Where to start in this business? | Page 2 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Chinese Yuan to start trading at the Merc. 2 replies

Start Trading Real Money Early 0 replies

Start Trading: Throw Those Excuses Out the Window 0 replies

Good start in live trades! 3 replies

When do the Asian/Aus/Kiwi sessions start and end? 4 replies

Attachments: Where to start in this business?
Exit Attachments

Where to start in this business?

  • #21
  • Dec 31, 2012 7:18pm Dec 31, 2012 7:18pm
Just trade with a simulator. Trade at any time of the day, even if you got a job you can do it! For practice anyways.

Theres a free simulator somewhere around here in forex factory (but you c an only trade one timeframe, one currency at a time and have only one position open at a time) and theres a simulator with more features called forex tester.
  • #22
  • Dec 31, 2012 7:19pm Dec 31, 2012 7:19pm
Its a cheap hobby, eh?
  • #23
  • Dec 31, 2012 7:43pm Dec 31, 2012 7:43pm
Hi pinkiaiii, at the risk of jumping into a thead with such great thinkers I'm going to give you my two cents worth.

All successful traders (myself included) understand exactly what you are conveying in your message below and we all feel for you. (well mostly all not sure about the wise-arse in this thread though lol)

The answer is NO! You will not find any system in it's entirety that you can learn and make fortunes with either here or anywhere else on the net, for free or for any price. Why? Because any *system that is worth it's salt would be worthless a short time later once the masses get hold of it. It would be like say I had unlimited funds and I put out an email with my address and said: "Everyone listen! I have too much money and I need to give trillions of it away!"

What do you think would happen? Do you think I'd get any email requests? Ubet I would and in no time at all the world would be flooded with money I gave away making it virtually worthless in no time at all. All successful traders with a peanut size or larger brain knows this and those that don't lost their opportunity when they blabbed their little system away.

1st, you need to stop all trading that has anything to do with real money, put the real money you make into a bank for later use. The reason you need to do this is even if you learn to trade successfully (which is very possible if you stick with it) once you do, you will still need some semblence of dicipline before you break out the real coin. All traders including the most successful traders lose some trades. If you are willing to lotsize 10% of your account on a hunch then what are you likely to risk if you have a system that's 90% accurate? You'll go broke as fast (or faster) than you got rich. So first learn to dicipline yourself by trading without expectation of success. For instance, say you knew the next trade you made was going to be a loser? How much would you trade?... 10%? (I hope not)

Also on this note you will learn how to win and lose without feelings. All real successful traders trade with very little emotion. Not because they take drugs to keep them calm but because trading becomes more of a real business where, *it's just business. I lose one? It's just business... I win 6 - just business... the account doubles/tripples in 2 or 3 weeks... it's just business that's all. While when a noob wins one it's... "oh my gosh... I won that... lets see if I can pick another winner right now before I get left out".

2. Once you learn to control your risk habits into something managable, open a micro account where you can trade 10 cents or even 1 cent per pip (if they exist in your area). Trade that account until you can double it without some lucky big bang trade which doubled over night because you placed a huge lot size and lucked out on it. But instead, do it with a succession of several trades over a few months or at least weeks.

3. Once you do #2 successfully then and only then can you begin to call yourself a novice trader because what you gained between these steps are 1. the ability to control your risk and the knowledge that small profits add up into big gains very quickly and 2. some semblence of a trading plan or system that not only works but you can depend on. Yes they do exist but you'll never find one if you're constantly lementing over losses and aching over the inability to win.

Happy New Year!
God Bless and give your the strength to struggle into the winning circle.


Quoting pinkiaiii
So heres a short story of my trading history,i started trading forex about two years ago,so far im down about 3 grand euro in total over this period of time,i got couple of books like trading in the zone ,and japanesse candle stick charting techniques,but my biggest problem so far is lack of funds,patience and jumping into trades without any analysis just with the hope of scoring that golden opportunity where market gonna move towards your direction,also i lack discipline which makes my trading carrier a disaster as i tend to risk more then 10%...
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #24
  • Dec 31, 2012 8:19pm Dec 31, 2012 8:19pm
Hey Silat50,
I am positive I have at least 20,000 hours behind the charts and it took way over 10k before I finally cracked the nut. Knowing this I can definitely say it was worth it but I can also say it was really very trying. There were many days where I thought I must simply quit! But then I'd see my future without a possibility of successful trading and that was much worse than at least having hope learning from night to night with very little sleep even though there were nothing to show for it but losses. Living your life where everyone in it will look at you like you're crazy. All your closest friends and family telling you you should stop. These are the things all very successful traders must go through before breaking through. Honestly, I can't imagine any other job title, "Successful Trader" that could be so hard to attain and yet so worth it.

