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Technical Analysis Fallacy

  • #38,721
  • Feb 6, 2013 7:12am Feb 6, 2013 7:12am
Any system whatsoever is bound to fail
sooner or later,not because the system is necessarily bad, but
because it’s inherent in the very nature of systems themselves.
The reason is that the markets are an accurate reflection of
life itself

always the same, yes, but always changing. Or, to be
more accurate, always the same underneath, always changing on
the surface.
just live a life, don't be hard.
  • #38,722
  • Feb 6, 2013 7:15am Feb 6, 2013 7:15am
Quoting shaukat113
Any system whatsoever is bound to fail
sooner or later,not because the system is necessarily bad, but
because it’s inherent in the very nature of systems themselves.
The reason is that the markets are an accurate reflection of
life itself

always the same, yes, but always changing. Or, to be
more accurate, always the same underneath, always changing on
the surface.
warrant buffet said it better.

"perfection is for God, for us only execellence." please show me a perfect system.
maybe this easlier. Just show me anything man engineered or created that had lasted say 1000 years.
eeer, how old is the earth?

ok rest time. goodnite.


regards
  • #38,723
  • Feb 6, 2013 8:44am Feb 6, 2013 8:44am
Oh shits.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91500B20130206

Commercial greed. No one punished?
Ok every body take bonus cut?
White collar crime laws not there yet?

OK lets see what next scheme, make sure stack 50% bonus to pay fines.
well at least gets 48% after haircut.
still better than profitsharing , only gets 25% retail. dealing only 0.05%

regards
  • #38,724
  • Edited 9:39am Feb 6, 2013 8:54am | Edited 9:39am
Quoting fti
Oh shits.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91500B20130206

Commercial greed. No one punished?
Ok every body take bonus cut?
White collar crime laws not there yet?

OK lets see what next scheme, make sure stack 50% bonus to pay fines.
well at least gets 48% after haircut.
still better than profitsharing , only gets 25% retail. dealing only 0.05%

regards


Chief,

good stuff
V
  • #38,725
  • Feb 6, 2013 9:37am Feb 6, 2013 9:37am
Inserted Video
  • #38,726
  • Feb 6, 2013 9:51am Feb 6, 2013 9:51am
Here is my new creation inspired by this...as i couldnt make a crosssover...i just went to aactive XO chief....and music is flowing...

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bogdan/1.html
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: image.jpg Size: 100 KB
  • #38,727
  • Edited 10:17am Feb 6, 2013 9:53am | Edited 10:17am
Quoting indianguyinny24
Here is my new creation inspired by this

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bogdan/1.html
wow, 3way tranducers.
you will need 4 mono block amplification.
otherwise need very good crossovers.
interesting.

regards

active crossovers good my friend, but you gonna need have very good ears match trancient to woofing.
watch colouriation effects on original print, every ones ears have colour preferences.
But make sure is not affect trancient pitch. this you can acertain by listening performer "S" in song.
if you hear spitting "S" you need lower pitch, and then adjust bass match.
make very certain also component noise is way below noise floor.
and run demagnetising sweeps on system for at least 15 mins warm up system componenets before sessions.
i no need tell you , but make sure you power supply very clean, easy just add lots ferrite cores.

Oh i noticed your mid and twitter not aligned with your sub.
if you align them verticle straight , will have wider sweet spot.
Like suggest you move your mid and twitter bracket to front.
  • #38,728
  • Feb 6, 2013 9:58am Feb 6, 2013 9:58am
Quoting fti
wow, 3way tranducers.
you will need 4 mono block amplification.
otherwise need very good crossovers.
interesting.

regards

Chief,...this is 3 way ones...

the tweeter is one of the most new and best in the world....

and this would be a 6 mono blocks....

i am making 4 of these you cna use one power supply smps for two of those that saves money...

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/ncore/1.html

you cna listen genuine user review here...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0

for low's i have Active XO smootheed plus a 400W amp...


Quoting fti
active crossovers good my friend, but you gonna need have very good ears match trancient to woofing.
make very certain component noise is way below noise floor.
The mic will do most measurement...and i will adjust with Active EQ and most imp my ear should make it sound good...
V
  • #38,729
  • Feb 6, 2013 10:14am Feb 6, 2013 10:14am
Quoting fti
wow, 3way tranducers.
you will need 4 mono block amplification.
otherwise need very good crossovers.
interesting.

regards

active crossovers good my friend, but you gonna need have very good ears match trancient to woofing.
watch colouriation effects on original print, every ones ears have colour preferences.
But make sure is not affect trancient pitch. this you can acertain by listening performer "S" in song.
if you hear spitting "S" you need lower pitch, and then adjust bass match.
make very certain also component noise is way below noise...

Chief,

what was your best rig when you used to listen....from power suply to cable to dac to transport to speakers...

what were they?

