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The 3 Elements of a Successful Trader

  • #201
  • Jan 12, 2013 3:36pm Jan 12, 2013 3:36pm
Understanding two essential elements on your journey to trading success

Fear
Belief

Fear; most people's fear of losing money is GREATER THAN THE DESIRE to make money. Read that 100 times and let it sink in.

So called greed, in trading, is nothing more than a FEAR of losing money that has been made. It isn't greed, it's only fear.

And the delay in entering trades that causes many to get in near the top; fear. (But when everyone else is jumping in I should too). Fear subsided right at the top??

Realize that, in the beginning, you're probably one of those whose fear of losing money is greater than your desire to make money. And fix it.

Belief; why do certain things seem to work at least in the short term? Such as price bouncing off some moving average. Or sometimes an ABCD or head and shoulders pattern works.
Because, at the time, enough money "believes" that it will work and there aren't many factors to influence the contrary.

Imagine that you were trying to become a new citizen in a hostile Country. Would you try and forget about your own belief system.... and adapt (which might keep you from getting killed).

Just a thought or two about fear and belief.

Happy trading
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #202
  • Jan 12, 2013 3:45pm Jan 12, 2013 3:45pm
Quoting GnarlyPips
I don't understand what point you're trying to make. Do you understand just how big a million standard lots is? It's a hundred-billion dollars. Like you said, it takes "millions" to move price, but I doubt you actually know just how much it really takes. I don't, but I'd like to learn what I can.
No disrespect intended but I didn't say a million standard lots, I said a million currency units. Be it USD, Euros, Yen, whatever. My point is that most of the time you won't have any say in the market as your orders will be dealt with in-house, as orders from clients aren't enough to bother going to the banks with. So the idea that you're influencing the market in any way shape or form is largely moot. And really, that's a big advantage.
  • #203
  • Jan 12, 2013 3:53pm Jan 12, 2013 3:53pm
Quoting Kanzler
No disrespect intended but I didn't say a million standard lots, I said a million currency units. Be it USD, Euros, Yen, whatever. My point is that most of the time you won't have any say in the market as your orders will be dealt with in-house, as orders from clients aren't enough to bother going to the banks with. So the idea that you're influencing the market in any way shape or form is largely moot.

All it takes is ten standard lots for one million us dollars. I'm the one who said million standard lots. My point is that even though a micro lot isn't much in the markets, you still count for it in the market equation unlike that of a demo market. If I wanted to place a ten standard lot on a demo market, it wouldn't be in the markets, unlike that of a real ten standard lot trade.

I feel that you're mixing up retail and institutional orders or something. Maybe retail brokers swap retail trades, but how do we know when that's happening and not the broker just countering the trade? Does this happen with ten standard lots? Is ten standard lots considered retail or institutional?
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #204
  • Jan 12, 2013 3:55pm Jan 12, 2013 3:55pm
Quoting cat
Not sure i know what you mean - If I place a trade on a simulated/demo account I'm using the same live charts that I always use and the price given on the demo account is exactly the same as shown on a live one.
That´s not what I meant there. Myself before I place a live trade I often check if multiple time frames are confirming my position. Also I check on correlations like the stock market and gold. These charts need to be active/open in order to make my trading decision. This is assuming that one will use a trading simulator in weekend.

From what i saw/know a trading simulator is limited to one chart/pair, one specific TF, nothing more. Way too limited for my taste. Only good for observing price action around key areas but a lack of information in order to open an actual position.
  • #205
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:04pm Jan 12, 2013 4:04pm
Quoting GnarlyPips
All it takes is ten standard lots for one million us dollars. I'm the one who said million standard lots. My point is that even though a micro lot isn't much in the markets, you still count for it in the market equation unlike that of a demo market. If I wanted to place a ten standard lot on a demo market, it wouldn't be in the markets, unlike that of a real ten standard lot trade.

I feel that you're mixing up retail and institutional orders or something. Maybe retail brokers swap retail trades, but how do we know when that's happening and not...
From my understanding of how things work, a broker will manage any trades they can within the confines of their institution to increase execution speed as well as profit as they can pick up the entire spread (normally only a portion of what you see as the spread is what they profit, which is the pip or two markup). I'm sure that if you increase your order size, there's a greater likelihood of the broker having to go to the bank to execute the transaction. But we're not talking about traders who are trading regular lots anyway, not even mini, we're talking about microlots. Sure, it's possible that a micro trader's miniscule order is going to bump the broker's book over the edge to where they need to order interbank, but it's not likely. We don't need to know when it happens to know that it's likely to happen the vast majority of the time, especially when we know the broker profits from dealing themselves.

I know where you're coming from on this, but I don't really see that particular point as any kind of "benefit" over trading demo. There are several other important reasons that someone learning should trade micro or mini over demo but being a part of the market equation is hardly one of them with as negligible effect as it has.
  • #206
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:13pm Jan 12, 2013 4:13pm
Most of this thread is now becoming (has become) TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to anything relevant.

forget about it
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #207
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:19pm Jan 12, 2013 4:19pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
Most of this thread is now becoming (has become) TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to anything relevant.

forget about it


hmmmm...... and WHY praytell would I say such a stupid thing. mmmm.... the title of the thread is "3 Elements of a Successful Trader" yet some seem to want to argue about what a mini or micro lot is or is not.

