BMI - MacD Magic Monster

Hansie. (Also to everyone)

OK, I took a look at the pictures and the Pama Gann indicator (on the pics, I didn't download the indicator). To me, I see no useful way to use that indicator. I am not saying it is a bad indicator. If a person understands what the creator of the indicator knows and sees, then maybe it is useful.
If you were to go long at the start of the green stripes, and close when they end, you end up with some good and some bad trades, same with the red. If you trade using the thin yellow line (the price itself) and where it breaks through the Orange and red lines, you are in essence doing a limited Magic Monster type of style but there is not enough in just 2 ema's to see the full patern.

In short, this indicator (for me that is) is way too complicated. I only have an IQ of 7 so I can't understand the indicator.

Everything is based on patterns. Nature does not use a calculator. Nature also does not have a straight line. Everything is curves and moves in waves, just like a woman, or a cat. The way the price moves is just like a woman (or a cat) she can change direction for no reason that any man can understand or see, but to her it is simple and makes perfect sense. Just because men do not understand the reason, does not mean there is no reason. Men are simply blind to that reason.

If a man asks a woman why she is upset with him, then he sleeps on the couch because he asked! She can not understand how he can be so blind and NOT know.

Prices are exactly the same. If you look closely at any chart, you will see that there is a clear style, a way that she walks. Different pairs walk with different styles. UsdJpy is very different from GbpJpy. These women have different personalities. Grumpy Grandma (GbpJpy) is a bit of a schizophrenic. Sometimes she is smooth and sensual with a nice sway of her hips. Other times she is choppy and argumentative throwing Kung Fu moves up and down so fast it hits you sideways,

If you ever saw the movie with Al Pacino called "Scent Of A Woman," you will understand what I mean. It is not about 'calculating' when GrumpyGran will be changing direction, or how high or low the price will go. That is an accountant thing. A thing of numbers and maths. GG (GrumpyGran) doesn't work on numbers. She, just like any woman, works on the feel of things. The mood of things. It is by becoming familiar with her style, her energy that we can begin to understand her mood. At the same time we can not ever think "I know exactly what she will do next." She, just like any person, doesn't want to feel like their every move, thought and action is under investigation. Like they are spied on every minute of the day. The Judge and Jury can not ever be friends with those they judge. Those that are judged can not ever give freely of anything to those that judge them.

We need to get the idea of calculating and figuring her out so we can use her to our ends and means out of our minds. We enter into a relationship with the energy of the currency. If we try to be her master, in a sly way, she will be our master. If we are her friend and companion, she will be our friend and companion. By knowing her as a friend, we eventually begin to recognise her little wink or frown that tells us (her friends) that we should NOT think that she is going north (like everyone else at that time thinks) but she is actually going south.

Hi BlueMental,

Not bad for a guy with only an IQ of 7... i never thought about trading in these terms.. very fascinating.. i gave this thread a speed reading, but now i will read it from the beginning with much more attention.

Thank you
Sabrina

P.S. I know nothing about the cube of 9... i only know that in geometry is a sort of hypercube with a lot of vertices, edges and square faces.. i would like to learn more about it.. how is it related to trading?

Gann Theory

You can find descriptions of the Gann Wheel, The Cube of 9 and the Gann Circle floating around on the net.

The most important aspect of anything related to Gann Theory is that Price is the X axis on the chart, and Time is the Y axis, and they are co-dependant on one another. By knowing the price, one can determine the when of critical changes.

The Cube of 9 is a 'simple' presentation of 9 numbers that make up a square. Starting with 1 in a square in the centre of the page, you draw a square to the left in which you put the number 2, then above number 2 you draw another square, being number 3. A square to the right, number 4, to the right again, number 5, down, number 6, left number 7, left number 8, left number 9.

The sequence is a clockwise placing of integers, increasing by one and it continues until, you run out of paper, ink, sanity, patience or years in your life. In other words it goes on infinitely.

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3...beof9start.png

The horizontal thin lines (the row of numbers ...11, 2, 1, 6, 19...) are 0 degrees left of number 1 (centre of the square) while 180 degree goes to the right of number 1. The vertical column (...15, 5, 1, 8, 23...) are 90 and 270 degrees.
The grey squares are 45, 135, 225 and 315 degrees.
The blue lines are the halfway degree markers between it's neighbours. Sp the number 22 falls halfway between 21 (225 degrees) and 23 (270 degrees) so 22 is 247.5 degree or 225+ (45/2) = 247.5.

