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vsa with Malcolm

  • #23,581
  • Dec 31, 2012 2:49pm Dec 31, 2012 2:49pm
Quoting Scipio
HG, silly question...what is the difference between a test that does not make LL (ie bar #7) and a NS? Yust curious about it...it is obvious that bar #7 means weakness.

Happy New Year from Italy
Here's a picture for you. Hope it helps.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: info 5.png Size: 33 KB
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,582
  • Dec 31, 2012 3:00pm Dec 31, 2012 3:00pm
Quoting Scipio
HG, silly question...what is the difference between a test that does not make LL (ie bar #7) and a NS? Yust curious about it...it is obvious that bar #7 means weakness.

Happy New Year from Italy
With your indulgance HG,

Like pres says, there is a difference in the dynamics of the bar but, the major difference comes when you can 'read' the intent behind the formation of the bar.

A NS appears when SM stop buying up all of the stock and let the price drop a little to see what happens.

A test appears when SM want to mark/force the price down in order to check that where there once was supply, there is now none.

It is all about the mindset of the SM.
  • #23,583
  • Dec 31, 2012 3:10pm Dec 31, 2012 3:10pm
Quoting Intel
With your indulgance HG,

Like pres says, there is a difference in the dynamics of the bar but, the major difference comes when you can 'read' the intent behind the formation of the bar.

A NS appears when SM stop buying up all of the stock and let the price drop a little to see what happens.

A test appears when SM want to mark/force the price down in order to check that where there once was supply, there is now none.

It is all about the mindset of the SM.
Completely agree. I just wanted to focus on the "look" of the bar. That may have been a mistake as you know the importance "intent" of the bar plays into the correct analysis......
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,584
  • Dec 31, 2012 3:12pm Dec 31, 2012 3:12pm
Quoting HiddenGap
Awesome. Really awesome.

Kudos to all who participated in this little exam.

I have to say that there is some real gold in the responses. If I was tech savvy enough, I would take all the responses and put them in a PDF.

I hope nobody gets too upset after reading what follows.

One of the intents of this test was to convey that in most cases names don't matter. If you look at the intervals in question, there was at least two possible responses for every one of them. That's why the second part was to include some "justification"....

Great stuff HG. Always helpfull to me, when these types of 'test' come up. Always something to learn. like when pres mentioned about the 3bar supply zone......I didn't catch that!
I hope the 'new' VSAers got stuck into this.

BTW bar No 9.. I missed this one all together looking back at it.....it's just aswell I missed it, cos I have no idea which it might have been!!!!!!!

Happy new year to all of you. It's good to speak with you all again
  • #23,585
  • Jan 1, 2013 9:26am Jan 1, 2013 9:26am
Quoting HiddenGap
Here's a picture for you. Hope it helps.
Hi HG.

I don't think it is so simple...Take a look at the picture, same chart, different trigger line (forget how the trigger lines have been drawn, consider only 1,2 and 3 bar).
The issue is position...

What do you think?

Thanks to Intel and Pres for the useful responses.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ImmagineA.png Size: 17 KB
  • #23,586
  • Jan 1, 2013 9:42am Jan 1, 2013 9:42am
Quoting HiddenGap
Here's a picture for you. Hope it helps.
What do you mean by intervals and why are you showing a high bar with a low bar. Why the comparison. Of course excuse me for asking a dumb question. But I have read MTM and I didn't see a reference for interval. I do know the basic meaning. An interval is the distance between two points or something like that and it is also used in mathematics meaning a symbol of some type. Been a while since algebra.
  • #23,587
  • Jan 1, 2013 9:56am Jan 1, 2013 9:56am
Quoting sweatx
What do you mean by intervals and why are you showing a high bar with a low bar. Why the comparison. Of course excuse me for asking a dumb question. But I have read MTM and I didn't see a reference for interval. I do know the basic meaning. An interval is the distance between two points or something like that and it is also used in mathematics meaning a symbol of some type. Been a while since algebra.
An interval in this instance means one bar or one candlestick. If it's a 5min chart, one 5min interval is one bar/candlestick.
  • #23,588
  • Jan 1, 2013 11:25am Jan 1, 2013 11:25am
Quoting HiddenGap
Awesome. Really awesome.

#1: Because we have a wide spread interval that closes off its low on climatic volume (black), this is Climatic Action. If you see this as a squat, then you are using some advanced reasoning. We tend to use the short hand definition for squat- narrow range on increasing volume. However the actual definition of a squat is decreasing MFI and increasing volume. But here's the rub. Under that definition any interval with increasing volume is potentially a squat.
Is MFI means Money Flow Index? Do we use that in our analysis?