Quoting Silat50
Also, keep this sad fact in mind. We know now it takes an average of 10,000 hours of practice to be called an expert at something. The sad part is that on just this board alone, just on Forex Factory, many have done that much and a lot more......and cant even get to break even. In almost any other thing in the world, if you put in 10,000 hours to study itr, you would have the contentment to be able to teach it at least, to make a living from it, even if there are many experts around. Only Forex looks at all your effort and if you dont have one of...
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #25
  • Jan 1, 2013 7:37am Jan 1, 2013 7:37am
Quoting TraderJoe
Hi pinkiaiii, at the risk of jumping into a thead with such great thinkers I'm going to give you my two cents worth.

All successful traders (myself included) understand exactly what you are conveying in your message below and we all feel for you. (well mostly all not sure about the wise-arse in this thread though lol)

The answer is NO! You will not find any system in it's entirety that you can learn and make fortunes with either here or anywhere else on the net, for free or for any price. Why? Because any *system that is worth it's salt...

clap clap clap

salaam
  • #26
  • Jan 1, 2013 8:39am Jan 1, 2013 8:39am
Quoting TraderJoe
Hi pinkiaiii, at the risk of jumping into a thead with such great thinkers I'm going to give you my two cents worth.

1st, you need to stop all trading that has anything to do with real money, put the real money you make into a bank for later use. The reason you need to do this is even if you learn to trade successfully (which is very possible if you stick with it) once you do, you will still need some semblence of dicipline before you break out the real coin. All traders including the most successful traders lose some trades. If you are willing...
Brilliant post for any new trader out of the gate! Words to trade by for certain.

The only thing I would add is that if you are having trouble developing your own system, find a mentor to teach you a method so that you can maybe take it and make it your own. Nothing will ever replace the screen time needed to cross the bridge to profitability but having a mentor can shorten the learning curve to building the discipline side of the house.

Trading is a business nothing more and nothing less. But it's a business that has unlimited upside growth.

Nice post TraderJoe!
Nothing is impossible, with a willing mind!
  • #27
  • Jan 1, 2013 7:22pm Jan 1, 2013 7:22pm
Thank you my friend. I shall go and add a voucher to you for being smart enough to see the wisdom in that post

TJ

Quoting Trader_V
Brilliant post for any new trader out of the gate! Words to trade by for certain.

The only thing I would add is that if you are having trouble developing your own system, find a mentor to teach you a method so that you can maybe take it and make it your own. Nothing will ever replace the screen time needed to cross the bridge to profitability but having a mentor can shorten the learning curve to building the discipline side of the house.

Trading is a business nothing more and nothing less. But it's a business that has unlimited upside growth....
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #28
  • Jan 1, 2013 8:51pm Jan 1, 2013 8:51pm
Get a mentor
who already made mistake's you dont have to make also
i had jared .f martinez from mti . The fx chief
  • #29
  • Jan 1, 2013 10:43pm Jan 1, 2013 10:43pm
Quoting TraderJoe
Hey Silat50,
I am positive I have at least 20,000 hours behind the charts and it took way over 10k before I finally cracked the nut. Knowing this I can definitely say it was worth it but I can also say it was really very trying. There were many days where I thought I must simply quit! But then I'd see my future without a possibility of successful trading and that was much worse than at least having hope learning from night to night with very little sleep even though there were nothing to show for it but losses. Living your life where everyone...
Trader Joe,

Your honesty is refreshing.Thank you. But may I ask you....though you consider yourself a "winning professional trader" TODAY....would you have a plan B if that system just dwindled over the next 2 months to being barely profitable?

