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  • #321
  • Mar 5, 2013 1:33pm Mar 5, 2013 1:33pm
Well folks there you have it... TPOtrader's psychology on parade, quick to make assumptions, quick to judge, and on top of it all he is trading his "mortgage" payment money. Hmmm..

Whether it is $100 or 1 million, account equity should play no factor on a trader's psychology, the process is all the same.

"It is literally true that millions come easier to a trader after he knows how to trade, than hundreds did in the days of his ignorance" -Livermore

TPOtrader if you are viewing a loss as a tangible item, there is your first mistake and clue to me that you are trading with emotion and association behind each trade. It is frightening to see that you hold a greater weight to a loss when your account size is "big."

Your account is peanuts. Traders are making what you have in your account in a day. It is funny that you believe that our model 1k is the master account. You are delusional.

Process, process, process. Take away your emotion, and we might have a fair game. And no, we are not posting a larger account, it might make you feel bad.

How about this... You fund a $1k account, start from scratch, connect it to your copier, and we can see how many "meals" you can make versus us?

MPC
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #322
  • Mar 5, 2013 1:49pm Mar 5, 2013 1:49pm
Quote
Whether it is $100 or 1 million, account equity should play no factor on a trader's psychology, the process is all the same.

um...BULL.....umm....SHIEETTTT. Process mgiht be the same, but to disregard trader's psychology completely just means you disregard everything that has been covered under this subject..nice.

Quote
"It is literally true that millions come easier to a trader after he knows how to trade, than hundreds did in the days of his ignorance" -Livermore
Committed suicide..nuff said.

Quote
TPOtrader if you are viewing a loss as a tangible item, there is your first mistake and clue to me that you are trading with emotion and association behind each trade. It is frightening to see that you hold a greater weight to a loss when your account size is "big."

Your account is peanuts. Traders are making what you have in your account in a day. It is funny that you believe that our model 1k is the master account. You are delusional.

Never said anyting that your $1k was your master account. I was speaking in terms of this competition. It's not fair to have two competitors risking different amounts to start. You should really take reading comprehension course because i am tired having to explain myself to you man.

Quote
Process, process, process. Take away your emotion, and we might have a fair game. And no, we are not posting a larger account, it might make you feel bad.

Lol. forget about making me feel bad. Don't you owe your so called clients the proof that you can trade bigger amounts?. Why not make it public? or right, i forgot, it would make them feel bad too? freakin unbelievable.....

And no, i'm not gonna open a $1k account for this competition. I got a business to run.

Let's just call it at end of June 2014, who hasn't blown up yet...
NocturnalFX is no longer offering commercial services
  • #323
  • Mar 5, 2013 2:19pm Mar 5, 2013 2:19pm
I figured you would back down. Connecting a 1k account on your end would require 5 minutes of work.

Option B: we simply start the competition when you have drawn down to 1k, as it is highly probable.

And it is June 2013 which I mentioned (post #306). When is that Reading Comprehension course again? Maybe we should go together.

See you in June...Unless you disappear, as many do, which I hope not, because I am looking forward to it. Or maybe you will be on your 6th myfxbook account by then. Signal Providers and their standard for of trickery drive me crazy... TPO not accusing you of this, but I will if you are on your 6th myfxbook account in June.

MPC
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #324
  • Mar 5, 2013 3:06pm Mar 5, 2013 3:06pm
mpc,

you are not in a position to disparage TPO, nor should you be selling signals

you have a mere 7 weeks history, 5 of them going down hill, trading 10c pips.......the list goes on


http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1...1303060900.png

Quoting mpc
Well folks there you have it... TPOtrader's psychology on parade,
How about this... You fund a $1k account, start from scratch, connect it to your copier, and we can see how many "meals" you can make versus us?
  • #325
  • Mar 5, 2013 3:07pm Mar 5, 2013 3:07pm
mpc,

Do you have a Trade Explorer or similar for your trades? It doesn't matter if it is DEMO. I'd like to actually see the overall performance.

Thanks.


mpc / tpo - Can you guys try a DEMO first with equal value? I know emotion plays a bigger role; however, I think evaluating overall performance would be a good starting point - say a month at least? Just throwing that out there as a suggestion.

