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My mentality - my problem

  • #81
  • Mar 5, 2013 3:29am Mar 5, 2013 3:29am
I am afraid you are right, I wish you weren't but you're right
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #82
  • Mar 5, 2013 4:06am Mar 5, 2013 4:06am
I only skimmed through the first post so apologies for that.

The biggest psychological issue I think for under capitalized traders is the REWARD for EFFORT mentality. You work hard to get an edge in the market and you do. You feel good for doing so and start trading it. The % look fantastic 2-5% a week on average after 10 weeks trading, wow if I can just maintain this for 2 years I will in a very good position. The $ figure is not important at this stage as you know % is all that matter and slowly you will grow.

Few months pass and you may hit a period of sudden draw down. Even though you know this is to be expected at some stage. Suddenly you start looking at that $ figure. Man... 3 months of all that stress, concentration discipline, missed social activity and all I have to show for it is a lousy $1000. Suddenly that $1000 is no longer 10% gain, but play money... pfft, $1000 fk it if I lose it.

I'm a good ass trader the rewards I could get are worth the risk.... Enter series of shifted mindset and higher leveraged trades and suddenly your $1000 profit for the year is $200...You get your end of term report card back from Mr. Market and you are surprised that he has given you a big red F.

In the back of our minds we have been programmed all our life to expect reward for effort. You can shift this aside for only a certain amount of time I think before you weigh up the pros and cons of breaking your discipline and suddenly "having a crack" seems to be the only sensible option.

Compare this to a profitable trader with say a 200K account. The difference between his good run and draw down period is just a short time without his nice trading income. Not hard for this trader to shake it off and get on with business as his effort has been rewarded all year.

The trader with the small account after his period of draw down will feel cheated in a way and revenge/ risky trading seems like a likely consequence. I've struggled with this all through my trading Journey, but it tends to affect me less and less these days mentally.

Hopefully this relates somehow to the thread, I'm quite sure a lot of traders here could relate.

REWARD for EFFORT

Try and pick a long term plan and just walk the path.. Easier said that done.
Time hides Nothing
  • #83
  • Mar 5, 2013 4:27am Mar 5, 2013 4:27am
Quoting CindyXXXX

REWARD for EFFORT

Try and pick a long term plan and just walk the path.. Easier said that done.
Just one more thing. A good mindset is to think Quality not Quantity in your trades (kind of like the opposite of my post count on this forum). Imagine what result your actions will produce after 1000 trades not just 1.

I'm increasingly obsessed with the psychology of trading. Absolutely love the topic.

G/L
Time hides Nothing
  • #84
  • Mar 5, 2013 4:58am Mar 5, 2013 4:58am
Quoting Eur Usd
it pisses me off when I see daily profit of 20p a day.
But that is your problem. Your lack of discipline. If you can't trade for 20p a day and stay focussed and on task then you will never be able to trade for 1k a day. The key is your discipline not the stake. Once you can trade for 1k a day you will be able to trade for 20p a day. So once you can trade for 20p a day you can trade for 1k a day. Stop fooling yourself.

I would also say you need to stop trading and start working on your psychological issues. You need to develop your self-awareness simple as that and you can't do that particularly successfully while so focused on 'trading well'. Close your charts down.
  • #85
  • Mar 5, 2013 5:17am Mar 5, 2013 5:17am
Quoting CindyXXXX
I only skimmed through the first post so apologies for that.

The biggest psychological issue I think for under capitalized traders is the REWARD for EFFORT mentality. You work hard to get an edge in the market and you do. You feel good for doing so and start trading it. The % look fantastic 2-5% a week on average after 10 weeks trading, wow if I can just maintain this for 2 years I will in a very good position. The $ figure is not important at this stage as you know % is all that matter and slowly you will grow.