I think I hit on something very,very important here, Even in the great book "Market Wizards" they didnt talk about having a plan B. Well.....WE NOW know a lot more than we did back then and that is even the greatest systems will eventually fail, or at least make one go back to paper trading it. Which I say is why half the market wizards had all that time to spend interviewing with people. They made their millions.....AND THAT WAS PLAN B!!! Plan C is developing a whole new system and way of thinking,and many people, even the best like Livermore, Dow, Elliot and others of their ilk....died broke, They couldnt fix the ship before it sank.
  • #30
  • Jan 2, 2013 3:00pm Jan 2, 2013 3:00pm
Quoting Silat50
Trader Joe,

Your honesty is refreshing.Thank you. But may I ask you....though you consider yourself a "winning professional trader" TODAY....would you have a plan B if that system just dwindled over the next 2 months to being barely profitable?

I think I hit on something very,very important here, Even in the great book "Market Wizards" they didnt talk about having a plan B. Well.....WE NOW know a lot more than we did back then and that is even the greatest systems will eventually fail, or at least make one go back to paper trading it. Which...

Hi Silat50,
I think I understand where you're coming from here, if I missed your main meaning let me know.
No mater what you read or who you speak to this factual cliche remains, "there's nothing new under the sun" but the question is just how many people know that same information?

I also believe it is correct that even the greatest systems will fail, but what if you could step outside of any system and still profit with a high degree of accuracy for instance like Neo did in the matrix?

Systems that say buy when this crosses that are mechanical and can be copied and reproduced by anyone including a computer which is why 99.9% of all EA's fail. The ones that succeed are created, owned and operated soley by the originator and are never sold or given to the public.

As far as having a plan goes, for sure plan A is to find a niche and make as much money as possible (while your method is working of course) and plan B is plan A. If you have a strong plan A then I don't think you'll ever need a plan C and if you do, maybe working for the man would be a better choice.

Speaking about those "Market Wizard" traders, even 70% of all "I'm Rich" lottery winners go broke! Millions gone in a few years. So being wealthy is not only a bank account thing, it's a way of thinking and living thing too. Just because one has money does not make them rich but those who live with a "Rich man Poor man" outlook on life will be truely rich whether he has a huge bank account or just a modest one.

TJ
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #31
  • Jan 2, 2013 4:56pm Jan 2, 2013 4:56pm
Pinkiaiii let me start by saying that if you hold on tight, you can get there, but prepare yourself for a bumpy road.

You seem a nice fellow, I just need to stop paying attention to your 'writing' style; no dots, no commas, no first capital letters, etc. you know Also, if I'm right, your native language is same as mine, so that's a plus

Roofx and TraderJoe are talking sense.

Quoting Roofx
Trading forex is essentially gambling.
Quoting TraderJoe
You will not find any system in it's entirety that you can learn and make fortunes with either here or anywhere else on the net, for free or for any price.
But let me tell you my story briefly, so you can reflect on it and make a decision - to quit or to stay.

It all started around 8 years ago and it lasted approx. a year. Within that year I blew up 3 times - 2 margin calls and one self destruction (I've depleted my own account by overtrading). I've stopped, I was angry, I was upset, I felt like I'm a failure. I left Forex to rot.

Two years gone by since then and one day in the second hand book shop I've accidentally stumbled upon a book called "Reminiscences of a stock operator" by Edwin Lefevre. I was hooked, again, but I didn't start trading and I didn't even open a new account. Several other books followed and then it dawned on me. I was GAMBLING, I was UNDER-CAPITALISED !

Even though I've managed to answer important questions to my personal failures it took me another 3+ years to get it right and start 'skinning this bit*h'.

But ! Do you think I make a living out of it? I'm not, even though my account balance is close to the size of deposit on the decent house here in UK. All this knowledge and experience taught me and helped me to stop dreaming and realise one thing - forex is not a get rich quick scheme! If you can get a yearly return 2-3 times bigger on your capital than what you would get in an average savings account, then you are doing really really well in this business! Now stop here and think about it, how much money (capital) would you need to realistically make a living out of it? My calculator told me that I should be 'ok' in the next 2 years or so.

It all starts with 'micro'

My 2 pence (you are free to pick it up)
.
  • #32
  • Jan 2, 2013 6:08pm Jan 2, 2013 6:08pm
piniaiii,

also look into other instruments, little guys have advantage in that we can trade whatever we want. I would put a lot of importance on trading deriatives as well as understanding a lot of other tools out there.
  • #33
  • Jan 2, 2013 7:35pm Jan 2, 2013 7:35pm
Quoting manniMe
Roofx and TraderJoe are talking sense.

But let me tell you my story briefly, so you can reflect on it and make a decision - to quit or to stay.