UPDATE: Nevermind, looks like PeterE just provided us with key data.
  • #326
  • Edited 6:28pm Mar 5, 2013 3:20pm | Edited 6:28pm
Quoting PeterE
mpc,

you are not in a position to disparage TPO, nor should you be selling signals

you have a mere 7 weeks history, 5 of them going down hill, trading 10c pips.......the list goes on


http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1...1303060900.png
Take a look at the Members who joined TPO at the beginning of February, they are not fairing any better...
My point is we (MPC and other Trend Following systems with R:R 2:1 or higher) are here to survive the long haul. TPO felt the dignity to interrupt my thread yesterday. And today, I am here to tell the truth that he most likely will not last.

We had an extraordinary first week of Jan and 2012. You will witness what we can do by keeping an eye on us in 2013.

I'll be back in 4 months to say "told you so."

MPC
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #327
  • Mar 5, 2013 9:34pm Mar 5, 2013 9:34pm
Quoting bumapatria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wutKVitWCA
i usually use epic music prior to news trading... but since things are escalating here.... to set the ambiance... play some of this...
sure sounds worthy of epic music.
(best tracks handpicked for the occassion!)
0:19:10
0:26:44
0:31:01
1:53:38
2:05:19
Why don't you just stay out of this? Go back to your own Commercial Thread.

Quoting bumapatria
Not interested in publicity or competitions.
anyways...
I like staying in the down low.
Too much interaction in today's forums and "publicity" seem to be more detrimental than positive. (to me at least)
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #328
  • Mar 6, 2013 12:05am Mar 6, 2013 12:05am
Quoting mpc
Take a look at the Members who joined TPO at the beginning of February, they are not fairing any better...
My point is we (MPC and other Trend Following systems with R:R 2:1 or higher) are here to survive the long haul. TPO felt the dignity to interrupt my thread yesterday. And today, I am here to tell the truth that he most likely will not last.

We had an extraordinary first week of Jan and 2012. You will witness what we can do by keeping an eye on us in 2013.

I'll be back in 4 months to say "told you so."

MPC
i only came in and commented on why using the model account of $1000 doesn't make sense given your subscription costs. You even said it yourself that $1000 should not be used to follow your signals-thus invalidating the whole idead of model account in the first place!. I said that your "Survey" was bullshit given my justification above but you took it as me calling your clients stupid. But i never commented on your trading at all.

Apparently you took the comments as a an attack on your trading in general and you turned around and made it into "i'm a better trader than you" argument. Even going as far as saying that I will blow up in the next few months based on the recent DD.

I guess we will see who's still here in the next few months.
NocturnalFX is no longer offering commercial services
  • #329
  • Mar 6, 2013 12:26am Mar 6, 2013 12:26am
Quoting mpc
Whether it is $100 or 1 million, account equity should play no factor on a trader's psychology, the process is all the same.

MPC
In theory you're right... which is just theory though!
  • #330
  • Mar 6, 2013 6:25am Mar 6, 2013 6:25am
TPO I am looking forward to the unofficial competition.

Too bad you did not want to make it official. It would be interesting to setup the framework on myfxbook, as a one on one contest. It would allow potential subscribers to compare 2 systems simultaneously and transparently.

MPC
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #331
  • Mar 6, 2013 6:40am Mar 6, 2013 6:40am
Quoting mpc
TPO I am looking forward to the unofficial competition.

Too bad you did not want to make it official. It would be interesting to setup the framework on myfxbook, as a one on one contest. It would allow potential subscribers to compare 2 systems simultaneously and transparently.

MPC
there is a feature on myfxbook to compare two systems. Just go to compare systems-its' there-then add our two systems. And the link they give you is permanent link so we can put it somewhere.

Currently i am being fcked in the ass right now by the market. But i have still one trade open today. One thing about range market is either you get fucked fast (stopped out) or you got to wait longer to profit (at least in my case).

Again..i'm just grinding it out...
NocturnalFX is no longer offering commercial services
  • #332
  • Edited 8:09am Mar 6, 2013 7:02am | Edited 8:09am
Quoting TPOTrader
there is a feature on myfxbook to compare two systems. Just go to compare systems-its' there-then add our two systems. And the link they give you is permanent link so we can put it somewhere.
http://www.myfxbook.com/compare-syst.../410565,462070
  • #333
  • Mar 6, 2013 7:56am Mar 6, 2013 7:56am
Quoting TPOTrader
there is a feature on myfxbook to compare two systems. Just go to compare systems-its' there-then add our two systems. And the link they give you is permanent link so we can put it somewhere.

Currently i am being fcked in the ass right now by the market. But i have still one trade open today. One thing about range market is either you get fucked fast (stopped out) or you got to wait longer to profit (at least in my case).

Again..i'm just grinding it out...