The square of 3 is 9. Notice that the first grey square on the 315 degree line (bottom left of no. 1) is 9.
The next odd number after 3 is... (obviously) 5, and the square of 5 is 25. The second cycle of numbers, or the second grey square in the 315 degree line is 25.

If you use even numbers, the square of 2 is 4. The first grey square in the 135 degree line (top right of no.1) is NOT 4, but notice that exactly 1 square to it's left is. The square of the next even number, 4 is 16. Notice that the second grey square in the 135 degree line has immediately to it's left, the number 16.

This sequence continues into infinity. The square of the even numbers are 1 to the left of the 135 degree line, while the square of the odd numbers are on the 315 degree line.

This means that one full cycle of the square (me dunno why they call it the 'cube' of Nine when it is a square) has at opposite corners (1 square off for 135) 2 squares. Call them Summer and Winter. Yin and Yang, Male and Female... You get the idea. ( A side note, one 'law' of Bucky Fullers is that you can not have a Unity of anything less than 2, and one cycle is two squares, not 1)

So why are all the other lines there?

Well the first square of 2, being 4 lies 1 to the left of top right(135 degrees) and the second square of 3, being 9, lies on the bottom left (315 degrees). 315-135 = 180 degrees of travel. 3-2 (the base numbers for the two respective squares) = 1.

One full cycle of the square gives us two squares of two sequential numbers (2 and 3 in this case) yet the 'travel' in degrees is only half of 360 (180 degrees)/ So the value of 1 (half of a Unity of two) is represented in 180 degrees of the cycle. The 360 degrees represents the value of two, the conclusion of the Unity of two.

Following that, if we were to 'travel' 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees. 90 degrees being 1/4 of 360 degrees, and also represents 1/4 of the full cycle of the unity of two, we get 2/4=0.5
So would we get the square of 1.5 by traveling only 90 degrees?

Let us check. Since we only have the first 3 cycles on the picture above, now is the time to download the *Excel file attached (assuming you haven't drawn a 'cube of 9' yet yourself,) and we can check this theory.

* I saved it in the Excel 2000 (xls) format as well, for those who might not have the Office7 or later version (xlsx). If there is a mess up, blame Microsoft, not me.

So, since your Cube of Nine has just expanded from 2 cycles to a couple more than two, you can check easily if the squares of odd numbers fall in the grey squares on bottom left (315 degrees, remember, o degrees is left side of the 'cube' number 1 being the centre.) and Even numbers squared being one square to the left (counterclockwise) of the top right grey squares (135 degrees).

Two examples.
717 squared = 514089
718 squared = 515524

For ease of navigation in the excel file, it is easiest (since there are quite a few numbers in there) to zoom out to max. then you can slide the scroll thumbs (I think it is called that) to +- the middle of the scroll bars. You then click on or near where you are looking, and when you zoom in, excel keeps focus on the selected cell. Alternatively (the easiest) is do a 'find' (Alt F) but you must choose 'find values' in the find options. Excell 7 has it in a dropdown titled 'look in' I can't recall what the other ones have it as, but it is there somewhere.

For ease of finding, I used the two numbers that are the outside limits of this cube of 9. In other words look at top right corner and bottom left.

Now, after all that, let us test that theory...

717.5 squared = 514806.25

So, from the bottom left corner (717^2 = 515524) we go up (clockwise as our value is higher than 17, the corresponding numbers must be higher than 514089. We travel 90 degrees. (to top left corner), and what do we find there?

Surprise surprise, one square below the grey squares, we find 514806

717.25^2=514447.5625 (2 = 360 degrees, 1 = 180 degrees, 0.5 = 90 degrees, 0.25 = 45 degrees etcetera.)

So travel down from top left (since 717.25 < 717.5) 45 degrees and you end up on the 0 degree line and the number, one ccw (counter clockwise) from there is... You guessed it. 514447.