It all started around 8 years ago and it lasted approx. a year...
I was GAMBLING, I was UNDER-CAPITALISED ! ...
forex is not a get rich quick scheme!...
If you can get a yearly return 2-3 times bigger on your capital...
how much money (capital) would you need to realistically make a living out of it? My calculator told me that I should be 'ok' in the next 2 years or so.
It all starts with 'micro'...

Hi ManniMe,
Very entertaining piece to read. It made me laugh then cry then think about it.
I was UNDER-CAPITALISED ! ...
Taking from the lines above, speaking about Under-Capitalization, personally I do not believe in a under capitalized situation unless you're already near a margin call, so what is Under-Capitalization really? If you have a 1000$ account and you risk 3% to 5% on each trade (lets say $50) then are do you have enough capitalization to continue? I think yes. And if you have 10,000 for sure you could risk $500 per trade and still be just fine. What if your account is $100? Well then you can still do it on a mini or nano account with no problems at all.

I was GAMBLING ...
Although you can gamble while trading, real trading is not gambling. A noob trading real money is gambling. A seasoned trader trading real is not. When a seasoned trader takes a trade he knows his chances are (whatever his system percentage is) %80 - %95 that he will win that trade. That's not gambling.

forex is not a get rich quick scheme!...
No it's not but it can be a get rich business if your T's are crossed and I's dotted well and one has spent the time (blood and guts) necessary to get to a point to be able to double tripple his account in a mater of weeks/months. Make no mistake about it, once a trader gets to a point to be able to choose the trades he knows are going to be great successes then all he has to do is wait for those trades, bet fairly big (say 10%) on 3:1 to 8:1 RR's and it doesn't take long to see your account grow quickly. You really only need 1 or two of these a week.

how much money (capital) would you need to realistically make a living out of it?
Totally depends on your needs and expectations. For me personally I could live nicely on 8k a month but then again maybe I would like to give more to charity. The bottom line is, once one learns to pull cash from the markets the sky becomes the limit and I suppose this is where one finds out what their personal greed level really is

It all starts with 'micro'
Very true words! Everyone starts with micro, EVEN THE ONES THAT HAD MONEY TO BEGIN WITH because to learn to trade really successfully everyone (at least that I know) lost it all more than once trying to crack this nut.

Very nice chatting with you MannieMe... come back
TJ
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #34
  • Jan 2, 2013 7:52pm Jan 2, 2013 7:52pm
very nice read thanks everyone in this thread for sharing there words and wisdoms
  • #35
  • Jan 7, 2013 1:41pm Jan 7, 2013 1:41pm
Quoting pinkiaiii
So can anyone advice is there any type of courses even from beginners level online that would cover today's banking system and how does it affect the markets today,id be glad to find some website that would offer that opportunity to learn as to become entry level student into broker companies with some sort of diploma or certificate,to advance further.Im not looking for stuff that brokers offer like online webinars and other nonsence with few indicators and promises to make you rich as you progress,as we know indicators are always lagging behind...
I think this occupation is worth fighting for. One of the most important things you could do is simply use less leverage. Why? Less leverage will give you more time to learn, that's what you need. You can learn everything one way or the other, but if at the end of the learning curve you have no capital, your lesson is over. Trading has a lot more unknowns that you could imagine. Everyone here will tell you they have a lot to learn, on every time frame something new happens every once and a while. This IS the market, that's how it operates - it forces you out of your comfort zone, and as soon as you learn something and start making money, the market changes. That's what it does. It can be a regulatory change, an unexpected news etc. In this kind of environment, your only safe guard is how much leverage you use. You have to use less leverage (less greed, sleep better at night) than everybody else. When conditions change - the highest leveraged traders (the small traders) will be flushed out, and you will survive for another lesson. At the end of your journey, if were a good student, you may end up richer than you started
  • #36
  • Jan 7, 2013 5:46pm Jan 7, 2013 5:46pm
Right at the beginning or in this case, a redo on some of the basic forex lessons. Pinky, concentrating on fundamentals, right at the beginning is not a good move. Yes, you can use fundamentals for trading but after some experience with solid results to back up your trades. And do a revamp of your trading strategies.
  • #37
  • Last Post: Jan 7, 2013 7:06pm Jan 7, 2013 7:06pm
The first thing you should master is the concept of risk. Once you do this, you have completed 90% of the steps in becoming a successful trader.
0 traders viewing now