Understandable, no worries. My following comments are from a neutral perspective.

Just a quick comment, and to frame why I am passionate about displaying results over the long term. In our study of markets and back testing, we have found that a system must be tested over the course of 10 years or greater, to display long term viability.

In our research, no system has succeeded without having a 1.5:1 reward to risk ratio. Now you may have found it to be different in your study, and my question is 'did you go through every market cycle,' I.e. housing crash, Internet boom, 80's recession. TPO I think this is the reason you are experiencing a dramatic pullback, however you said it more colorfully. The market cycle has changed, and both of our companies (TPO and MPC) had to adjust to it, whereas many traders blew up in the recent months.

My 2 cents, figure a way to double your profits over your risk. This might affect overall profits in the short term, but will save your system over the course of many years. In the business of being a signal provider, to provide subscribers with great profits, only to give them back on the next market cycle doesn't help anyone. Anyway, just my opinion.

MPC
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #334
  • Mar 6, 2013 8:56am Mar 6, 2013 8:56am
Quoting mpc
Understandable, no worries. My following comments are from a neutral perspective.

Just a quick comment, and to frame why I am passionate about displaying results over the long term. In our study of markets and back testing, we have found that a system must be tested over the course of 10 years or greater, to display long term viability.

In our research, no system has succeeded without having a 1.5:1 reward to risk ratio. Now you may have found it to be different in your study, and my question is 'did you go through every market cycle,' I.e....
I'm gonna come back at you from a slightly different angle. I think a lot of times traders focus too much on the R:R. It's about the method. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself "waht is your edge"? IF you are a trend follower-you pretty much only make money in trendy markets. IF you are a range trader, you will lose money in trendy markets and so on. Having a R:R of 2:1 or more doesnt' save you from going broke if the market remains in unfavorable conditions for long.

My method is in general is based on order flow analysis. That means I am not tied up to some market conditions (trending or ranging) or indicator readings that is so prevalent in the trading system space. I study "orderflow mindset". I use basic technical analysis plus other forms of info (COT, news, etc.) to get a feel how the retail traders are trading-THen i take advantage of that.Is it always right? no. Is my system based on acceptable R:R? depends. Is it profitable-yes over a large sample of trades.

I know I will make money because the pyschology behind the price action NEVER changes. So that is my edge. That is what I offer to my subscribers-a chance to approach this market from a different perspective.
NocturnalFX is no longer offering commercial services
  • #335
  • Edited 2:16pm Mar 6, 2013 1:53pm | Edited 2:16pm
TPO-

Today you risked double your average Feb position size, to get back above water. You ended with 2.78%
Today MPC risked a single position size and has a floating profit of 2.5%
Same result, however two entirely different levels of risk and long term result. I hope your subscribers understand this.

Luck rewards the short term, but never does it reward the long term. Today you were gambler and won, but in the end the house will always win. I am persistent with you, because as a signal provider we (you and I) have a responsibility to build a better reputation in the community of providers. Most providers do what you did today, bet bigger when losing, and ultimately give one more black eye to the forex signal provider community after blowing up.

You also did this on Feb 5th....
------------------------------------------------------------

TPO you seem to enjoy reading Paul Tudor Jones, so I will provide you with a few quotes from him in relation to your reckless trading today...

Yesterday, you mention that you were having difficulty with the market (Being a gentleman, I won't quote your exact words)

Today, you played "Macho Man" as Jones describes, and you doubled your position size to recover... The worst time to double a position size is when a system is losing, any professional speculator understands this. TPO you are picking up nickels is front of a steamroller. Here is what I mean.

With the averages according to your myfxbook:

Your average win is 16.84 pips
Your average loss is 16.68 pips

Imagine if your trade today went south. Looking at the above averages the system you trade takes 2 consecutive winning trades to make a profit after a losing trade. And in reviewing your Z-score there is an 82% chance a loser will be followed by a loser, thus making it even more difficult to recover at 1:1. If a doubled position loses, it will now take you 3 winning trades in a row to get back above water. Or will you double again? When does it end...

"First of all never play macho man with the market."

"I am always thinking about losing money as opposed to making money."

"Risk control is the most important thing in trading."

"Don’t ever average losers. Decrease your trading volume when you are trading poorly; increase your volume when you are trading well."

"Don't be a hero. Don’t have an ego."

In summary we risked 1 to make 2 today. You risked 2 to make 1. I can already tell what the outcome will look like in June.