Few months pass and...
GBP/USD
  • #86
  • Mar 5, 2013 7:43am Mar 5, 2013 7:43am
Quoting CindyXXXX
REWARD for EFFORT mentality

I think this is the point as well, that's why 500 Demo account is better for me (apparently not good enough LOL) than 10-20 Pounds real one. On 500 Demo I can see gains that would be equal to part time job, and it somehow keeps me running (ish).
On the other hand I know that If I had 10k account it would cause too much fear, as 1% here equals to 100 Pounds - 2 days working.
I am profit oriented (and am willing to be financially independent fast), especially in these hard times when one can never be sure about his job, in times of 5 years long crisis which will last at least 5 more years, in times when I cannot afford to buy a house - it all causes my greed.
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #87
  • Mar 5, 2013 9:57am Mar 5, 2013 9:57am
so I screw again, and behaved like amateur. I am restarting the trade explorer (I didn't loose much but I don't like the curve on my explorer's chart) and will do the best to behave better tomorrow. This is the way I screwed my accounts all the time. Each time teaches me something and I slowly remove bad habits (like trading while at work, or trading on silver which can give very good profits but looses me each time I start feeling confident), but still far to be profitable, maybe I never will be profitable.
I know it looks like being thick and giving up
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #88
  • Mar 5, 2013 9:59am Mar 5, 2013 9:59am
Quoting Eur Usd
I think this is the point as well, that's why 500 Demo account is better for me (apparently not good enough LOL) than 10-20 Pounds real one. On 500 Demo I can see gains that would be equal to part time job, and it somehow keeps me running (ish).
On the other hand I know that If I had 10k account it would cause too much fear, as 1% here equals to 100 Pounds - 2 days working.
I am profit oriented (and am willing to be financially independent fast), especially in these hard times when one can never be sure about his job, in times of 5 years long...
Ohhh wtf just happened to your curve. It was kicking ass up there today now on the red again. Trying to make it all back at once no doubt. Don't marry you're trades

Trade the market, not your curve. Trade in the NOW.

Experience and confidence goes a long way to quelling most of that other stuff you're talking about there.
Time hides Nothing
  • #89
  • Mar 5, 2013 10:01am Mar 5, 2013 10:01am
I know I am crap. that's why I started this thread. Am trying to get rid of bad habits, even got an idea to print out some small house I'd like to buy and hang above my monitor as motivation ;-)
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #90
  • Mar 5, 2013 10:05am Mar 5, 2013 10:05am
Quoting Eur Usd
I know I am crap. that's why I started this thread. Am trying to get rid of bad habits, even got an idea to print out some small house I'd like to buy and hang above my monitor as motivation ;-)
Why not start posting the trades your taking the reasons you took them and why you closed them. Would be interesting for all concerned no doubt.
Time hides Nothing
  • #91
  • Mar 5, 2013 10:06am Mar 5, 2013 10:06am
will do it from tomorrow. good idea to be honest ;-)
now I am off to gym. need to reset my brain
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #92
  • Mar 5, 2013 11:12am Mar 5, 2013 11:12am
this is some damn good advice - worth re-reading for any struggling trader.

Quoting khanderoo
FIRST I ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE A VALID, CLEAR TRADING PLAN.

By VALID: means it gives you an edge.
By CLEAR: means that you could follow it easily without a lot of thinking when trading.

These works for me:

Step ONE: Concentrate: I trade ONLY one pair ONLY on one time frame. This gives me a feel of the commodity I trade & a feel of what it will probably do next.
Step TWO: Patience for the A+ setup: IF you have traded enough, open a clean chart and use the MT4 history to put all trades that has been done...
  • #93
  • Mar 5, 2013 11:16am Mar 5, 2013 11:16am
Comments like this about yourself are not going to help your confidence. If you do not believe in yourself why bother posting and expect complete strangers to prop you up.

“The man who thinks he can and the man who thinks he can't are both right. Which one are you?”


