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vsa with Malcolm

  • #23,601
  • Edited 1:40pm Jan 2, 2013 7:34am | Edited 1:40pm
Quoting Scipio
Excellent work...ty
Quoting HiddenGap
Thank you very much. That's what makes this thread so special. We're not about trying to out do one another. We're about traders helping traders. When somebody contributes, everybody benefits-that includes the contributor.
Quoting Gxp1
Thanks for compilation.Its a great reference point.
You're welcome. I've spent the last hour or so trying to figure out how to add chapters to the PDF. As far as I can tell It's pretty much impossible without getting Adobe pro. Which i've no intention of spending money on. I could do it through formatting in Open Office but I can't get my head around it. So we'll have to make do without chapters
  • #23,602
  • Jan 2, 2013 1:42pm Jan 2, 2013 1:42pm
Quoting KinsaleForex
You're welcome. I've spent the last hour or so trying to figure out how to add chapters to the PDF. As far as I can tell It's pretty much impossible without getting Adobe pro. Which i've no intention of spending money on. I could do it through formatting in Open Office but I can't get my head around it. So we'll have to make do without chapters
Ok, another quiet night at work.

Finally got chapters working.

Latest and last version of this PDF. I'll probably go back and put together the first quiz that HG did a couple of weeks ago as well.

It won't let me edit the original post so the new version is attached here. Added chapters and tidied up formatting.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Dec 29th Quiz.pdf   523 KB | 687 downloads
  • #23,603
  • Edited Jan 3, 2013 2:32am Jan 2, 2013 11:59pm | Edited Jan 3, 2013 2:32am
Quoting HiddenGap

What about any of that speaks to bullishness? This has to be No Demand. There is no way that the Smart Money is interested in higher prices at this time.
I asked you to ignore the previous candles. Candle 1 in both cases does not show any strength, but I do not agree about your thoughts that a test always means strenght. SM are testing almost always both in bear and bull market. And a test that fails means weakness.

Quoting HiddenGap

No Demand is defined as a narrow range UP bar on volume less than the previous two bars.
Some prefer the No Demand to close in the middle or low of its range. Some prefer the interval to make a higher high than the previous interval. Yet at the core, remains the idea that No Demand in its base form is an UP bar.
This is my definition of Hidden test, please correct me if I am wrong:

Hidden Test: narrow range up bar on volume less than the previous two bars, that closes in the upper portion of its range. I prefer that the interval makes a LL than the previous interval, but you said in your previous post that a Test (or Hidden Test) could be an inside bar.
  • #23,604
  • Jan 3, 2013 4:29am Jan 3, 2013 4:29am
Quoting Scipio
I asked you to ignore the previous candles. Candle 1 in both cases does not show any strength, but I do not agree about your thoughts that a test always means strenght. SM are testing almost always both in bear and bull market. And a test that fails means weakness.



This is my definition of Hidden test, please correct me if I am wrong:

Hidden Test: narrow range up bar on volume less than the previous two bars, that closes in the upper portion of its range. I prefer that the interval makes a LL than the previous interval, but you said in your...
Hi Scipio,

In VSA there is no term used to define a test for demand. Not entirely sure why, but there you are.

A test in the right place, always means the SM are wanting to raise prices. If the test fails, they may not be able to raise prices imiediately but, they will want to soon. The only place where a test doesn't indicate SMs intentions to raise price is in Hawaii.

A test might be hidden because it is an up bar. Some here have it hidden because the volume is too high but, I don't like that description. If the volume is too high it becomes either a Basic Test or a failed test. A test doesn't HAVE to make a LL. The ideal test would tho.
  • #23,605
  • Jan 3, 2013 5:27am Jan 3, 2013 5:27am
Okydokey, the first quiz put together in a PDF as well.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Dec 16th Quiz.pdf   182 KB | 1,035 downloads
  • #23,606
  • Jan 3, 2013 5:34am Jan 3, 2013 5:34am
Quoting Intel
Hi Scipio,

In VSA there is no term used to define a test for demand. Not entirely sure why, but there you are.

A test in the right place, always means the SM are wanting to raise prices. If the test fails, they may not be able to raise prices imiediately but, they will want to soon. The only place where a test doesn't indicate SMs intentions to raise price is in Hawaii.

A test might be hidden because it is an up bar. Some here have it hidden because the volume is too high but, I don't like that description. If the volume is too high it becomes...
Hi Intel, ty for your explanation...I have to disagree, take a look at the chart below, it is EU 5min of today.

Around the fibo50% line early in the morning there was some sign of congestion...No doubt that we were on distribution phase. At the end of distribution phase, bearish trend can start, but look at the volume...it is insane because it is decreasing. Around 50% SM are testing to find out if there is demand left (and in this case they will absorb it). No demand is found and a sane bearish trend can start.

A test that fails is a way to look out for floating demand

What do you think?
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  • #23,607
  • Jan 3, 2013 5:55am Jan 3, 2013 5:55am
Quoting Scipio
Hi Intel, ty for your explanation...I have to disagree, take a look at the chart below, it is EU 5min of today.

