimiss it. why? because it goes against all conventional "rules". low timeframe, no s/r, etc. but hey, it works for me and im happy with my profits while the rest of you are still consistently losing money. but what im really strict on is MM, all my winners get more than 1:1 on average AND I win more than I lose
  • #54
  • Mar 11, 2013 5:27am Mar 11, 2013 5:27am
Quoting genie
... but what im really strict on is MM, all my winners get more than 1:1 on average AND I win more than I lose
This is the essential in trading ...
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #55
  • Mar 11, 2013 5:40am Mar 11, 2013 5:40am
genie, I'm happy for you if you say you can buy cars, lol. But don't make the mistake of thinking nobody else on this forum makes a living from FX.

A little humility goes a long way...
Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win
  • #56
  • Mar 11, 2013 5:48am Mar 11, 2013 5:48am
Quoting burnzmeister
genie, I'm happy for you if you say you can buy cars, lol. But don't make the mistake of thinking nobody else on this forum makes a living from FX.

A little humility goes a long way...
hey man, no worries, that was not what I meant, but I know the vast majority here do not make money. I just had the suspicion that you laughed at the car comment because you may think no one can really get 'rich' in forex, which may capture the mindset of the majority of traders here, hence their results. I know a positive mindset is the most important aspect of trading and if you don't believe then you wont get far. that's all.
  • #57
  • Mar 11, 2013 6:02am Mar 11, 2013 6:02am
Quoting genie
hey man, no worries, that was not what I meant, but I know the vast majority here do not make money. I just had the suspicion that you laughed at the car comment because you may think no one can really get 'rich' in forex, which may capture the mindset of the majority of traders here, hence their results. I know a positive mindset is the most important aspect of trading and if you don't believe then you wont get far. that's all.
browsed thru your posts to see what fellow australian is up to. how do you find peperstone? Not nervous keeping this kind of money there ?

I am also car trader.
  • #58
  • Mar 11, 2013 6:13am Mar 11, 2013 6:13am
Quoting burnzmeister
genie, I'm happy for you if you say you can buy cars, lol. But don't make the mistake of thinking nobody else on this forum makes a living from FX.

A little humility goes a long way...
they might be toy cars or clapped out cars if you know what i mean. my wife once asked for a mini cooper car so i bought her one £4 from toy shop lol
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #59
  • Mar 11, 2013 6:15am Mar 11, 2013 6:15am
I sold my BMW to fund my first small account, guess that makes me a car dealer too
tradewith60
  • #60
  • Mar 11, 2013 6:18am Mar 11, 2013 6:18am
Quoting 60minuteman
I sold my BMW to fund my first small account, guess that makes me a car dealer too
I sold the farm pretty much Guess that makes me a farmer...
Stop or target...
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