The blue lines on the Cube are the next division. In other words 45 degrees/2 (22.5 degrees more or less than their neighbours.) which is 0.25/2 = 0.1225

You can keep on dividing the cube this way into infinity. If you draw a big enough cube, you can calculate squares and square roots to greater accuracy than our computers. Ok, the cube would probably span a couple of galaxies...


How can you know which number is the square root? (Yes, I hear you thinking that).
Easily, if you choose a number in the 315 degree line, 529 for example, and you count outwards from no.1 how many cycles around the square 529 is and include no.1 in the count, you get 12 cycles. Then, including no. 1, count the next 12 odd numbers in sequential order. You end on the number 23, which is the square root of 529.

The same applies for even numbers.

I think that is enough to chew on for a while.

Hello BlueMental,

many topics at once ! I will go through the GGG thread again, but so far I had no really consistent trading results based on the MT4 version. I think that BEFORE applying the Gann Grid or anything like it ( Gann´s Angles ), we need to scale the charts, so that we have a 1x1 relationship. Thats at least what I am doing, and then if I apply the angles it just shows me the acceleration speed of price in a defined time period.

Very difficult for those with a tight budget who really sincerely want to learn and only have MT4.....

I have been reading on and off about cycles, like Lars von Thienen and the crowd at wave59 etc.

So far I have not intensified my reading or subscribed to material abobe 2K ( my usual limit ).... ( as is often the case with Gann related literature, - see the Sacred Science website or the sheer cost of using something like wave59 or Market Analyst -it is VERY EXPENSIVE ).

The only thing that worked for me in actual trade results so far - using non-conventional ideas - was Bemac`s ICCE version of Fibonacci, and the use of Angles in cheaper versions of software, like in TracknTrade or Ensign.

I am open to any suggestions and thank you for taking the time to write, I will be following everything with great interest !

Michael

Found this Sq of 9 indicator somewhere in my dusty cupboard......plus your indicator if I am correct.



Before I forget I would like to say something I have noticed this year.

The " gurus " often advise newbies - and those more inclined to trade on higher timeframes - to take a top-down approach to trading. So lets say we plot a 20 ema and then first look at Monthly, then Weekly, and then Daily - therefore implicitly stating that higher timeframes are the cause or decisive factor for lower timerframes. It is then advised to ONLY enter when the higher timeframes signal a trend change.....etc.

I noticed this year, that we had structural shifts in EURUSD, AUDUSD and USDJPY, that really shattered my belief in this approach. Why ?

( Example coming what I am trying to say )......

Thus, I went long in EURUSD very early, more or less in July, when a friend of mine who uses Bloomberg and saw the Spanish yield drop, plus Draghi`s statement " we will do whatever it takes " etc., told me : now all the institutions will go into EURUSD again.

At that same time I happened to post a chart here in FF - and more than 1 knowledgeable trader / teacher, - always applying the above mentioned top-down approach -, told me to wait, " don`t waste your funds ", we wait until the Weekly confirms etc.

That is to say, like in USDCHF way long ago, and this year in EURUSD, we had FUNDAMENTAL timing changes ( maybe now USDJPY multi-year change as well ).

The classic top-down approach is then entering very late, and although I do see the merit because it prevents newbies from losing a lot of money, in my opinion a non-conventional trading method ( be it Gann applied 2.0, Cycles, Fib advanced like Robert Miner, Astro, Median Lines etc. ) should excel in offering a unique timing element, which lets the trader " see " that there is actually a REAL structural shift happening. He will then enter and make vast amounts of money, whereas the usual trader will constantly criticize this entry and say " don´t try to pick tops and bottoms ".

I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Thanks.

Michael

EURUSD Daily....

MSMarple,

I believe it was Gann who said that "when TIME and PRICE meet, change is inevitable".

My compliments to Bluemental for starting a superb thread overall.

quin2k

Most people use the Gann square of 9.

Gann did have a cube of 9, but that is much less known. a cube of 9 is the square of 27.