Around the fibo50% line early in the morning there was some sign of congestion...No doubt that we were on distribution phase. At the end of distribution phase, bearish trend can start, but look at the volume...it is insane because it is decreasing. Around 50% SM are testing to find out if there is demand left (and in this case they will absorb it). No demand is found and a sane bearish trend can start.

A test that fails is a way to...
I won't argue with any of your analysis. But here's the rub, THERE IS NO VSA TERM FOR A TEST OF DEMAND.
I will personally recognise a test for demand but, Tom doesn't mention one anywhere in his books. ALL of the tests he describes are testing for supply only.

I don't know why he wouldn't use the test for demand in a similar manner to the test for supply but, he doesn't.

Thats not to say it doesn't go on.....of course it does......and I personaly use them. However, if we are here to teach/help others learn VSA, then we should teach/help them with the basics BEFORE adding our own ideas. If we do not, we will be diluting Toms work and not showing what VSA actually is.

BTW did you catch the current long trade?
  • #23,608
  • Jan 3, 2013 7:51am Jan 3, 2013 7:51am
Quoting Intel
I won't argue with any of your analysis. But here's the rub, THERE IS NO VSA TERM FOR A TEST OF DEMAND.
I will personally recognise a test for demand but, Tom doesn't mention one anywhere in his books. ALL of the tests he describes are testing for supply only.

I don't know why he wouldn't use the test for demand in a similar manner to the test for supply but, he doesn't.

Thats not to say it doesn't go on.....of course it does......and I personaly use them. However, if we are here to teach/help others learn VSA, then we should teach/help them...
No longs for me today...the market is still too weak
  • #23,609
  • Jan 3, 2013 8:30am Jan 3, 2013 8:30am
Intel,

I'm just curious as I only have the pdf version of master the markets, but on page 34, there is--- never mind I see what you're saying.
There is a "lack of demand" and a "test for supply" but no "test for demand" as far as terminology goes.

I suppose they accomplish the other side of the coin, if there is no demand, there is inherently more supply, where as if you test for supply and no bears come out then there is weakness allowing the price to rise.

Thought provoking, why he doesn't mention it working in both ways. Maybe it is implied? Seems unlikely considering how comprehensive the book is.
  • #23,610
  • Jan 3, 2013 8:57am Jan 3, 2013 8:57am
Some clear signs of accumulation on EU, this is a 5 min chart...

Comments?
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  • #23,611
  • Jan 3, 2013 10:01am Jan 3, 2013 10:01am
Quoting Scipio
Some clear signs of accumulation on EU, this is a 5 min chart...

Comments?
What do the purple cirlces reprsent? Also right now we are sitting at a very important support level 3100. This was strong resistance on the daily chart and now we need to see if it holds as support on this re-test. Accumulation and Distribution on a 5 min chart IMHO is a very fickle thing because there are bigger things at play on the higher TF's. Again IMHO if you are trading a 5 minute chart then you don't need to worry about ACC or DIST just look for climax volume and then other signs that fall in line with whatever the climax was. But be very aware of where the key support and resistance levels are even if only on the 5 min chart. These are normally going to be quick in and out trades with smaller TP's and SL's so one needs to be aware and quick in their entries and exits. I consider most of my 5 minute trades as scalps and never expect much more than 1:1.

I hope you don't mind but I threw two lines on your chart. The low of the upper UHV bar and the high of the lower UHV bar and inbetween these two levels is only 15 pips and really a dead zone. We have actually failed a 3rd time at that upper line since you posted you chart.

Are they accumulating at 3100? Perhaps but if so we will see it on something higher than a 5 minute chart. Don't get too wrapped up in ACC and DIST when trading lower TF's... look for climax and then at least another 2 matching SOS or SOW (in the right place of course) and if the next recognizable support and resistance is far enough away to get at least 1:1 then pull the trigger.

This is all of couse my humble opinion and just my 2 cents...
Attached Image
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #23,612
  • Jan 3, 2013 10:28am Jan 3, 2013 10:28am
Quoting pres78
I hope you don't mind but I threw two lines on your chart. The low of the upper UHV bar and the high of the lower UHV bar and inbetween these two levels is only 15 pips and really a dead zone. We have actually failed a 3rd time at that upper line since you posted you chart.

Are they accumulating at 3100? Perhaps but if so we will see it on something higher than a 5 minute chart. Don't get too wrapped up in ACC and DIST when trading lower TF's... look for climax and then at least another 2 matching SOS or SOW (in the right place of course)...

Those are not failures! look at the volume...while prices rise, volume decrease: SM are withdrawing from the market but they are still bullish...They think to absorb further supply at lower prices.

I disagree with you...a chart whatever is the TF never lies...
Also for me this is all of couse my humble opinion and just my 2 cents.