MPC
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: image.jpg Size: 207 KB
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #336
  • Mar 6, 2013 2:13pm Mar 6, 2013 2:13pm
great quotes, imperative concepts to be understood if "longevity" is a goal

Quoting mpc
"I am always thinking about losing money as opposed to making money."

"Risk control is the most important thing in trading."
  • #337
  • Mar 6, 2013 2:34pm Mar 6, 2013 2:34pm
It's funny how you try to explain to me the mechanics of position sizing as if i 'm clueless on this subject. Did you get your money management technique from trading for dummies book? or was it van tharp's trade your way to financial freedom? or maybe it is the google search into R:R 2:1 is the best! I'm very impressed at your level of knowledge. But please, next time-cite your work.

The fact is you know NOTHING of my system. All you see is the surface. You don't see a checklist that i go through that led to the position size decision. You don't see pages of notes i have taken from my backtests that led to this decision and why it is the optimal time. All you see is what is recorded..but not the WHY.


the fact still remains that your shitty ass system has a long way to go to even come close to what i've accomplished. Not only that , i have made consistent withdrawals of my profits and enjoying the fruits of my system The proof is there and everybody can make their own conclusions.
NocturnalFX is no longer offering commercial services
  • #338
  • Mar 6, 2013 3:15pm Mar 6, 2013 3:15pm
TPO-

Truth of the matter, when you trade publicly as a signal provider, it is expected people will review and study your stats. As a Signal Provider it is best you maturely address the questions or concerns, rather than lash out. I guarantee you, your subscribers have the same concerns I outlined earlier (post #335).

At the moment you have the gift of time on your side, as your myfxbook stats contain a longer period than MPC, however advanced traders are already reading the writing on the wall when comparing our systems. Ask any of our subscribers how their 2012 was and believe me TPO you are not our competition. Actually I believe MPC has already accomplished more in terms of long term survival in comparison to your system TPO, in our short time on myfxbook.

MPC myfxbook statistics in pips:

Average win: 48.69
Average Loss: 20.65

TPO myfxbook statistics in pips:

Average win: 16.84
Average Loss: 16.68


You see the difference between TPO and MPC? MPC only needs to be right 30% of the time to breakeven, you 50% at best (more if you continue laying down big bets as you have today). Lately, you are seeing what happens when we are correct 40% of all trades, imagine 50%.... The earlier part of 2012 we held a 60% win rate. You will see this in 2013.

Simple math.

MPC
See our myfbook results. Our username = MPC
  • #339
  • Mar 6, 2013 3:31pm Mar 6, 2013 3:31pm
Quoting mpc
TPO-

Truth of the matter, when you trade publicly as a signal provider, it is expected people will review and study your stats. As a Signal Provider it is best you maturely address the questions or concerns, rather than lash out. I guarantee you, your subscribers have the same concerns I outlined earlier (post #335).

At the moment you have the gift of time on your side, as your myfxbook stats contain a longer period than MPC, however advanced traders are already reading the writing on the wall when comparing our systems. Ask any of our subscribers...
I dont' mind questions or criticisms on my system. I welcome it!. But what you are doing is just repeating the same tired bullshit about how your R:R is better than mine. so the fuck what??...if this keeps up..i may have to ban your ass from my thread cause frankly it's just getting annoying
NocturnalFX is no longer offering commercial services
  • #340
  • Mar 6, 2013 4:15pm Mar 6, 2013 4:15pm
mpc is clearly just being a cunt to create more posts with advertising links to his shitty website with stock photos that have text poorly overlaid onto them. is that meant to look like it's a sign on the building... or doesn't someone know how to properly align text within an image and thought it looked better being cut-off at the top? more stock photos in the ff profile, and choosing to use an image of some guy who looks like a little bitch? if that was you then why isn't this person in the main derpy photo on the website? too cool to hang with the others? oh, that's right... it's all just stock photos from somewhere anyway. another stock photo on the facebook page. who is he? is he also too cool to be in the main photo? so many cool people! what a pro company!

GOOD JOB MPC! YOU IS PRO DOODZ!

...

this little pissing match is amusing, but revealing. i wouldn't trust a dollar to either of you... not after seeing both of your websites and a cursory glance at the stats on myfxbook and from reading the nonsense here. at least one of you is on their way towards surviving 200 trades, so we'll see how that goes.

at this point in time i have no idea what 'business' either of you have being a signal provider to anyone. everyone wants to be the next big hedge-fund / signal provider with their 2 weeks stats and a couple of dollars from grandma for their birthday. what an utter joke.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
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