I posted a few words on the Metaquotes Mql5 forum regarding the fundamental infrastructure flaw that flows through Mt4 and Mt5. That is the inconsistency of the definition of what the X-axis is. For some items it is time in seconds, for others it is barcount, yet for others it is a pixel x on the screen. The very fact that the Gann Angles, Gann Grids, and anything else that has the variable "scale" in it is limited to 2 decimal points, is just one tiny part of the problem. All the for/while loops use barcount that gets transposed to Time[x], while the 'scale' is related to minutes. On H4, under 1:1 scale, you can not even begin to see a fraction of the chart. There are Gothic towers going through the top of the clouds with no end in sight. This is due to the fact that they fail to accommodate that 1 H4 bar is actually 240 'Time units' so the true 1:1 of the H4 timeframe is actually 1:240

Not only that, there is only one way to actually get the proportional scale exact, and it is complicated. There is no scale ratio of __:__ offered where we can type in 1:240 or whatever. The only option we have is with the Max and Min per chart. So if we define Max as Y, and Min as Y-240 pips, then we are supposed to get an accurate 1:1 (I.E. 1:240) It does get close, but if you actually check a square (placed by co-ordinate and price with rectangle, or trendlines) then the 'square' is actually ever so slightly rectangular.

This occurs primarily due to the rounding of numbers to 2 decimal points. Kind of like doing quantum physics with integers. They do not see this as an issue, because they are predominantly coders and secondarily traders. We are predominantly traders and secondary coders. We code if it can help us trade better, or if we can learn something by digging in the inner workings of something.

They (Metaquotes Coders) can not come to an agreed upon conclusion of exactly what they wish to use as an X axis. The entire structural failiiure is actually quite easily solved.

An extrapolation:-

1. Denote the unit of 1X = 1 minute
2. Do all loops in X of minutes
3. Use X as minutes for trendlines/grids etc. in any timeframe as minutes and allow the program to calculate the pixel placement of bars and lines in direct relation to minutes. (in other words, though a single H4 bar is 240 minutes, the pixelation is based on the X minutes of the first minute of those 240 minutes.
4. Offer a simple 'TimeToBarcount()' feature (much the same as DoubleToString and other conversion functions.

Try mentioning to 'the powers that be' on Mql forums, and you will find that they do not want to hear that their system might have some issues.

I tried in a nice way to make a suggestion, you can follow it here:-

http://www.mql5.com/en/forum/9423

I tried in another way to offer something to the person whose arrogance is only exceeded by his ignorance with the following:

http://www.mql5.com/en/forum/9454

I now have stopped wasting my time in their forums. Deaf by choice remain deaf.


First of all, learn something of primary value, do not buy ANYTHING anymore. Dig a little deeper, find what you can that is free or shown/discussed at least in basic concepts. Realise and understand that there is no Genie/EA/Indicator/Program that can tell you when to buy or when to sell. Duh, if there was, then the financial institutions would not need any traders. They would all run on a laptop in the office while they spend time surfing in Hawaii. This in turn leads to the obvious conclusion that IF what is being offered works, (for $1000 plus) then why is the owner of that 'gem' selling it at all? They should (with the perfect trading system) have absolutely zero need for your $1k. If what they had DID allow them to double their money every month, do you really think they would tell you it existed?

You can not learn anything if you follow. A 2 year old child gets told by her mother that she must not touch the bright flowing yellow and red pattern on the candle. Her mother tells her it will burn her, that she will get blisters. Intellectual descriptions of things that the 2 year old has no experience with which to compare. What is burn to someone who has not been burned? Only once that 2 year old child TOUCHES the flame, and GETS BURNED, does anything her mother told her convert from hypothesis to experiential knowledge.

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. ( Quote from The Mechanic - Jason Statham)

You mention 'many topics' :-
I am a machine designer, manufacturer. To be that does not say what is involved with what it is. I started as a Fitter and Turner, then became a Tool and Die Maker, Then did Pneumatics and Hydraulics, then did Motor Electrical wiring and Switchwork. In Between all that I also became a coded welder and CAD designer. If I go to a site that has one of those lines that has 'intermittent faults', I walk through the plant. listen, I look, I touch a few places to feel for vibrations. This usually takes about 20 minutes. Then I tell them what is wrong in places A, B and C of their plant. I also show them where production 'bottlenecks' are in their system that cause delays or redundancy in their system.