I don't get it. Please catch me up
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #208
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:22pm Jan 12, 2013 4:22pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
hmmmm...... and WHY praytell would I say such a stupid thing. mmmm.... the title of the thread is "3 Elements of a Successful Trader" yet some seem to want to argue about what a mini or micro lot is or is not.

I don't get it. Please catch me up
Are you the OP? A moderator? What's that - "No"?! I've already put my thoughts in on the three elements, and decided to reply to another poster. Surely it fits into some train of thought originated pages back from the original topic.
  • #209
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:25pm Jan 12, 2013 4:25pm
............
let the chart to be your chauffeur ... -Forexmnstr-
  • #210
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:26pm Jan 12, 2013 4:26pm
Quoting Kanzler
. There are several other important reasons that someone learning should trade micro or mini over demo but being a part of the market equation is hardly one of them with as negligible effect as it has.
Someone learning should trade micro accounts if they have little starting funds or mini account if they have slightly higher, expendable funds.

Except in the very beginning stages, forget about demo because if you don't really have your ass on the line then you are risking nothing and will learn very little.

how 'bout that ???
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #211
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:28pm Jan 12, 2013 4:28pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
Someone learning should trade micro accounts if they have little starting funds or mini account if they have slightly higher, expendable funds.

Except in the very beginning stages, forget about demo because if you don't really have your ass on the line then you are risking nothing and will learn very little.

how 'bout that ???
Couldn't agree more.
  • #212
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:31pm Jan 12, 2013 4:31pm
Quoting Kanzler
Are you the OP? A moderator? What's that - "No"?! I've already put my thoughts in on the three elements, and decided to reply to another poster. Surely it fits into some train of thought originated pages back from the original topic.
Sorry, it just doesn't. That's why I asked to be "caught up". And actually, it doesn't originate into any train of thought I have ATM And no, I'm not going to read through 15 pages of worthless drivel b'coz you're not that important

kapish ?
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #213
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:34pm Jan 12, 2013 4:34pm
Quoting forexmnstr
............

I'll see your

and RAISE you


Your BET !!!
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #214
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:34pm Jan 12, 2013 4:34pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
Sorry, it just doesn't. That's why I asked to be "caught up". And actually, it doesn't originate into any train of thought I have ATM And no, I'm not going to read through 15 pages of worthless drivel b'coz you're not that important

kapish ?
I think I'm going to just add you to my ignore list and say whatever the fuck I want. Don't like it? Contact OP or a moderator.
  • #215
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:36pm Jan 12, 2013 4:36pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
hmmmm...... and WHY praytell would I say such a stupid thing. mmmm.... the title of the thread is "3 Elements of a Successful Trader" yet some seem to want to argue about what a mini or micro lot is or is not.

I don't get it. Please catch me up

The point I'm trying to make is that one shouldn't trade demo, at all. 1,000,000 standard lots will dent price in the real world. In the demo world, the charts will fool you into thinking that's how the trade will actually pan out.

And while a micro trade may bump the brokers exposure to the tipping point, you can't just sit there and say that the trade is negligible. If you do, then you can say the same about the rest, then where's the exposure at? Why even have a tipping point?

In my mind, leaving stones unturned makes a trader go down the path of being unsuccessful. Now, unless you want to whine about that some more, why not contribute?
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #216
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:39pm Jan 12, 2013 4:39pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
Understanding two essential elements on your journey to trading success

Fear
Belief

Fear; most people's fear of losing money is GREATER THAN THE DESIRE to make money. Read that 100 times and let it sink in.

So called greed, in trading, is nothing more than a FEAR of losing money that has been made. It isn't greed, it's only fear.

And the delay in entering trades that causes many to get in near the top; fear. (But when everyone else is jumping in I should too). Fear subsided right at the top??

Realize...
Quote
Most of this thread is now becoming (has become) TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to anything relevant.

forget about it
You´re right. It went off-topic there. On-topic again. Personally I think "believe" is essential in so many ways, not just in a way certain pattern is a self fulfilling prophecy when enough people believe in it. The biggest element of being a successful trader is believing in yourself. Streak of losses, even the slightest form of criticism towards one can really hurt confidence and therefore the believe that he or she can succeed. In the past I made a topic regarding the importance of believing in yourself. From my personal experience it comes when one is able to isolate himself(yes, totally opposite of what most guru's claim!), to create his/her own view about the market, and then in turn build a technical, mental and management system around those believes. When you have this settled, only then it might be a good idea to even consider following a mentor so you can compare your own methods with his/her ways of working. He or she will be able to give you a fresh view, new ideas which helps you in further fine tuning your own personal system. I would stay AWAY from most forums, unfortunately most are full with crap.