Quoting HiddenGap
OFFICIAL KEY:

1. SOS

2. SOS

3. SOW

4. SOS

5. SOS

6. SOW

7. SOS

8. SOW

9. SOS
I could't get these abbrevations.

Thanks,

LO-Trader
  • #23,589
  • Jan 1, 2013 11:30am Jan 1, 2013 11:30am
Quoting pres78
Little short I took. HG's chart got me interested in the 12 minute chart so I dug out Polomine's indi and brought up a 1min chart with a 12x mutliplier...
Hi pres78,

Can you please share the link to this indicator?
Out of curiosity. Why are we doing the analysis on 12 minute and not on 15 minute?

Thanks,
LO-Trader.
  • #23,590
  • Jan 1, 2013 11:41am Jan 1, 2013 11:41am
Quoting LO-Trader
Is MFI means Money Flow Index? Do we use that in our analysis?



I could't get these abbrevations.

Thanks,

LO-Trader
SOS - sign of strength
SOW - sign of weakness
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #23,591
  • Jan 1, 2013 11:51am Jan 1, 2013 11:51am
Quoting LO-Trader
Hi pres78,

Can you please share the link to this indicator?
Out of curiosity. Why are we doing the analysis on 12 minute and not on 15 minute?

Thanks,
LO-Trader.
Personally I do my analysis on many TF's. I take trades on anything from 1 minute all the way to daily but my main trades are taken on 5 min up to 1 hour into mostly 1 hour volume zones. I trade mainly using MT4 so I don't have anything but the standard time frames. Others that use different platforms have many different TF's but its up to you as a trader to determine what TF or TF's work best for your trading style and personality.

As for Polomines Indi you can get it from this forum through the attachments. They are called volume and bars bundle. It's something like v5 and its 2 Indi's. One groups the volume and the other the bars. It does have its glitches as sometimes you need to refresh both Indi's to correct the bundling. Something fun to play with if want to test other TF's.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #23,592
  • Edited Jan 2, 2013 7:42am Jan 1, 2013 11:58am | Edited Jan 2, 2013 7:42am
Quoting HiddenGap
Awesome. Really awesome.

Kudos to all who participated in this little exam.

I have to say that there is some real gold in the responses. If I was tech savvy enough, I would take all the responses and put them in a PDF.
Ask and it is given.

It's a quiet new years day at work so I took some time to put this together into a PDF. It's not the prettiest thing in the world but i'm sure it'll suffice. I'm not sure if it was intentional but in the post where you gave us the answers to each bar, you had them out of sequence (4,5,8,6,3,9,7,1) The only change i've made is to put these in order. Let me know if you want it changed back to how it was. Also, if you have some thoughts on Bar 2 I can add these in as well.

Maybe if we can turn this into a weekly thing? I'd be more than happy to put together a PDF each time. I'll learn about adding chapters and such as we go!
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Dec 29th Quiz.pdf   514 KB | 1,574 downloads
  • #23,593
  • Jan 1, 2013 12:10pm Jan 1, 2013 12:10pm
Quoting pres78
Personally I do my analysis on many TF's. I take trades on anything from 1 minute all the way to daily but my main trades are taken on 5 min up to 1 hour into mostly 1 hour volume zones. I trade mainly using MT4 so I don't have anything but the standard time frames. Others that use different platforms have many different TF's but its up to you as a trader to determine what TF or TF's work best for your trading style and personality.

As for Polomines Indi you can get it from this forum through the attachments. They are called volume and bars bundle....
Hi pres78,

Thanks for your help.
I got it from post17977

LOT
  • #23,594
  • Edited 1:20pm Jan 1, 2013 12:26pm | Edited 1:20pm
Quoting LO-Trader
Is MFI means Money Flow Index? Do we use that in our analysis?



I could't get these abbrevations.

Thanks,

LO-Trader

MFI = Market Facilitation Index

= (bar high - bar low)/volume

It is not a VSA term. It comes from Bill Williams' ideas for using volume to trade with. 'Trading Chaos' is well worth looking in to.

EDIT - it's also where the term 'Squat' comes from.
  • #23,595
  • Jan 1, 2013 1:35pm Jan 1, 2013 1:35pm
Quoting KinsaleForex
Ask and it is given.