― Henry Ford


Quoting Eur Usd
I know I am crap. that's why I started this thread. Am trying to get rid of bad habits, even got an idea to print out some small house I'd like to buy and hang above my monitor as motivation ;-)
  • #94
  • Mar 5, 2013 2:27pm Mar 5, 2013 2:27pm
I know what my mistakes were. Every time I fail I add something to my method.
I was trading on 4 pairs:
EUR/USD - every day
GBP/USD - I rarely trade it as It betrayed me few times, quite unpredictable imo
EUR/JPY - it's like a good wife that will cheat behind your back, or stab you with a knife, can give you good profits and last time it was moving like crazy, but the day of 600 pips movement down probably drained many pockets
AUD/USD - sometimes
of them four the good and stable profit I get only of EUR/USD so I will stick to them, and I will be only checking once a day the rest. If I'll notice strong trend then I'll get in, if not I'll forget and stick to one currency pair.

also another thing to avoid: my position size equals to about 0,3 of account balance, but when I am confident about the trend I do 3 positions at once. and it works with proper trend, but the point is I do it also when I shouldn't, and then i.s.o. loosing 1% I face loosing 3%, so I widen the s/l hoping it will go my way. This is what lost me today.

I will develop the method, I am close.

and on the end as I get a lot of negative feedbacks, that I seek attention etc. Guys, nobody is forcing to read it. I am not knocking at your house doors begging to listen to me. If you don't like the thread, don't read/visit, as simple as that.
for those supporting me - thanks very much for your advices ;-)
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #95
  • Mar 5, 2013 2:41pm Mar 5, 2013 2:41pm
I for one am not trying to criticize you or your method (which I don't know) but I am most definitely criticizing the adjectives you use to describe yourself and your attitude. Start with a better attitude and expect better results. We have all gone thru losing spells and had reckless trading days. So stay positive and instead of trying to eliminate or avoid them, try to learn from your mistakes.

I only wish the best for all traders. If you can figure it out, it is an easy way to make a hard living.
  • #96
  • Mar 5, 2013 3:02pm Mar 5, 2013 3:02pm
Quoting enochben
I for one am not trying to criticize you or your method (which I don't know) but I am most definitely criticizing the adjectives you use to describe yourself and your attitude. Start with a better attitude and expect better results. We have all gone thru losing spells and had reckless trading days. So stay positive and instead of trying to eliminate or avoid them, try to learn from your mistakes.

I only wish the best for all traders. If you can figure it out, it is an easy way to make a hard living.

thanks mate. I wasn't writing about you, it was in general, as I realise I may be annoying. As about your pm - thanks very much (I appreciate it) but will try to cope myself, at least for now ;-)

all I need is 30pips a day ;-)
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #97
  • Mar 5, 2013 3:16pm Mar 5, 2013 3:16pm
Quoting Eur Usd
discipline is my problem - you're right.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you're posting much the same things repeatedly, supposedly because you're hoping for a 'holy grail' piece of advice from somebody that's going to solve your problem.

But realistically, that's not going to happen. There's been some great advice posted already. It's now up to you as to whether or not you embrace it.

Discipline is not an intellectual problem, it's an existential one. You can get only so far by reading comments on a forum; ultimately the answer lies somewhere within YOU. Only YOU can change yourself.
  • #98
  • Mar 5, 2013 3:18pm Mar 5, 2013 3:18pm
Quoting hanover
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you're posting much the same things repeatedly, supposedly because you're hoping for a 'holy grail' piece of advice from somebody that's going to solve your problem.

But realistically, that's not going to happen. There's been some great advice posted already. It's now up to you as to whether or not you embrace it.

Discipline is not an intellectual problem, it's an existential one. You can get only so far by reading comments on a forum; ultimately the answer lies somewhere within YOU. Only YOU can change...

you are right. I'll just stick to do what I do and will post only if it is something new ;-)
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #99
  • Mar 5, 2013 4:27pm Mar 5, 2013 4:27pm
Quoting Eur Usd
and today I got crazy. That's why I don't want to trade real money yet. If I will handle till first April I will start from 50Pounds account
The point is I am afraid to loose. I am affraid to have less than I had before. I am a shit trader
I am assuming that you probably feel the world is gonna end whenever you enter a trade and it goes negative for a while. You probably trade too many pairs at one time as well. I personally stick to one pair mostly... and IF I do trade another it's due to something serious. Bad psychology and multiple pairs do not belong.
  • #100
  • Mar 5, 2013 4:58pm Mar 5, 2013 4:58pm
a
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
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