The callouses earned over the years is what gives one this 'magic insight'. Nothing else does it. No calculations or theory fits. Only those experiences of burned fingers (trashed Trading Accounts) give one the ability to 'feel' the problem and thus 'see' the solution. What is blatantly obvious to me, to others is inconceivable and seems to border on 'magic spells' or 'divine intervention. In truth, it is nothing more than lots of sweat equity and the choice (time and time again) of 'putting my money where my mouth is.'

You will notice in the second link I gave above that you can see in the pictures a partial representation of the (not yet uploaded) Magic Moving Channel Indicator. I have not yet uploaded it (or shown pics) for one specific reason. That reason is because without you (the viewer) having at least part of the fundamental understanding of what I learned before designing the Indicator, it will be nothing more than an intellectual description of 'the flame will burn and give you blisters'.

You need to have, under your belt, the conceptual understanding through experience and hard work, of why and how the indicator works. To understand the deeply intertwined connections that make it worth something.

If, like phi.nut, who is not prepared to get his hands dirty and look deeper into a given situation, then all that is received from a new concept or mindset is derogatory and meaningless. Tolstoy rewrote 'War and Peace' nine times before he accepted it as worthy of publishing.

Don Hall spent 30 years on the concept of Pyrapoint and searching a deeper understanding of Gann's methods. These were not thirty 'idle' years. For us to have any value, is to do our best to learn all we can, so that we can spend 20 minutes looking at a chart (as Gann did) and make 80% plus profitable trades that to those at large it seems 'magical' or 'by divine intervention'.

Buying it will not get us there. Holding our hand in the flame will.

You ever been thrown in the deep end of the pool with no idea how to swim?


<EVIL GRIN>

BMILong__.mql (which is in the template) is here on this thread - at the top right of the thread you see a little 'attached symbol' with a number next to it, that gets you a window of all files attached in this thread, you can 'hide images' so you only have the mql files)

The Magic Moving Channel indicators are the MAX mq4's

They open standard with the Base MA_Mode set to 3 (SMMA) but in the template they are set to 1 (EMA)

The reason why I called the template 'overload' will be blatantly obvious when you use it. Try not to get lost, on my mq4's (except for BMILong__) you can set the ALL_ON to false, which will leave them in the chart but they will be invisible.

IMPORTANT the overload template was set to EURUSD Daily (a replica of Michaels picture) if you use it on any other currency or timeframe, it will just be a chaotic mess. (which it is anyway, but it is a well ordered chaotic mess on EurUsd D1)

Enjoy the swimming.

Hello BlueMental,

I can relate to a lot what you write because I come from a musician`s family and myself played piano and violin from age 6 to 27 for hours every day....so that relates to the difference between learning on a purely theoretical level as opposed to sweating it out and knowing then what works and what not.

I`ll keep studying and I also would like to step back a bit - I sense that there is still a lot of foundation info necessary to absorb before we can get down to Q&A.

=============

Thank you for taking the time to post all this, I have become a bit desillusioned about FF in the recent 2 years ( another story ), and then come your posts out of the tunnel of the air ( yes, pun intended ), providing a much needed fresh perspective.

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas !

Michael

Here is some food for thought.

IF and it is a big if, I ever tell you to trade, to wait, or anything like that, tell me to go to hell and to mind my own business. Now take that same statement and consider if it should be applied to anyone else that gives advice.

I question things, I try to explain how and why I think/perceive what I do so that others can understand my meaning. In doing so (the explaining etc.) it helps me clarify in my own mind what my thoughts and 'systems' are and if there are any major weaknesses(which I did not see), it comes out in the story. I do not claim to have any answers, and usually what happens is that I cause those that discuss/interact with me to question things MORE not less.

I received an offer for a trading system, I do not recall the details, you know how it goes, you get hundreds of them "Make $ 124 454 321 784.00 in 3 minutes starting with a $50 micro account", but this one was different. The guy stated that you can (using his system) make a reasonable profit if you are prepared to follow his system with diligent trading. I did not subscribe to his system, but I did read one interesting and useful piece of information.

He stated the following (the general concept, not quoting).
Many people try to trade to get huge wins, 300 pips, or 150 pips. but few people pay true attention to their win loss ratio. If I get 3 winning trades that averaged 300 pips, in other words 3 x 100 pips. Together with those wins, I get 5 losing trades averaging 60 pips, then 5 x 60 = 300. This is a break even (excluding costs and overheads).