In short, a successful trader #1believes in him/herself and this great believe will make that individual create his/her own view about the market.
Based on this strong believe that individual will use his #2creative mindset(think out of the box) and create his own personal method that fits his personality. A successful trader knows that he will achieve his goals eventually, and he/she also knows that no forums whatsoever are required for this. Pure observation of the market and its surroundings is enough. This type of trader is #3able to isolate him/herself, he can stand on his own feet.

"Do not follow the herd outside forex, do not follow the herd inside Forex". As you know, the far majority is losing.

Here's a post I made several months ago that show the importance of believing in yourself:


Believing in yourself
There’s a well known phase in Forex learning curves that I for now will simply call “the guru” phase.
This phase will let the trader feel like a small fish in a wide ocean. Countless of books, guru’s and systems will show up to learn you “the way” of how to trade Forex. If you’re unfortunate you will most likekly throw several thousand of dollars into some system or method you hardly even understand yourself.

Sure, there are multiple elements that you can eventually impliment into your own trading system, everyone does in some way . However, Its a different case when you fully use a predefined system created by someone else. Small chances you will become profitable on a consistent base. I know there’s a good chance that this statement will get a lot of criticism because surely there are people around that claim to be succesfull with pre-defined/bought systems. I do think this group however will be very small.

The reason for this? Believing. I believe that the correct amount of order in chaos, discipline & consistency in a trader can only be achieved when that trader is learning from previous experience on a system created by him/herself.

Ask yourself, how many times have you not read articles about the mental state of traders, and how many times did you actually take solid action on a consistent base right after? Reading or listening the same story a few times is different from believing , Most information received will simply fade in time unless you actually condition yourself into believing it. The same goes for predefined systems / bought systems. You are obtaining the information but will not believe in it because you did not condition yourself into believing in your system.
Even more so you don’t feel responsible for any red pips created on such systems. Not learning from mistakes and therefore not making your own solutions which obviously results in not conditioning yourself in believing these solutions.

In my opinion the very best way to learn Forex is to simply trade isolated as much a possible with keeping outside guru/system influences as limited as possible. Watch price, asks yourself why price interacts with “x” area and why it reacts in certain way. Come to conclusions yourself and try to limit implimenting other people conclusions. Find and experience self constructed trading and management methods as much as possible. Find a synergy between them in which you believe , quite an achievement! You should be the one that creates selfmade trading and money management methods, to find them while stumbling on internet afterwards! Not the other way around!

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=368298
  • #217
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:52pm Jan 12, 2013 4:52pm
Quoting Robertk
You´re right. It went off-topic there. On-topic again. Personally I think "believe" is essential in so many ways, not just in a way certain pattern is a self fulfilling prophecy when enough people believe in it. The biggest element of being a successful trader is believing in yourself. Streak of losses, even the slightest form of criticism towards one can really hurt confidence and therefore the believe that he or she can succeed. In the past I made a topic regarding the importance of believing in yourself. From my personal experience it...
Excellent point. There are a few threads that start to talk about this, but often times they get shot down pretty quickly, once the person suggests that perhaps it's not all psychology that causes failure. You can believe in your MA cross strategy all you want, but it isn't going to make you consistent profits. Same thing the other way - you can have a perfect system that makes a fortune once a year but loses every other time with a net gain by December, but if you don't believe it can work then you're going to give up on it because you believe you're just wasting your time. I think a background knowledge on why a method works is important to build that confidence.
  • #218
  • Jan 12, 2013 4:58pm Jan 12, 2013 4:58pm
Quoting Robertk

In short, a successful trader #1believes in him/herself and this great believe will make that individual create his/her own view about the market.

Nice post. It should be read in its entirety (above)

But keep in mind this isn't about the video that became so popular for a time about wishing the Universe to send you something while you sit on the couch wishing for it.

At any rate I've said more than enough and can only imagine that I didn't offend anyone.

Best of luck/skill
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #219
  • Jan 18, 2013 3:12am Jan 18, 2013 3:12am
Quoting cat
Exactly the same as the qualities successful fighter pilots had during WW2

- Experience - those with less than 100 hours training in their combat machines had a far greater chance of being killed.

- Spatial awareness - meaning the ability to see all that is going on around you and react accordingly, but this only comes with experience.

- Mastery of fear - Pilots who allowed the fear of death affect their performance and their judgement were soon shot down and killed.

- Aggression and/or decisiveness...

Nice comparison & similarities..
  • #220
  • Jan 18, 2013 3:17am Jan 18, 2013 3:17am
Quoting Robertk

Believing in yourself
There’s a well known phase in Forex learning curves that I for now will simply call “the guru” phase.
This phase will let the trader feel like a small fish in a wide ocean. Countless of books, guru’s and systems will show up to learn you “the way” of how to trade Forex. If you’re unfortunate you will most likekly throw several thousand of dollars into some system or method you hardly even understand yourself.
Yes, have the Believe + Confident for one future success is very important.
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