There is only one master and he is Hidden Gap
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  • #23,613
  • Jan 3, 2013 10:42am Jan 3, 2013 10:42am
Quoting Scipio
Those are not failures! look at the volume...while prices rise, volume decrease: SM are withdrawing from the market but they are still bullish...They think to absorb further supply at lower prices.

I disagree with you...a chart whatever is the TF never lies...
Also for me this is all of couse my humble opinion and just my 2 cents.

There is only one master and he is Hidden Gap
Quoting Scipio
Some clear signs of accumulation on EU, this is a 5 min chart...

Comments?
Then perhaps next time when you say Comments? Change it to "please I want no one but HG to offer their comments", that will save everyone a lot of wasted time and keep it so no one else has to put up with a rude reply from you when they simply offer their comments as you asked.

BTW decreasing volume on an upmove is considered "bearish volume" and does not easily represent SM pulling out of the market but still being bullish as you state. Decreasing volume on an upmove does not imply that SM are still bullish in any way.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #23,614
  • Jan 3, 2013 10:48am Jan 3, 2013 10:48am
Quoting pres78
Then perhaps next time when you say Comments? Change it to "please I want no one but HG to offer their comments", that will save everyone a lot of wasted time and keep it so no one else has to put up with a rude reply from you when they simply offer their comments as you asked.
Sorry I really don't undersand what you are saying...
  • #23,615
  • Jan 3, 2013 11:12am Jan 3, 2013 11:12am
Quoting Scipio
Sorry I really don't undersand what you are saying...
He's saying not to ask for comments and then give a rude reply to a comment you do get.

By all means disagree with people, that's what brings healthy debate. But make it constructive.

Pres does have a point, you seem to have contradicted yourself.

Quoting Scipio
Those are not failures! look at the volume...while prices rise, volume decrease: SM are withdrawing from the market but they are still bullish...They think to absorb further supply at lower prices.
Price is rising on falling volume, i.e. price is rising on no demand i.e. price is failing at the highlighted levels.
  • #23,616
  • Jan 3, 2013 11:19am Jan 3, 2013 11:19am
Quoting Scipio
....... There is only one master and he is Hidden Gap
This is not me being humble. I am not a master. I am a student just like everyone else. I read a post by Pres78 and know that I am better for having done so.
I am honored if my posts are teaching you something. But make no mistake about it. Post by Pres78 teach me as well.


On to the chart.

I have attached a 12 minute chart of roughly the same time period.

I too see what looks like accumulation taking place.

Notice the amount of down bars with volume greater than average that are closing off their lows. The first few don't confirm with the next bar up, but they still show signs of strength/demand entering the market.
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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,617
  • Jan 3, 2013 11:21am Jan 3, 2013 11:21am
Quoting KinsaleForex
He's saying not to ask for comments and then give a rude reply to a comment you do get.

I'm sorry, I speak a very poor english...Maybe I have been misunderstood...
  • #23,618
  • Jan 3, 2013 11:30am Jan 3, 2013 11:30am
Those first big volumes was because pushing through demand.
Heavy buying but still in downtrend.
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  • #23,619
  • Jan 3, 2013 11:43am Jan 3, 2013 11:43am
Quoting Scipio
I'm sorry, I speak a very poor english...Maybe I have been misunderstood...
Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other then. Let's just move on
  • #23,620
  • Jan 3, 2013 11:47am Jan 3, 2013 11:47am
Quoting HiddenGap
On to the chart.

I have attached a 12 minute chart of roughly the same time period.

I too see what looks like accumulation taking place.

Notice the amount of down bars with volume greater than average that are closing off their lows. The first few don't confirm with the next bar up, but they still show signs of strength/demand entering the market.
Demand at 3100 is well to be expected as this is an important level from many TF's and the point of my post was never mean't to argue whether it was or wasn't accumulation that was occurring. It was more about keeping in perspective what we are looking at and where we are on the chart that we are trading no matter the TF and was a reply to Scipio's post and chart but as always was a reply to the thread for people to ponder and argue and offer their thoughts.

Since you posted a chart with you thoughts I will also but mine is a 15min and tells me that while there is buying there is also supply close by and the buyers are struggling to make any progress so whether there is some ACC or not the path of least resistance will win.

My Chart

Points 1, 2, 3 and 4 all show rejections, failures, SM not buying whatever you want to call it. SM where not interested in higher prices at this level. Time 1 and 2 we went up on reduced volume ending as ND's into the close of that UHV, WRB. Point 3 we had two increased volume upbars and then two ND's with the fourth upbar barely closing above the high of the first UT bar. Point 4 is a hidden UT with two ND's shortly after.

Point A we see UHV and a close well off the low but we see three bars after making no progress so if there was buying in that bar is what not enough to push up the market.

This could be why we get Point B which is another UHV (not as high as point A but still UH in the grand scheme) this time we get a little better reaction from the buyers but still the buying leg was on 3 straight ND's so again not real buyers follow through.

Again the point was not be arguing the possible ACC just to offer a differing view.

Also we are down 110 pips on the day so a buyers retrace or even just sideways ranging is not unexpected.
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Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
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