We as traders are more interested in the wins, rather than preventing the losses.

If we have a good win/loss ratio, and we follow our rules diligently, we trade profitably. An example:-
If we open trades hoping to win 100 pips, with a SL at 50 pips, this is a 2:1 ratio. If we hope to win 100 pips with a SL of 80 pips, this is a 10:8 ratio.

So lets calculate. Using a fixed amount of Lots. We start with a 1:1 ratio (100 pips TP, 100 Pips SL)

1. Loses (-100)
2. Loses (-100) -200
3. Loses (-100) -300
4. Loses (-100) -400
5. Loses (-100) -500
6. Wins (+100) -400
7. Wins (+100) -300
8. Wins (+100) -200
9. Wins (+100) -100
10. Wins (+100) Break Even (meaning Loss after Spread/Commission removed)

5 Losses to 5 Wins = Break Even. Total risk of 10 x 100 = 1000 pips. Total possible Gain 10 x 100 = 1000 Pips


Using 2:1 ratio (100 TP, 50 SL)

1. Loses (-50)
2. Loses (-50) -100
3. Loses (-50) -150
4. Loses (-50) -200
5 Loses (-50) -250
6. Loses (-50) -300
7. Wins (+100) -200
8. Wins (+100) -100
9 Wins (+100) Break Even
10 Wins (+100) +100

6 Losses to 4 Wins Leaves us 100 pips gained. Total risk of 10 x 50 = 500 pips. Total possible Gain 10 x 100 = 1000 Pips


Using a REACHABLE ratio of 3:1 (36 TP, 12 SL)

1. Loses (-12)
2. Loses (-12) -24
3. Loses (-12) -36
4. Loses (-12) -48
5 Loses (-12) -60
6. Loses (-12) -72
7. Loses (-12) -84
8. Wins (+36) -48
9 Wins (+36) -12
10 Wins (+36) +24

7 Losses to 3 Wins leaves us 24 Pips ahead. Total risk of 10 x 12 = 120 pips. Total possible Gain 10 x 36 = 360 Pips
If the 3:1 ratio was 150:50 the figure would be 100 (2/3rds of TP) As was with 2:1.
Total risk would be of 10 x 50 = 500 pips. Total possible Gain 10 x 150 = 1500 Pips

So, by being more 'fussy' and picking choice trades where we can run the 3:1 ratio successfully (and YES we can find em!), we only have to win 3 out of 10 to be profitable.

Let us say that (being poor traders) we average 4 wins to 6 losses.

With a 100:100 that leaves us -100 pips.
With 100:50 that leaves us +100 pips
With the 12:36 that leaves us with +60 pips
if 150:50 it would be +250 pips

I used the 12:36 because it is far easier to find trades that fit that range, Gann's trades (if you read up on it) were seldom in action for longer than 25 minutes. Quick in, quick out. Not greedy Saga's to gain 400 pips.

This is what the trading system that was offered brought to my attention. Yes, we actually all already know this, but when the cards are down, how often do we follow it as a philosophy? LOL, right now I am in a long position (GbpJpy) that is 115 pips in the RED, and by the way the charts look, it is DEFINITELY going further south. It might be enough to trash (yet another) trading account.

Why? Stubborn Greed. Because by looking at the charts subjectively earlier on this last Thursday when I was 22 Pips ahead, I found a possible (not highly likely, just possible) push upwards that will reach 70 pips instead of the 20 I had. When it turned South, I managed to con myself into the (but the main trend is going up strong) and I am reasonably sure that the price will (eventually) go up above my entry point.

Is that good trading? Definitely NOT.

So it seems to be true that I (just like everyone else) falls under the same Greedy for Big Moves fallacy, rather than picking better situations with low to almost zero risk for small gain.

I (like many) find it difficult to NOT trade. It is interesting and exiting when we are trading. It is boring waiting for that nice situation. If however I want to actually trade profitably, I have to force myself (as the dude said) to diligently follow my rules.

So Michael, what I am trying to say here is that we (all of us) know that if we are just a little bit prudent with our trading, and we do some basic Money Management, we most definitely CAN make more than 3 wins to 7 losses in the 36:12 pip range!