V
  • #38,730
  • Feb 6, 2013 10:26am Feb 6, 2013 10:26am
Quoting indianguyinny24
Chief,...this is 3 way ones...

the tweeter is one of the most new and best in the world....

and this would be a 6 mono blocks....

i am making 4 of these you cna use one power supply smps for two of those that saves money...

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/ncore/1.html

you cna listen genuine user review here...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0

for low's i have Active XO smootheed plus a 400W amp...




The mic will do most measurement...and i will adjust with Active...
6 mono block is over kill.
the twitters and mid can share the same mono block, is no effort drive the twitters, no need a seperate mono block for that.
If you like can always add sliding resistors for the twitters get best effects.
What the overall ohms of system? Try go as close to 2 as possible. Then you no need too high watts driver.
Use Big Caps on crossovers so will always have reserve power and bass will be tight & cleaner.

regards
  • #38,731
  • Feb 6, 2013 10:29am Feb 6, 2013 10:29am
Quoting fti
6 mono block is over kill.
the twitters and mid can share the same mono block, is no effort drive the twitters, no need a seperate mono block for that.
If you like can always add sliding resistors for the twitters get best effects.
What the overall ohms of system? Try go as close to 2 as possible. Then you no need too high watts driver.

regards

OK, but how do i drive tweet and mid with single amp with active XO?....

i tried making a 3rd order XO and it was disaster...i did all the simulation etc etc even took some high end people help at the end the sound came like crap...

moved to active and darn the sound came back....

ohms are not matched mid is 4ohm and tweeter is 8ohm even senstivities are different thats why needed the active XO...

V
  • #38,732
  • Edited 10:55am Feb 6, 2013 10:40am | Edited 10:55am
Quoting indianguyinny24
OK, but how do i drive tweet and mid with single amp with active XO?....

i tried making a 3rd order XO and it was disaster...i did all the simulation etc etc even took some high end people help at the end the sound came like crap...

moved to active and darn the sound came back....

ohms are not matched mid is 4ohm and tweeter is 8ohm even senstivities are different thats why needed the active XO...

V
thats why i suggestted , if you have very good ears, then you may like add sliding resistors after crossover for twitters,so that you have lots more control.
wow supper hard to drive twitters, any special reasons?
The sliding resistors, try not use the carbon contact types. The carbon contacts wears out fast. I not know if you can find copper to copper slider types.
Any way after you tune to sweetspot , won't be touching the sliders anymore. I know some peeps solders it dead. But some peeps like plays with it.

I a little concerned with your mismatched impedence. Normally is easier control that at the crossover level. But is not written in stone.
Are you using gold wounded twitters? if you are then no use copper resistance, breaks the gains.

regards
  • #38,733
  • Feb 6, 2013 10:44am Feb 6, 2013 10:44am
Quoting fti
thats why i suggestted , if you have very good ears, then you may like add sliding resistors after crossover so that you have lots more control.
wow supper hard to drive twitters, any special reasons?

regards

the problem is not driving tweeter problem is leaking freuqency i say...let me give an e.g.

i crossed these two at 1500 and 2000....even at 3000 where tweeter should had been playing mid was bringing its own sound from there...



here the XO i kinda used...its similar XO with two drivers in parallell making effective as 4 ohm

http://www.solen.ca/pdf/kits/ananyakit.pdf
  • #38,734
  • Feb 6, 2013 10:49am Feb 6, 2013 10:49am
Quoting shaukat113
the only thing that matters is price. When looking at markets, nothing else matters
at all, because everything else is reflected, summed up, discounted
in that one thing. Everything
Price is reality
thats nonsense shaukat.be very careful.markets are effective but not efficient.if markets are effecient then u wont have markets.
Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden interest [koran]
  • #38,735
  • Edited 11:20am Feb 6, 2013 11:08am | Edited 11:20am
Quoting indianguyinny24
the problem is not driving tweeter problem is leaking freuqency i say...let me give an e.g.

i crossed these two at 1500 and 2000....even at 3000 where tweeter should had been playing mid was bringing its own sound from there...



here the XO i kinda used...its similar XO with two drivers in parallell making effective as 4 ohm

http://www.solen.ca/pdf/kits/ananyakit.pdf
i c.
can always set twitter roll off at near 10kHz. using resistors and cap combination.
driving twitters below 10kHz seems why there's leak.
thats probably why you getting mirror waves and crosstalk of frequencies.
In fact i suspect theres some frquencies cancellation effects already. So you may actually be missing some details in the music?
In fact if the twitters driving below 8KHz you missing lots 12khz to 20k hz. Have you tested if you can hear above 12kHz.
I used to be able hear near to 15kHz but now i average near 12K. I cannot listen to pure high end anymore, because system plays above 12k i hear ringing in my ears, due to my health condition. and only way switch off the ringing is go sleep to reset.