It's a quiet new years day at work so I took some time to put this together into a PDF. It's not the prettiest thing in the world but i'm sure it'll suffice. I'm not sure if it was intentional but in the post where you gave us the answers to each bar, you had them out of sequence (4,5,8,6,3,9,7,1) The only change i've made is to put these in order. Let me know if you want it changed back to how it was. Also, if you have some thoughts on Bar 2 I can add these in as well.

Maybe if we can turn this into a weekly thing? I'd...

Excellent work...ty
  • #23,596
  • Jan 1, 2013 1:35pm Jan 1, 2013 1:35pm
Quoting Intel
MFI = Market Facilitation Index

= (bar high - bar low)/volume

It is not a VSA term. It comes from Bill Williams' ideas for using volume to trade with. 'Trading Chaos' is well worth looking in to.

EDIT - it's also where the term 'Squat' comes from.
I agree. All 3 of the Bill Williams books are a good read.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #23,597
  • Jan 1, 2013 3:08pm Jan 1, 2013 3:08pm
Quoting Scipio
Hi HG.

I don't think it is so simple...Take a look at the picture, same chart, different trigger line (forget how the trigger lines have been drawn, consider only 1,2 and 3 bar).
The issue is position...

What do you think?.....
I love this chart. You are showing something so far advanced and not VSA. What you are showing is how the placement of a line (call it support or resistance or Fred) can affect perception.

This has very big implications in trading and does not get talked about near enough.

But let's step back and look at what VSA says a No Demand is.

No Demand is defined as a narrow range UP bar on volume less than the previous two bars.
Some prefer the No Demand to close in the middle or low of its range. Some prefer the interval to make a higher high than the previous interval. Yet at the core, remains the idea that No Demand in its base form is an UP bar.

While the placement of that line may change perception, it does not change the fact that the bar is a narrow range UP bar on volume less than the previous two intervals.

Now let's take a look at the bigger picture.

I hate that you use candles. Since you do, I will talk about the open as well in this brief look.

We have had three dark (open>close) candles that are all closing lower and making lower lows. The next interval is a white interval (open>close) that fails to make a lower low or a higher high then the previous candle, but closes up. Yet it is closing up on volume far less than any of the three intervals that closed down. And from a candle perspective, this white candle has the smallest body in the last four intervals (inclusive).

So our UP candle has the smallest body, the smallest range (NR4) and the smallest volume. What about any of that speaks to bullishness? This has to be No Demand. There is no way that the Smart Money is interested in higher prices at this time.
Unfortunately, the next candle does not confirm the weakness of the No Demand by closing DOWN. Nevertheless, this next candle does show weakness in and of itself. Personally, I would not call it an Up Thrust. The idea that Supply is swamping Demand, however, is clear.

But let's not get too far off track. The key is that candle #1 meets the base definition of No Demand.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Info 2.png Size: 132 KB
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,598
  • Jan 1, 2013 3:41pm Jan 1, 2013 3:41pm
Quoting KinsaleForex
Ask and it is given.

It's a quiet new years day at work so I took some time to put this together into a PDF. It's not the prettiest thing in the world but i'm sure it'll suffice. I'm not sure if it was intentional but in the post where you gave us the answers to each bar, you had them out of sequence (4,5,8,6,3,9,7,1) The only change i've made is to put these in order. Let me know if you want it changed back to how it was. Also, if you have some thoughts on Bar 2 I can add these in as well.

Maybe if we can turn this into a weekly thing? I'd...
Thank you very much. That's what makes this thread so special. We're not about trying to out do one another. We're about traders helping traders. When somebody contributes, everybody benefits-that includes the contributor.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,599
  • Jan 2, 2013 4:36am Jan 2, 2013 4:36am
Quoting KinsaleForex
An interval in this instance means one bar or one candlestick. If it's a 5min chart, one 5min interval is one bar/candlestick.
So an interval is basically a bar in time. Whether it be 5 minutes or an hour or a day. It is the amount of time a bar is moving in price, or has moved in price. I guess! Thanks!
  • #23,600
  • Jan 2, 2013 5:13am Jan 2, 2013 5:13am
Quoting KinsaleForex
Ask and it is given.

It's a quiet new years day at work so I took some time to put this together into a PDF. It's not the prettiest thing in the world but i'm sure it'll suffice. I'm not sure if it was intentional but in the post where you gave us the answers to each bar, you had them out of sequence (4,5,8,6,3,9,7,1) The only change i've made is to put these in order. Let me know if you want it changed back to how it was. Also, if you have some thoughts on Bar 2 I can add these in as well.

Maybe if we can turn this into a weekly thing? I'd be...
Thanks for compilation.Its a great reference point.
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