Rather than follow the Guru's that want to 'wait for the weekly trend'. For crying in a bucket, 3 wins to 7 losses! A 2 year old can do better than that!

Just with Magic Monster Alone that is achievable. The Magic Moving Channel helps a lot, but I discovered (which is why the Fib Arcs are in the Overloaded TP) a clearer Better FREE tool that shows change points even more clearly than my long worked out methos we are trying to go through.

Check out this site:- http://www.gunner24.com/lp/gold-2c-box.html
It is Freeware, yes it does work. After you download it, download the Trading Manual as well.

I was thinking of ways of utilising the numbers/angles etc. in a 3d fashion, as opposed to using the square to get 'vertical' (price) numbers to 'horizontal' Time.

Can you share with us what you know of the cube?

I worked very hard to get my IQ up to 7 I must say! If I had one more brain cell, it would be lonely. But at least it is overqualified to be a politician.

I think I found the same hypercube thingy you speak of. It is an incredible looking thing, and I have no doubt that if one were able to study it long enough and find some way of using it mathematically, it would be able to show patterns we have not yet perceived. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-cube)

But alas poor Yorick... I am not Mandelbrot by a LONG stretch (in fact mathematically I am very weak) so I doubt I can get anything useful out of it.

The reason, by the way, that I mentioned Yorick, is because he is of the same 'era' as Socrates, who died of Hemlock poisoning. The reason he was poisoned, was because he had the audacity of teaching the peasants what he knew!
Pythagoras (who also had this crazy idea that people (yes, he thought of the peasants as people) are entitled to know and share knowledge. That in turn was why Pythagoras took exile in Egypt for 22 years.

It was in his visit (aka political asylum, aka exile from the head hunters) that he discovered the 'Egyptian Calendar' which is either the Square of Nine or based on S9. This same Square of Nine, was used to calculate the exact measurements of the pyramids that were built 2000 years prior to Pythagoras' visit. In essence, just about everything Pythagoras 'discovered' was taught to him by the Egyptians. The Pyramid of Giza, just by the way, follows Fib numbers precisely... Fibonacci was born in 1170. Pythagoras was born 570 BC The Pyramids were built 2500BC.

Just as Fibonacci (famous for the Fib Numbers) 'discovered' or 'invented' the Fib Numbers and Phi/phi. Not only that, he 'invented' the number zero. In truth, he was taught this knowledge by the Indians (Eastern, aka Asia, not America). The Roman Empire had no Zero, and their Math was very 'rural'. In a roundabout way, Fibonacci (with the number zero) marked the end of the Roman Empire.

I don't know about a 3D use of the cube of 9, just that the cube of 9 is the same as the square of 27.

Another person studying Gann's work thinks that the cube of 9 may refer to the conjunction of Jupiter and Mars which happens every 27 months. A cycle of 27 times 27 months is 729, which is the cube of 9. 9x9x9

The Great Pyramid (The Pyramid of Giza) is a 4d physical representation of the square of 9 (if viewed from the top down). So it is actually a 'cuve' of nine, as opposed to the 2d drawing of the square of nine. In truth, the pyramid is actually a representation of a sphere, and it and the 'satellite' pyramids is a physical layout (or was when it was built) of The Stars that make up Orion's Belt.

The pyramid itself (in spherical form) represents the biggest star of the Orion's Belt. Since it is also a physical 3d version of the square of nine, translated into 3d. Perhaps it is more correct to say that the 2d square of nine is a translation, or simplification of the Cube of Nine. I am absolutely certain that the 3rd dimension added to the Square of Nine has further value. The problem is that I have no idea (yet) how to access this added Math Map, for lack of better words.

I have a sneaking suspicion that by utilising the 3rd dimension, allows access to mapping, traveling or capturing energy from further dimensions.

Only now (it is just starting at the moment) are our scientists finally accepting the fact that 60% plus of our scientific theory is false. One of the 'major' ones is the truth that the 2nd law of Thermodynamics is null and void.

Something else to consider. The pyramid was originally covered with a smooth polished flat and angled limestone surface. A great earthquake damaged that surface (I do not recall exactly when, but it was +- 1400), and the Egyptian King (or whatever the correct title is) collected the fallen limestone and used it to build other religious buildings where the limestone can still be seen today.