regards
  • #38,736
  • Feb 6, 2013 11:18am Feb 6, 2013 11:18am
Quoting fti
i c.
can always set twitter roll off at near 10kHz. using resistors and cap combination.
driving twitters below 10kHz seems why there's leak.
thats probably why you getting mirror waves and crosstalk of frequencies.
In fact i suspect theres some frquencies cancellation effects already. So you may actually be missing some details in the music?

regards

then i need to get another mid as these mid can only go till 2k after that the distortion is way beyond...but this twweeter are amazig from 2k till 20 k...

smoother like piece of pie...


i could be missing some details but i doubt when i am in active xo there is no leak as Active is manging it quite nice....

i can hear till 17khz....

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/...-hearing-test/

BTW i am looking for PC as Active XO...lets see...



V
  • #38,737
  • Edited 12:00pm Feb 6, 2013 11:34am | Edited 12:00pm
Quoting indianguyinny24
then i need to get another mid as these mid can only go till 2k after that the distortion is way beyond...but this twweeter are amazig from 2k till 20 k...

smoother like piece of pie...


i could be missing some details but i doubt when i am in active xo there is no leak as Active is manging it quite nice....

i can hear till 17khz....

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/...-hearing-test/

BTW i am looking for PC as Active XO...lets see...



V
i.c.
ok can try debug the cross talk as much as you can.

PC is cannot agree. In fact on pc noise table worsens.
No high end peeps like use computers because of the jitter effects.
there no way get over it, many had tried.
Even using full ram load to play still the jitter is there.
i tried manage the comp jitter, many ways, only get more distortion introduced.
I believe is too much noisy components , introduced all sorts distortions also.
DAC is also suspect.

Only way is Digital out to external DAC, so no way sound crossover can be managed at computer. Sorry.snd external DAC need have big data buffering.

regards
  • #38,738
  • Feb 6, 2013 11:56am Feb 6, 2013 11:56am
Quoting fti
i.c.
ok can try debug the cross talk as much as you can.

PC is cannot agree. In fact on pc noise table worsens.
No high end peeps like use computers because of the jitter effects.
there no way get over it, many had tried.
Even using full ram load to play still the jitter is there.
i tried manage the comp jitter, many ways, only get more distortion introduced.
I believe is too much noisy components , introduced all sorts distortions also.
DAC is also suspect.

Only way is Digital out to external DAC, so no way sound crossover can be managed...

yea right now i hvae a PC running on RAM no hard drive no moving part external power supply...the linux fetches the song from server and music is transweffered to DAC on USB....

then DAC takesover...then active xo then amp then speakers...


V
  • #38,739
  • Edited 12:49pm Feb 6, 2013 12:06pm | Edited 12:49pm
Quoting indianguyinny24
yea right now i hvae a PC running on RAM no hard drive no moving part external power supply...the linux fetches the song from server and music is transweffered to DAC on USB....

then DAC takesover...then active xo then amp then speakers...


V
yes thats the correct way transport.

i.c, you not using crossovers, you using active preamps. Crossovers need be after amp.
in your chain, there's no way, control the frequency crosstalks.
you twitters are fed complete frequency range. so twitter efficiency is compromised.
and your twitter is crosstalking with your mid and woofer.


regards

Ok i give tyou the best chain for audiophile high end.
your transport is correct.
Check that your interconnect from your DAC out is absolutely flat response.
Some interconnects is coloured, and you not want colouration of sound before amplification.
if you like preamp, use passive preamp.
I not like colouration of sounds so i never use preamps, even passive preamps, because they introduce noise to analog signals.
then your amps, then the individual crossovers, from crossovers, depending on how good the crossovers you have, for me 10hz to 100hz to sub/woffers.
100h to 8Khz to mids , and 8Khz to 20khz to twitters.
This the best chain for absolute pure flat audiophile sounds.
Some systems drive mids from 100hz to 10kHz and 10k to 20khz. there is a difference in the sound, this iss big disagreement between the peeps. it depends on their ears.


The less stuff you have between your transport to your amp, means the less is your distortion.
This because the signal from DAC to amp part of the chain is very low amperes, so any small distortions in signal will be big distortions when amplified.
after amplification is necessary have good crossover so that the twitters and mids and woffer/subwoffers are fed the correct range of frequencies, at their most efficient performance.
  • #38,740
  • Feb 6, 2013 12:12pm Feb 6, 2013 12:12pm
Quoting fti
yes thats the correct way.

i.c, you not using crossovers, you using active preamps. Crossovers need be after amp.

regards

Active XO...so first active XO cuts the signal to hig mid and low ...and then passed the signal to amp and then to speaker...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Active_Crossover.svg


Passive XO


http://www.performing-musician.com/p..._Crossover.jpg
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