Why I bring this up, is to bring attention to the fact that the Pyramid was not repaired. The craftsmen who built it and the skill level involved was no longer 'available'. It is doubtful that all the craftsmen died and their combined knowledge was not passed on to their children. So, what are the remaining possibilities? Perhaps they moved elsewhere. Another planet... or perhaps another dimension.

Just some food for thought.

Hi Blue

I know what the Sq of 9 look like, a sq block with the numbers in it that goes in a spiral but I don't know how to use it.

The first time I saw someone use Gann Squaring, Cycles and Geometry was from a guy here at FF named JR97 and
on his blog he shows you how to draw Gann square manually. but I never really got my head around all this gann 'stuff'.

example:
not sure if I draw it correct... but it looks good

I've download the MBTrading - Desktop Pro what must we do with it?
Is it just to show us what the Pyrapoint look like and the channels it form?

I've includede some of the charts thats on the MB forum hope you don't mind If you do i'll delete them.

Just want to make sure is this what it should look like sir?

Hi Hansie.

Yes, That is what it should look like. Those red lines I drew where the chart ends are possible paths the price will go. The trick is not in the predicting, it is in the knowing where the channels are, so that if the price changes to a new channel, you know that it usually goes at least to the bottom, or through the bottom of the resistance/support above or below it.

The Magic Moving Channels form as the price moves on, and if you load the 2 of them on a new chart, you will see it better. Also load the BothMac (the chart one). If you do not know how the prices bounce off BothMac (together they are The Magic MacD Monster) then read through this thread from the beginning.

They are also support and resistance levels.

<edit> Just a thought about the pictures, the forum have to store all those pics and we have to download them, so it is best to try keep them 'small'. The best way to do this is convert them to .png files They are the most efficient pic/zip type of picture format. You lose almost zero quality but chop a 100Kb file down to 30Kb. I use ImageShack, which also compresses the pics further. You can choose the setting when you upload the pics, I choose the 'forum' setting. Lastly, only upload 1 pic if 1 is enough to show what you mean, and only upload pics if they are needed.
Remember, if this section of the forum has 15 pictures of 100Kb each, that means every time a new post is made, our browser reloads the page. For some dumb reason, Firefox (and probably the others as well) do not keep these pics properly in a cache, so those 15 pics = 1.5 Megs of data. Reloaded 30 or 40 times... you get the picture </edit>

The other 'new' stuff in the chart is the Fib Arcs. For them to be correct, their scale has to be set right. If your broker has 4 digits instead of 5, then the scale is different. For you to check if it is correct, right click on an open area of the chart and choose properties, if there is too much on the chart (like thee is in 'overload' it sometimes only lets you get the lines or EMA properties, if that happens press F8, which will give you chart properties) then in the 'common' tab, you choose 'Scale in One to One'. zoom out to max and check if the Arcs look like half of a circle. If they look like an ellipse, the scale is wrong.

If they are wrong, you need to change the scale in the FibArcs. I'm not sure what the scale is for a 4 digit broker, but I know that it is a multiple of 10. With the 5 digit it is 10, so it might be 0.1 1 100 or 1000 (just try em all until it is right.)

Once you know you have the thing (and are sure yourself) in the right scale, for now just study everything you can see. Use your own ideas and see what the chart shows you, and try to see which way you think the price might go and why. (It looks like the scale is correct in your pic, but one of the great things with Mt4 is that a loaded scale based drawing usually follows what it was saved from, but if you change timeframes, it might NOT keep the same scale. Just for you to figure it out a bit deeper, draw an ellipse on your chart (a new chart) and also draw a new FibArc (your FibArcs get the properties of the last one you opened to change properties. If you did not open any of the templates FibArcs, you get the 'default' fibArc settings) It doesn't matter in this case.

Why I suggest you draw the ellipse and the FibArc is for you to see that to get your ellipse (with the 2 prices set to the same value and the DateTime setting the width) the scale for the ellipse needs to be 0.1 NOT 10 like the FibArc. Mt4 can't figure out a standard way of keeping scale.

Important:- if the scale is wrong, the FibArcs do not show ANY lines of resistance or support. Like the old saying about carpentry, Measure twice, cut once.